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Sin No More

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Thelema
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  • F Frater Sabaechit

    93

    Well this is history in the making, right in time for 2012.

    I believe the main thrust of Thelema is that there is no Sin.

    Here's what old man Crowley himself had to say about this:

    "Again we learn the permanence of the Nature of a Star. We are not to judge by temporary circumstances, but to penetrate to the True Nature.

    It has naturally been objected by economists that our Law, in declaring every man and every woman to be a star, reduces society to its elements, and makes hierarchy or even democracy impossible. The view is superficial. Each star has a function in its galaxy proper to its own nature. Much mischief has come from our ignorance in insisting, on the contrary, that each citizen is fit for any and every social duty. But also our Law teaches that a star often veils itself from its nature. Thus the vast bulk of humanity is obsessed by an abject fear of freedom; the principal objections hitherto urged against my Law have been those of people who cannot bear to imagine the horrors which would result if they were free to do their own wills. The sense of sin, shame, self-distrust, this is what makes folk cling to Christianity-slavery. People believe in a medicine just in so far as it is nasty; the metaphysical root of this idea is in sexual degeneracy of the masochistic type. Now "the Law is for all"; but such defectives will refuse it, and serve us who are free with a fidelity the more dog-like as the simplicity of our freedom denotes their abjection."~New Comment to AL II,58.

    "Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face -- his outward semblance -- that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us."~New Comment to AL III,52.

    "It is we of Thelema who truly love and respect Woman, who hold her sinless and shameless even as we are; and those who say that we despise Her are those who shrink from the flash of our falchions as we strike from Her limbs their foul fetters."~New Comment to AL III,55.

    Anyone?

    ~Blessed be
    In Lak'ech Ala K'in
    ~93
    Moonwolf
    Frater Sabaechit
    Ron Adams

    F Offline
    F Offline
    fraterlvf
    wrote on last edited by
    #7

    @Frater Sabaechi said

    "Now, do you believe in True Love?"

    There is a lot of semantic ambiguity in that phrase - can you please elaborate on your definition of "True Love"?

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • F Frater Sabaechit

      93

      Well this is history in the making, right in time for 2012.

      I believe the main thrust of Thelema is that there is no Sin.

      Here's what old man Crowley himself had to say about this:

      "Again we learn the permanence of the Nature of a Star. We are not to judge by temporary circumstances, but to penetrate to the True Nature.

      It has naturally been objected by economists that our Law, in declaring every man and every woman to be a star, reduces society to its elements, and makes hierarchy or even democracy impossible. The view is superficial. Each star has a function in its galaxy proper to its own nature. Much mischief has come from our ignorance in insisting, on the contrary, that each citizen is fit for any and every social duty. But also our Law teaches that a star often veils itself from its nature. Thus the vast bulk of humanity is obsessed by an abject fear of freedom; the principal objections hitherto urged against my Law have been those of people who cannot bear to imagine the horrors which would result if they were free to do their own wills. The sense of sin, shame, self-distrust, this is what makes folk cling to Christianity-slavery. People believe in a medicine just in so far as it is nasty; the metaphysical root of this idea is in sexual degeneracy of the masochistic type. Now "the Law is for all"; but such defectives will refuse it, and serve us who are free with a fidelity the more dog-like as the simplicity of our freedom denotes their abjection."~New Comment to AL II,58.

      "Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face -- his outward semblance -- that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us."~New Comment to AL III,52.

      "It is we of Thelema who truly love and respect Woman, who hold her sinless and shameless even as we are; and those who say that we despise Her are those who shrink from the flash of our falchions as we strike from Her limbs their foul fetters."~New Comment to AL III,55.

      Anyone?

      ~Blessed be
      In Lak'ech Ala K'in
      ~93
      Moonwolf
      Frater Sabaechit
      Ron Adams

      F Offline
      F Offline
      Frater Sabaechit
      wrote on last edited by
      #8

      @fraterlvf said

      "
      @Frater Sabaechi said
      "Now, do you believe in True Love?"

      There is a lot of semantic ambiguity in that phrase - can you please elaborate on your definition of "True Love"?"

      Just a phrase that I was drawn to actually because synchronistically its the title of tonight's Brotherhood episode "The course of true love never did run smooth."

      Maybe True Love is just a cliche, like finding one's true love. Maybe there is a deeper aspect of true love that is an archeptypal energy. You may or may not see where I am going with this, but I think its worth exploring people's impressions.

      My partner is my true love.

      His true love and dedication actually won the war.

      True love fostered his ambitions and made him a success.

      She lost her true love.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • F Frater Sabaechit

        93

        Well this is history in the making, right in time for 2012.

        I believe the main thrust of Thelema is that there is no Sin.

        Here's what old man Crowley himself had to say about this:

        "Again we learn the permanence of the Nature of a Star. We are not to judge by temporary circumstances, but to penetrate to the True Nature.

        It has naturally been objected by economists that our Law, in declaring every man and every woman to be a star, reduces society to its elements, and makes hierarchy or even democracy impossible. The view is superficial. Each star has a function in its galaxy proper to its own nature. Much mischief has come from our ignorance in insisting, on the contrary, that each citizen is fit for any and every social duty. But also our Law teaches that a star often veils itself from its nature. Thus the vast bulk of humanity is obsessed by an abject fear of freedom; the principal objections hitherto urged against my Law have been those of people who cannot bear to imagine the horrors which would result if they were free to do their own wills. The sense of sin, shame, self-distrust, this is what makes folk cling to Christianity-slavery. People believe in a medicine just in so far as it is nasty; the metaphysical root of this idea is in sexual degeneracy of the masochistic type. Now "the Law is for all"; but such defectives will refuse it, and serve us who are free with a fidelity the more dog-like as the simplicity of our freedom denotes their abjection."~New Comment to AL II,58.

        "Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face -- his outward semblance -- that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us."~New Comment to AL III,52.

        "It is we of Thelema who truly love and respect Woman, who hold her sinless and shameless even as we are; and those who say that we despise Her are those who shrink from the flash of our falchions as we strike from Her limbs their foul fetters."~New Comment to AL III,55.

        Anyone?

        ~Blessed be
        In Lak'ech Ala K'in
        ~93
        Moonwolf
        Frater Sabaechit
        Ron Adams

        F Offline
        F Offline
        fraterlvf
        wrote on last edited by
        #9

        @Frater Sabaechi said

        "Maybe True Love is just a cliche, like finding one's true love. Maybe there is a deeper aspect of true love that is an archeptypal energy. You may or may not see where I am going with this, but I think its worth exploring people's impressions."

        Nope, I really don't. I am going to retire from this thread, as I believe that it is something of a ramble.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • F Frater Sabaechit

          93

          Well this is history in the making, right in time for 2012.

          I believe the main thrust of Thelema is that there is no Sin.

          Here's what old man Crowley himself had to say about this:

          "Again we learn the permanence of the Nature of a Star. We are not to judge by temporary circumstances, but to penetrate to the True Nature.

          It has naturally been objected by economists that our Law, in declaring every man and every woman to be a star, reduces society to its elements, and makes hierarchy or even democracy impossible. The view is superficial. Each star has a function in its galaxy proper to its own nature. Much mischief has come from our ignorance in insisting, on the contrary, that each citizen is fit for any and every social duty. But also our Law teaches that a star often veils itself from its nature. Thus the vast bulk of humanity is obsessed by an abject fear of freedom; the principal objections hitherto urged against my Law have been those of people who cannot bear to imagine the horrors which would result if they were free to do their own wills. The sense of sin, shame, self-distrust, this is what makes folk cling to Christianity-slavery. People believe in a medicine just in so far as it is nasty; the metaphysical root of this idea is in sexual degeneracy of the masochistic type. Now "the Law is for all"; but such defectives will refuse it, and serve us who are free with a fidelity the more dog-like as the simplicity of our freedom denotes their abjection."~New Comment to AL II,58.

          "Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face -- his outward semblance -- that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us."~New Comment to AL III,52.

          "It is we of Thelema who truly love and respect Woman, who hold her sinless and shameless even as we are; and those who say that we despise Her are those who shrink from the flash of our falchions as we strike from Her limbs their foul fetters."~New Comment to AL III,55.

          Anyone?

          ~Blessed be
          In Lak'ech Ala K'in
          ~93
          Moonwolf
          Frater Sabaechit
          Ron Adams

          F Offline
          F Offline
          Frater Sabaechit
          wrote on last edited by
          #10

          @fraterlvf said

          "
          @Frater Sabaechi said
          "Maybe True Love is just a cliche, like finding one's true love. Maybe there is a deeper aspect of true love that is an archeptypal energy. You may or may not see where I am going with this, but I think its worth exploring people's impressions."

          Nope, I really don't. I am going to retire from this thread, as I believe that it is something of a ramble."

          Well I see your point and respect your retiring from this thread. I understand that it might appear a ramble for you, but for me I approach it in a spirit of inquiry.

          One question I might ask, if the phrase True Love appears as a semantic ambiguity, why doesn't True Will? Or does it?

          And perhaps this relates to what I was getting at with this thread's original premise about Sin No More. Maybe we don't have a word for such a state? Bliss? Enlightenment? Well then, maybe we don't have a Western word for what it means to live with No Sin. Perfection just doesnt' come close as it implies more ambiguity.

          Anyone else?

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • F Frater Sabaechit

            93

            Well this is history in the making, right in time for 2012.

            I believe the main thrust of Thelema is that there is no Sin.

            Here's what old man Crowley himself had to say about this:

            "Again we learn the permanence of the Nature of a Star. We are not to judge by temporary circumstances, but to penetrate to the True Nature.

            It has naturally been objected by economists that our Law, in declaring every man and every woman to be a star, reduces society to its elements, and makes hierarchy or even democracy impossible. The view is superficial. Each star has a function in its galaxy proper to its own nature. Much mischief has come from our ignorance in insisting, on the contrary, that each citizen is fit for any and every social duty. But also our Law teaches that a star often veils itself from its nature. Thus the vast bulk of humanity is obsessed by an abject fear of freedom; the principal objections hitherto urged against my Law have been those of people who cannot bear to imagine the horrors which would result if they were free to do their own wills. The sense of sin, shame, self-distrust, this is what makes folk cling to Christianity-slavery. People believe in a medicine just in so far as it is nasty; the metaphysical root of this idea is in sexual degeneracy of the masochistic type. Now "the Law is for all"; but such defectives will refuse it, and serve us who are free with a fidelity the more dog-like as the simplicity of our freedom denotes their abjection."~New Comment to AL II,58.

            "Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face -- his outward semblance -- that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us."~New Comment to AL III,52.

            "It is we of Thelema who truly love and respect Woman, who hold her sinless and shameless even as we are; and those who say that we despise Her are those who shrink from the flash of our falchions as we strike from Her limbs their foul fetters."~New Comment to AL III,55.

            Anyone?

            ~Blessed be
            In Lak'ech Ala K'in
            ~93
            Moonwolf
            Frater Sabaechit
            Ron Adams

            A Offline
            A Offline
            Aum418
            wrote on last edited by
            #11

            @Frater Sabaechi said

            "One question I might ask, if the phrase True Love appears as a semantic ambiguity, why doesn't True Will? Or does it?"

            Maybe becuase the phrase 'True Love' is used often in many contexts and you just threw it out there while True Will has its many explanations by Crowley in multiple places...

            This thread indeed seems to be an irrelevant rambling like the Crystal skulls thread, but thats just my opinion.

            "And perhaps this relates to what I was getting at with this thread's original premise about Sin No More. Maybe we don't have a word for such a state? Bliss? Enlightenment? Well then, maybe we don't have a Western word for what it means to live with No Sin. Perfection just doesnt' come close as it implies more ambiguity."

            Maybe its just called normality? Viewing the world as plagued by sin should become the exception, not the norm, I think.

            IAO131

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • F Frater Sabaechit

              93

              Well this is history in the making, right in time for 2012.

              I believe the main thrust of Thelema is that there is no Sin.

              Here's what old man Crowley himself had to say about this:

              "Again we learn the permanence of the Nature of a Star. We are not to judge by temporary circumstances, but to penetrate to the True Nature.

              It has naturally been objected by economists that our Law, in declaring every man and every woman to be a star, reduces society to its elements, and makes hierarchy or even democracy impossible. The view is superficial. Each star has a function in its galaxy proper to its own nature. Much mischief has come from our ignorance in insisting, on the contrary, that each citizen is fit for any and every social duty. But also our Law teaches that a star often veils itself from its nature. Thus the vast bulk of humanity is obsessed by an abject fear of freedom; the principal objections hitherto urged against my Law have been those of people who cannot bear to imagine the horrors which would result if they were free to do their own wills. The sense of sin, shame, self-distrust, this is what makes folk cling to Christianity-slavery. People believe in a medicine just in so far as it is nasty; the metaphysical root of this idea is in sexual degeneracy of the masochistic type. Now "the Law is for all"; but such defectives will refuse it, and serve us who are free with a fidelity the more dog-like as the simplicity of our freedom denotes their abjection."~New Comment to AL II,58.

              "Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face -- his outward semblance -- that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us."~New Comment to AL III,52.

              "It is we of Thelema who truly love and respect Woman, who hold her sinless and shameless even as we are; and those who say that we despise Her are those who shrink from the flash of our falchions as we strike from Her limbs their foul fetters."~New Comment to AL III,55.

              Anyone?

              ~Blessed be
              In Lak'ech Ala K'in
              ~93
              Moonwolf
              Frater Sabaechit
              Ron Adams

              F Offline
              F Offline
              Frater Sabaechit
              wrote on last edited by
              #12

              @Aum418 said

              "
              @Frater Sabaechi said
              "One question I might ask, if the phrase True Love appears as a semantic ambiguity, why doesn't True Will? Or does it?"

              Maybe becuase the phrase 'True Love' is used often in many contexts and you just threw it out there while True Will has its many explanations by Crowley in multiple places...

              This thread indeed seems to be an irrelevant rambling like the Crystal skulls thread, but thats just my opinion.

              "And perhaps this relates to what I was getting at with this thread's original premise about Sin No More. Maybe we don't have a word for such a state? Bliss? Enlightenment? Well then, maybe we don't have a Western word for what it means to live with No Sin. Perfection just doesnt' come close as it implies more ambiguity."

              Maybe its just called normality? Viewing the world as plagued by sin should become the exception, not the norm, I think.

              IAO131"

              Well with all due respect I didn't just throw it out there. And I don't believe this world is normal just because religions and politics think humans are flawed.

              Why should I just treat the phrase True Will as exceptional just because Crowley said so? Why should the Book of the Law be considered exceptional say just as much or more than the Tao Te Ching?

              To just accept something because some authority type says its true is still blind faith, which to me is part of the old Aeonic stuff.

              Since I was offering FiliusBeastia some links to track down to get more information on the Crystal Skull, I see no reason in you lumping this thread and that thread together as irrelevant. Its ok for me if it isn't relevant to you. Do people really get anywhere in their discoveries and personal inquiries just based merely on agreement? I doubt it.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • F Frater Sabaechit

                93

                Well this is history in the making, right in time for 2012.

                I believe the main thrust of Thelema is that there is no Sin.

                Here's what old man Crowley himself had to say about this:

                "Again we learn the permanence of the Nature of a Star. We are not to judge by temporary circumstances, but to penetrate to the True Nature.

                It has naturally been objected by economists that our Law, in declaring every man and every woman to be a star, reduces society to its elements, and makes hierarchy or even democracy impossible. The view is superficial. Each star has a function in its galaxy proper to its own nature. Much mischief has come from our ignorance in insisting, on the contrary, that each citizen is fit for any and every social duty. But also our Law teaches that a star often veils itself from its nature. Thus the vast bulk of humanity is obsessed by an abject fear of freedom; the principal objections hitherto urged against my Law have been those of people who cannot bear to imagine the horrors which would result if they were free to do their own wills. The sense of sin, shame, self-distrust, this is what makes folk cling to Christianity-slavery. People believe in a medicine just in so far as it is nasty; the metaphysical root of this idea is in sexual degeneracy of the masochistic type. Now "the Law is for all"; but such defectives will refuse it, and serve us who are free with a fidelity the more dog-like as the simplicity of our freedom denotes their abjection."~New Comment to AL II,58.

                "Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face -- his outward semblance -- that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us."~New Comment to AL III,52.

                "It is we of Thelema who truly love and respect Woman, who hold her sinless and shameless even as we are; and those who say that we despise Her are those who shrink from the flash of our falchions as we strike from Her limbs their foul fetters."~New Comment to AL III,55.

                Anyone?

                ~Blessed be
                In Lak'ech Ala K'in
                ~93
                Moonwolf
                Frater Sabaechit
                Ron Adams

                J Offline
                J Offline
                Jim Eshelman
                wrote on last edited by
                #13

                @Frater Sabaechi said

                "Why should I just treat the phrase True Will as exceptional just because Crowley said so?"

                No reason at all... unless you identify yourself as a Thelemite and/or want to discuss Thelemic matters in a group setting such as this.

                "Why should the Book of the Law be considered exceptional say just as much or more than the Tao Te Ching?"

                No reason at all... unless you identify yourself as a Thelemite. (The Book of the Law and its message really is kind of what the whole Thelemic thing is about, eh?)

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • F Frater Sabaechit

                  93

                  Well this is history in the making, right in time for 2012.

                  I believe the main thrust of Thelema is that there is no Sin.

                  Here's what old man Crowley himself had to say about this:

                  "Again we learn the permanence of the Nature of a Star. We are not to judge by temporary circumstances, but to penetrate to the True Nature.

                  It has naturally been objected by economists that our Law, in declaring every man and every woman to be a star, reduces society to its elements, and makes hierarchy or even democracy impossible. The view is superficial. Each star has a function in its galaxy proper to its own nature. Much mischief has come from our ignorance in insisting, on the contrary, that each citizen is fit for any and every social duty. But also our Law teaches that a star often veils itself from its nature. Thus the vast bulk of humanity is obsessed by an abject fear of freedom; the principal objections hitherto urged against my Law have been those of people who cannot bear to imagine the horrors which would result if they were free to do their own wills. The sense of sin, shame, self-distrust, this is what makes folk cling to Christianity-slavery. People believe in a medicine just in so far as it is nasty; the metaphysical root of this idea is in sexual degeneracy of the masochistic type. Now "the Law is for all"; but such defectives will refuse it, and serve us who are free with a fidelity the more dog-like as the simplicity of our freedom denotes their abjection."~New Comment to AL II,58.

                  "Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face -- his outward semblance -- that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us."~New Comment to AL III,52.

                  "It is we of Thelema who truly love and respect Woman, who hold her sinless and shameless even as we are; and those who say that we despise Her are those who shrink from the flash of our falchions as we strike from Her limbs their foul fetters."~New Comment to AL III,55.

                  Anyone?

                  ~Blessed be
                  In Lak'ech Ala K'in
                  ~93
                  Moonwolf
                  Frater Sabaechit
                  Ron Adams

                  F Offline
                  F Offline
                  Frater Sabaechit
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #14

                  @Jim Eshelman said

                  "
                  @Frater Sabaechi said
                  "Why should I just treat the phrase True Will as exceptional just because Crowley said so?"

                  No reason at all... unless you identify yourself as a Thelemite and/or want to discuss Thelemic matters in a group setting such as this.

                  "Why should the Book of the Law be considered exceptional say just as much or more than the Tao Te Ching?"

                  No reason at all... unless you identify yourself as a Thelemite. (The Book of the Law and its message really is kind of what the whole Thelemic thing is about, eh?)"

                  Yes, I do consider myself a Thelemite and have been since 1984. I am seeing Thelema as something more than just a dogma and just something to follow.

                  I mean even though Frater Achad questioned the Great Beast, doesn't mean that he didn't go on to do his part to expand the New Aeon.

                  I believe Thelema is an organic attempt to look at the world and universe in a fresh, expanded way, maybe kinda like Quantum Physics (which has developed since 1904 too). But yes, I do get your point and I am not implying that this is not a thelemic group, just asking questions in this thread to extrapolate on my ideas.

                  If there is no sin, then what wrong do people really do to one another? I rather see it as each of us grappling and exploring to find our place in the universe, aka our true will and true love.

                  I came over here and joined because of being told what a great group this was. It seems that you've done a good job, even with the cult of personalities and the threater of the absurd in our world today.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • F Frater Sabaechit

                    93

                    Well this is history in the making, right in time for 2012.

                    I believe the main thrust of Thelema is that there is no Sin.

                    Here's what old man Crowley himself had to say about this:

                    "Again we learn the permanence of the Nature of a Star. We are not to judge by temporary circumstances, but to penetrate to the True Nature.

                    It has naturally been objected by economists that our Law, in declaring every man and every woman to be a star, reduces society to its elements, and makes hierarchy or even democracy impossible. The view is superficial. Each star has a function in its galaxy proper to its own nature. Much mischief has come from our ignorance in insisting, on the contrary, that each citizen is fit for any and every social duty. But also our Law teaches that a star often veils itself from its nature. Thus the vast bulk of humanity is obsessed by an abject fear of freedom; the principal objections hitherto urged against my Law have been those of people who cannot bear to imagine the horrors which would result if they were free to do their own wills. The sense of sin, shame, self-distrust, this is what makes folk cling to Christianity-slavery. People believe in a medicine just in so far as it is nasty; the metaphysical root of this idea is in sexual degeneracy of the masochistic type. Now "the Law is for all"; but such defectives will refuse it, and serve us who are free with a fidelity the more dog-like as the simplicity of our freedom denotes their abjection."~New Comment to AL II,58.

                    "Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face -- his outward semblance -- that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us."~New Comment to AL III,52.

                    "It is we of Thelema who truly love and respect Woman, who hold her sinless and shameless even as we are; and those who say that we despise Her are those who shrink from the flash of our falchions as we strike from Her limbs their foul fetters."~New Comment to AL III,55.

                    Anyone?

                    ~Blessed be
                    In Lak'ech Ala K'in
                    ~93
                    Moonwolf
                    Frater Sabaechit
                    Ron Adams

                    S Offline
                    S Offline
                    Sphynx
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #15

                    Crowley also wrote: "The only sin in the universe is collision."

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                    • F Frater Sabaechit

                      93

                      Well this is history in the making, right in time for 2012.

                      I believe the main thrust of Thelema is that there is no Sin.

                      Here's what old man Crowley himself had to say about this:

                      "Again we learn the permanence of the Nature of a Star. We are not to judge by temporary circumstances, but to penetrate to the True Nature.

                      It has naturally been objected by economists that our Law, in declaring every man and every woman to be a star, reduces society to its elements, and makes hierarchy or even democracy impossible. The view is superficial. Each star has a function in its galaxy proper to its own nature. Much mischief has come from our ignorance in insisting, on the contrary, that each citizen is fit for any and every social duty. But also our Law teaches that a star often veils itself from its nature. Thus the vast bulk of humanity is obsessed by an abject fear of freedom; the principal objections hitherto urged against my Law have been those of people who cannot bear to imagine the horrors which would result if they were free to do their own wills. The sense of sin, shame, self-distrust, this is what makes folk cling to Christianity-slavery. People believe in a medicine just in so far as it is nasty; the metaphysical root of this idea is in sexual degeneracy of the masochistic type. Now "the Law is for all"; but such defectives will refuse it, and serve us who are free with a fidelity the more dog-like as the simplicity of our freedom denotes their abjection."~New Comment to AL II,58.

                      "Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face -- his outward semblance -- that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us."~New Comment to AL III,52.

                      "It is we of Thelema who truly love and respect Woman, who hold her sinless and shameless even as we are; and those who say that we despise Her are those who shrink from the flash of our falchions as we strike from Her limbs their foul fetters."~New Comment to AL III,55.

                      Anyone?

                      ~Blessed be
                      In Lak'ech Ala K'in
                      ~93
                      Moonwolf
                      Frater Sabaechit
                      Ron Adams

                      J Offline
                      J Offline
                      Jim Eshelman
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #16

                      @Sphynx said

                      "Crowley also wrote: "The only sin in the universe is collision.""

                      IIRC he said that about crime, not sin.

                      The Book of the Law is quite clear: There is sin in the Thelemic worldview, and its nature is restriction.

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