Tzaddi is not the Star
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@Wizardiaoan said
"I do not think Crowley interpreted Tzaddi being "not the Star" correct, as I state in my original post. This finding in 1999 made me receive a book of the "correct" English names for the Trumps, as well as an expansion of the Trumps to a 30-fold system; it is called Liber DCLXVI Satan."
Just curious - how did you "receive" Liber DCLXVI. I'm asking for a detailed explanation of your manner or receiving this text.
Also why did you name it 666 Satan?
PS: I tried to download your ebook but the file didn't have a file type (ie. what type of a file is it?)
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In trying to understand the Mystery are we allowing for a living science? Would attributions change with the Aeon? Each student in their Aeon, place and culture comes to understand in a way that fits them. A living corpus of knowledge would change as all living things change. Yes? The name "Tree of Life" may be more than it seems. A living tree, growing, changing etc...
Currently thinking of memes
Tantraman -
@Scarecrow said
"Just curious - how did you "receive" Liber DCLXVI. I'm asking for a detailed explanation of your manner or receiving this text. Also why did you name it 666 Satan?"
It began as an automatic writing session listing new creative names for the Tarot Keys. The process is detailed ad nauseum in my document. I changed the documents to word docs and they should all open now in proper format. I call it received due to the inspiration of the time, but changes were made through about a month. Also one change was made nearly a year later.
666 Satan is used for a few reasons. I was interpreting the tablet of Tarot names as a type of stele 718 as 359/359; that there is a macrocosmic Satan as universal Creator, the human being the microcosmic Satan. The full title is "Liber DCLXVI Satan by Satan The Phosphorescent Magus". The 30 Keys form the Body of Satan. Key 30 is named Satan. Its sigil, like the water waves of Aquarius, I posited as the 4774 sword. 47+74 = 121 = SATAN spelt in full in Hebrew as 11x11. Satan by equalling 121 in full I think is proven to be one of the most potent God Names in the universe.
666 are the Keys as kalas of light, the divisions of light and energy. 666 equals THE FISH, my Key 14. 666 = LOVE + WILL. I think "666 Satan" basically represents the lightening flash of inspiration, which is communication from the macrocosm.
In the verse it says "my prophet shall reveal it to the wise". I think Liber Legis is speaking of a future prophet here.
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@Scarecrow said
"The light descends on the Emperor from the upper right corner, and he is looking away from it.
The woman in the Star card pours water from the upper right corner where she looks directly into the vessel of liquid (light?)
Could this explain the significance of the switch?
I'm feasting on the idea that the Emperor has an HGA on his shoulder telling him what to do... and the Star is the HGA looking forward directly into the realm of possibilities and transforming them to her will.
Food for thought - other ideas are most welcome..."
Isn't the direction of the Emperor's light considered a remnant of the pre-switch position and the reference to it (Book of Thoth account of the Emperor last paragraph P78 of the Weiser edition) considered a famous "error" or oversight by AC?
He refers it to the "Word" as white light descending from Chokmah to Tiph'areth. (I've always thought of the incarnation of a divine avatar, a "Word made Flesh" as part of the symbolism of that path).
Taking that implied placement at face value, AC is at the same time insistent that the Emperor is Tzaddi. The only way we can reconcile those two seemingly incompatible statements is to monkey with the order of the letters on the Tree. Put Tzaddi up with the Emperor on the Chokmah-Tiph'areth path and Heh with the Star on the 28th path (Netsach-Yesod). Bear with me, I'm just experimenting here.
I notice immediately that the three paths converging on Yesod from above are HRS...No, can't be a piece of "Horus" symbolism, surely, there'd be a Vau in there somewhere. (Why did those Greeks and Romans tack supurious S's onto the end of words from other languages? Osiris, Horus, Elias, Jesus, Ozymandias...).
I'm glad to see, in passing, that DuQuette (and probably other sources he's relying on) agree with an intuitive image I've always had of the Samekh path as the arrow of Sagittarius, to do in one of my perspectives, with those moments (well known to a journalist) when apparent contradictions suddenly clarify and you can see the way ahead and the "target" clearly.
“The path of Samekh, like the arrow of Sagittarius, pierces the rainbow veil of Paroketh and shoots up the middle pillar to Tiphereth, the abode of the Holy Guardian Angel“" - The Magick of Aleister Crowley, P124.
Perhaps we can see Horus rather as the bowman, tensing those H,R bowstrings and firing an arrow into the heart of the old Aeon....
Gematria: The three Yesod paths, HRS = 265 and the corresponding three paths converging from above on Tiph’areth are GZTs = 100.
Looks as though a year is being divided here. Quick calculation; the 100th day of a 365-day year is – April 10; Ra Hoor Khuit day! But hey, wait a minute; 1904 was a leap year, which makes the 100th day Hadit Day and means 365 is not relevant. Perhaps we can say 100 days, then the day of revelation of Ra Hoor Khuit, then the remaining 265 days (I’m reluctant to let go of this “insight”
).More generally, we have seen in recent decades a replacement of the former respect for aristocracy by celebrity worship, even to the coining of the term “celebthority”. The “star” has in a real sense, replaced the “emperor”; and royalty are in turn driven to assume a celebrity mask in order to get their share of “air time”.
I’m very surprised too that there are so few juxtapositions of AL 1:3 with Andy Warhol’s famous quote about universal “stardom”.
www.quotationreference.com/quotefinder.php?strt=1&subj=Fame&bys=1&subind=1&lrJust floating ideas here; like AC's nursery-rhyme "Interlude" in Book 4, I don't think this is a serious argument...but you never know
OP
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@Oliver P said
"Quick calculation; the 100th day of a 365-day year is – April 10; Ra Hoor Khuit day! But hey, wait a minute; 1904 was a leap year, which makes the 100th day Hadit Day and means 365 is not relevant."
Hadit isn't without some Horus/solar symbolism, too. The Behedet mistranslation has been done to death in various online forums, but the simple symbol of the point at the center of the circle can be thought of as the Sun at the center, and the Earth's (365-day) circular orbit around it, no?
"Perhaps we can say 100 days, then the day of revelation of Ra Hoor Khuit, then the remaining 265 days (I’m reluctant to let go of this “insight”
)."I don't blame you! It's a neat insight. I've been known to harp on my own meager calendrical discoveries from time to time...
This also reminds me of Paul Foster Case's assertion that the Rosicrucian "Day C" might be celebrated on the 100th day after the vernal equinox. (C being Roman numeral 100.) This would put Cay C around June 28, which is on the border of the time period in which Corpus Christi may fall (to keep the Golden Dawn's choice of "Vault consecration day" from being totally irrelevant???)
Steve
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Here's a question I've been considering recently about this.
I know some authors look at the Tarot like a "tale" of manifestation starting from the Fool and ending up with the World. I know BOTA has a scheme called the Tarot Tableau, where the Fool is taken out, leaving 3 rows of 7 cards in consecutive order. The Emperor comes early on (obviously, #4) and is interpreted as an early stage of development.
Why would the Thoth tarot not relabel the Emperor's card number as 17, and the Star as 4? Isn't that only fair, to keep with the order of Path attributions? Weren't the card numbers of Strength and Justice swapped in the original tarot?
If my memory is correct, Crowley wrote in the Book of Thoth about this tzaddi-heh switching putting 3 goddess figures together: Priestess (2), Empress (3) , Star (therefore, 4) , which would imply the cards' numbers should also be swapped.
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@Escarabaj said
"I know BOTA has a scheme called the Tarot Tableau, where the Fool is taken out, leaving 3 rows of 7 cards in consecutive order. The Emperor comes early on (obviously, #4) and is interpreted as an early stage of development.
Why would the Thoth tarot not relabel the Emperor's card number as 17, and the Star as 4? Isn't that only fair, to keep with the order of Path attributions? Weren't the card numbers of Strength and Justice swapped in the original tarot?"
Thelema has a similar tableau - in fact, it's the document that, I suspect, gave PFC the idea for his.
It's in Liber Tav, where the Hebrew letters Aleph through Shin are in three right-to-left rows and the whole is subsumed within the Tav. Comparisons to the 'hold Aleph out, and right left-to-right' BOTA variation are quite fruitful.
Your question cuts right to the root of a basic misunderstanding. You are asking Why aren't the Tarot card numbers kept consistent with the Hebrew letter sequence? That was a hard one for me, too, until I realized that in the whole of Tarot's history this was never the case except when Waite and Case separately tried to shoehorn it into being by reversing the numbers on cards 8 and 11. Other than with Waite and Case forced-fixes, for centuries 8 has been Justice/Libra (etc.), and 11 has been Leo/Strength (etc.), and that already breaks the pattern.
The necessary conclusion is that the two sequences tell a different story. The Tarot trump numbers tell of one sequential story (usually taken 0 throgh 21); the Paths tell a different sequential story (usually taken Tav through Aleph).
Additionally, each card has two numbers - its Hebrew letter and its face number - and these together communicate certain doctrines about the card. To give simple examples, with The Emperor, both 90 (Tzaddi) and 4 (face number) describe the same idea: a square. With the Star, 5 (Heh) represents a pentagram and 17 (face value) is coded to a traditional form of the whirling svastika.
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JAE,
That was such an excellent answer.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333 -
@Jim Eshelman said
"Other than with Waite and Case forced-fixes, for centuries 8 has been Justice/Libra (etc.), and 11 has been Leo/Strength (etc.), and that already breaks the pattern."
That line of reasoning cuts no ice with some TdM aficionados, who are insistent that the old image of Justice is a representation of the Archangel Michael and therefore Leo. And the Strength card is a balance of opposites working togther and therefore relates to Libra. That way there would be no disturbance of either the Tarot card sequence or the Hebrew alphabet. (Given that Heh and Tzaddi keep their old places too.)
I prefer the Justice/Libra, Strength/Leo correspondence, but I can also see how it works from the TdM perspective as well.
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@Her said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Other than with Waite and Case forced-fixes, for centuries 8 has been Justice/Libra (etc.), and 11 has been Leo/Strength (etc.), and that already breaks the pattern."That line of reasoning cuts no ice with some TdM aficionados, who are insistent that the old image of Justice is a representation of the Archangel Michael and therefore Leo. And the Strength card is a balance of opposites working togther and therefore relates to Libra. That way there would be no disturbance of either the Tarot card sequence or the Hebrew alphabet. (Given that Heh and Tzaddi keep their old places too.)
I prefer the Justice/Libra, Strength/Leo correspondence, but I can also see how it works from the TdM perspective as well."
Well, personally I don't give a fig whether it cuts ice with them. My job is to deliver the teaching and explain the system.
What is TdM?
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@Her said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"What is TdM?"TdM - Tarot de Marseilles."
Ah. Thanks.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"The necessary conclusion is that the two sequences tell a different story. The Tarot trump numbers tell of one sequential story (usually taken 0 throgh 21); the Paths tell a different sequential story (usually taken Tav through Aleph)."
This has long been a source of befuddlement and bewilderment to my benighted mind. In the first sequence, the Fool is the unenlightened soul at the beginning of its long journey, and the World is the "Crown of the Magi", the reward at the end. But in the second sequence, you begin with the World, where it then represents the material world or the base lead to be turned into gold, and the Fool is the highest manifestation of spirit before it blinks out into Union with God. I have a hard time reconciling the two views.
@Jim Eshelman said
"both 90 (Tzaddi) and 4 (face number) describe the same idea: a square"
How do you get a square out of 90?
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@Jim Eshelman said
"... in the whole of Tarot's history this was never the case except when Waite and Case separately tried to shoehorn it into being by reversing the numbers on cards 8 and 11. Other than with Waite and Case forced-fixes, for centuries 8 has been Justice/Libra (etc.), and 11 has been Leo/Strength (etc.), and that already breaks the pattern."
Oh, and maybe this is the place to record an observation I made the other day. (I'd call this my two cents, but probably this is worth no more than one cent.)
In the Vision and the Voice, LIL, there is a paragraph about the tarot (which, to be sure, a footnote in my edition calls "quite spurious, a vague and false reflection of the true voice") beginning with the words, "Thou shalt laugh at the folly of the fool." This paragraph puts Strength in the position 8 and Justice in position 11 (counting the Fool as zero).
It also partitions the trumps into a group of 8 (0 - 7) a group of 9 (8 - 16), a group of 4 (17 - 20), and the World at the end.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Well, personally I don't give a fig whether it cuts ice with them. My job is to deliver the teaching and explain the system."
Really? I find it more rewarding to go after the Truth of things, rather than just deliver another's teachings (that is, without any care if they carry Truth or not).
I myself as well do not find Crowley's teaching, nor your regurgitation of it, very enlightening on this matter. Here is a bit of a comment on Crowley's order:
First note that there is a flaw in logic to assume two Hebrew letters are out of place. Nuit states “All these old letters of my Book are aright; but Tz is not the Star.” To switch the two letters of Heh and Tzaddi of the Hebrew alphabet around, such as to put Tzaddi in the 5th place and Heh in the 18th place is logically incompatible with the statement “All these old letters of my Book are aright” portion of the verse, as by so doing two letters are misplaced and thus not “aright” by definition. One can superficially get around this by sticking with the common serial progression of the Hebrew Alphabet, and switching their corresponding Tarot attributions to where Heh = Aquarius and Tzaddi = Aries. The two options are:5 = Heh = Key IV The Star = Aquarius, & 18, 90 = Tzaddi = Key XVII The King = Aries, or
5 = Heh = Key XVII The Star = Aquarius, & 18, 90 = Tzaddi = Key IV The King = Aries.*The first assigns Heh to Aquarius as Key IV The Star, then assigns Tzaddi to Aries as Key XVII The King. This does not seem sensible to me as now the common order of the zodiac is out of place as it unfolds through the Hebrew letters, the first zodiac sign being now Aquarius as Heh rather than Aries. Also now Aries is stuck in between Capricorn and Pisces, which seems out of place to me.
*The second assigns Heh to Aquarius as Key XVII The Star of the Tarot, then assigns Tzaddi to Aries as Key IV The King. This enables the Tarot to retain its sequential order of traditional names, but one is still assigning Heh to Aquarius and Tzaddi to Aries. Thus Key IV The King of the Tarot is assigned to Tzaddi, which is just incongruent with the place value positions of the Tarot compared to the Hebrew alphabet.
Both of the above attribution sets skew either the common order of the Hebrew alphabet or the traditional Tarot order, and I maintain that each must logically fit over each other according to place value. So if we accept that “all these old letters of my Book aright” implies the Hebrew alphabet is in its correct alignment to place value, the only option within Crowley’s vein of thought is to switch the traditional Tarot attributions where Aquarius becomes Key IV in the 5th place as Heh and Aries beomes Key XVII in the 18th place as Tzaddi (again if we use my interpretation of the Tarot as an Alphabet Order that must overlay the Hebrew Alphabet).However as I above detail (in my original posts), I deny that this is the logical intent of the verse in the first place: that Nuit is rather implying that the Tarot name of Tzaddi = Aquarius is not “The Star,” not that any attributions need switched. To recap briefly I think the English names are what Nuit is referring to, and that Tzaddi as Aquarius is "The Sun" as Qoph as Pisces is "The Moon," with Resh as Sun being "The Star." The sequence has a nice flow to it:
THE SUN = Aquarius
THE MOON = Pisces
THE STAR = SunThus I switch the common Names of Keys XVII & XIX for my preferred solution (as well as others as contained in my Liber DCLXVI).
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@Wizardiaoan said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Well, personally I don't give a fig whether it cuts ice with them. My job is to deliver the teaching and explain the system."Really? I find it more rewarding to go after the Truth of things, rather than just deliver another's teachings (that is, without any care if they carry Truth or not)."
Obviously there is an interrelationship. But we likely have different jobs. Mine is to deliver a specific body of teachings to accomplish a particular, predictable set of results.
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Speaking of which, Eschelman, any chance you'll take a crack at a follow up book which details Crowley's writings on, about, and for the grades 8=3 and up?
I understand that work in the highest grades of the A:.A:. system might be more secretive (?), but Crowley has a bunch to say on the grades scattered throughout his writings, (like the bit about a person being able to attain the level of Magus in his system and how that works within the structure of the current Aeon as he defines it), and I really appreciated your work and effort to provide a reference source and interprative piece which has helped me to better grasp the lower/middle grades... so I think we'd all benefit if someone with your inner knowledge put together a piece for the higher grades. Crowley can be tough, especially because his ideas developed over time, and because he wrote sooooo much that bits about a magus are scattered over this liber, that book, and these diarys, etc. Maybe even include The Urn??? etc.
For the Ips-I-missed, you could include his bit from his autobiography, etc. and maybe give an interpretation on why he wasn't telling anyone but Leah (was it?)... and what it might mean... and how the Fool Atu might imply it.
I really enjoy your "blue book", and would be more than happy to shell out some hard earned dough for the companion piece?
So...
any chance? Make some money and some people happy
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@gmugmble said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"The necessary conclusion is that the two sequences tell a different story. The Tarot trump numbers tell of one sequential story (usually taken 0 throgh 21); the Paths tell a different sequential story (usually taken Tav through Aleph)."This has long been a source of befuddlement and bewilderment to my benighted mind. In the first sequence, the Fool is the unenlightened soul at the beginning of its long journey, and the World is the "Crown of the Magi", the reward at the end. But in the second sequence, you begin with the World, where it then represents the material world or the base lead to be turned into gold, and the Fool is the highest manifestation of spirit before it blinks out into Union with God. I have a hard time reconciling the two views."
This is hard to go into in a brief response, but the following may help:
There is a model common in Western occultism, wherein a Path of Incarnation is seen as descending curve which is complemented by a Path of Return. Like all models, it's important with this one to remember that "the map is not the terrain." In the present case, the two-phase idea ("down and back") is actually pretty misleading.
It's misleading because both phases are continuous. It's actually all a continuing process of incarnation, which only seems to "circle back" because the story's point of view changes.
Unconditioned spirit incarnates, i.e., veils itself in progressive densities. (There are several different ways to say this, of course, but I'm sure you get the idea.) At some point in the process it not only has formulated matter (as known in Assiah), but has begun to evolve that matter where it can contain primitive levels of consciousness. The process continues, the matter becoming progressively more sophisticated so that it can contain progressively more sophisticated levels of consciousness. At some point in the process, the bare trace of consciousness inhabiting the matter becomes self-regarding and deludedly thinks of itself as a separate being - which is useful, because this accelerates the process of the original Aleph-idea progressively incarnating more deeply.
The goal is to create a construct in Assiah sufficiently sophisticated that it is capable of housing and actualizing the entirety of the original consciousness. But, during the process, the point of view changes in the story and is told from the angle of the projection. Each of the Paths, from Tav upward, represents the opening of a matured and strengthened lower vehicle to incarnate a higher band of consciousness.
But, all the way through, this is really the continuation of the originally unconditioned spirit extending itself into denser manifestation with the goal (one way of saying it) of eventually "fitting it all in."
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@Jim Eshelman said
"both 90 (Tzaddi) and 4 (face number) describe the same idea: a square"How do you get a square out of 90?"
A square is a 90° angle.
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@Scarecrow said
"Speaking of which, Eschelman, any chance you'll take a crack at a follow up book which details Crowley's writings on, about, and for the grades 8=3 and up?"
I made the decision, in writing The Mystical & Magical System of the A.'.A.'., not to do that. It would have been easy enough to write the chapters, but it would have been really bad idea to write them. Here are some of the reasons:
- There is, admittedly, some difficulty in meaningfully expressing the particular states etc. of those grades. This is just a matter of writing craft, of course, and could have been overcome for the most part, so it's a lesser reason; but it's a consideration.
2.The chapters on 8=3 and up would only have been of use to someone who was already a 7=4 and had already undertaken the practices and completed the tasks already laid out in Chapter 11 of the book. Yet such a person wouldn't need those chapters. They would already have everything they needed, and I didn't want to write just a theoretical work for those who didn't need it.
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As a sub-part of (2), the next stage past 7=4 is Babe of the Abyss. The nature of that grade is so individual that mostly I'd have had to leap right over it (punny imagery intended), and gone on, with a gap, to 8=3. That's not a very good model for the book.
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One of the greatest points of silliness (I might say idiocy) in Thelema for a long time has been the tendency of people to claim "crossing the Abyss" or equivalent - when they obviously haven't the slightest clue. I don't want to contribute to this tendency in any fashion by putting down words that some Ruach-laden ego could repurpose to claim his (it's pretty much always "his") achievement of this step. Remember, "By their fruits and nuts shall ye know them."
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And it's worth repeating number (2) - The people for whom such chapters would be intended wouldn't need them. To someone who isn't already an Adeptus Exemptus well-advanced in the work of Chesed, Zayin, and Cheth (already given in M&MAA), it would be of no real use at all.
I might eventually discuss them in another context or framework, as you hint. But I especially didn't want to include them in that book, and it is a very low priority compared to other things I need to do. The Appendices of M&MAA do give the basics.
I'm also happy to answer specific questions to the extent that I can.
"I understand that work in the highest grades of the A:.A:. system might be more secretive (?)"
Not really. That is, not in the sense of "oaths of secrecy."
"but Crowley has a bunch to say on the grades scattered throughout his writings, (like the bit about a person being able to attain the level of Magus in his system and how that works within the structure of the current Aeon as he defines it)"
Those quotes are already in the current book, since "One Star in Sight" is reproduced.
"and I really appreciated your work and effort to provide a reference source and interpretive piece which has helped me to better grasp the lower/middle grades."
Thank you
"Crowley can be tough, especially because his ideas developed over time, and because he wrote sooooo much that bits about a magus are scattered over this liber, that book, and these diarys, etc."
"Scattered." I love that. It's remarkably apropos.
"Maybe even include The Urn???"
Wouldn't do so. Just pick up The Confessions of Aleister Crowley for all of that information (with only slightly different editing).
PS - Are you aware that I've already posted the notes from which I might have written a chapter on 8=3? They're here: www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?t=339