Self-Initiation based on A:.A:. Curriculum
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Re: Self-Initiation and "Grades".
I am working on Self-Initiation, as this thread obviously evidences. I am using a Graded System to guide my work. However, neither myself nor any other Self-Initiate can claim ANY Grade. For us, the use of the Grades is to sign post a path and safe-guard our work against imbalance. For the past 10 months, I've been using the A:.A:. 0=0 curriculum as my guide, but I am not a Probationer. Nor shall I become a Neophyte, thereafter. I just use the A:.A:. system to guide me to work in a progressive manner, rather than allowing myself to stagnate in a worthless cycle of repetitive exercises.
Initiation is a means of unfolding the self, and developing the consciousness to higher forms of awareness. I'm sure that a great deal could be added to that definition, but defining initiation is not the point of this post.
To be a Neophyte, one must be initiated by an Order in which Neophytes exist. There is an endless sea of Self-Initiates who claim to be 8=3, but such claims are clearly in error. If they were really so well advanced, they would bother bragging about it or assuming a title to validate their egos.
For the Orders, Grades and Ranks have a definite meaning and purpose, as they regulate and guide the interaction of students and teachers, making certain that each is qualified for her place.
For the Self-Initiator, the Grades serve a private purpose, but they have no place in public. To claim ANY Grade seems, to me, to be an ego thing, asking for validation, or boasting of accomplishments that can, at best, be subjectively verified.
Without membership in the real A:.A:., you cannot be absolutely sure you've really met the requirements of a given grade to the satisfaction of the A:.A:.
Such is my theory, anyway. Take it or leave it as you will.
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P.S.- this post is in response to the numerous individuals who claim exalted grades without the authority of a real Order. I disagree vehemently with such claims, and hereby affirm that, barring initiation at a later date into a real lineage, I have no claim on any Grade.
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In response to the last post
I agree, an ego trip to claiming what grade you are is absolutely unnecessary . People who do that, will NEVER ...ABSOLUTELY NEVER CROSS THE ABYSS!!!!
But it is the spirit of Horus and the spirits that initiate that will guide any worthy magician to the next grades..
Because Ipissimus grade, is also somewhat of self-initiation and I believe jones and crowley made the A.'. A.'. a self practicing order, and really the golden dawn is as well.. You can initiate anyone as far as sex magick goes.. You can provide a working to find partners for that type of initiation..
I believe that the A.'. A.'. can be a true order within the self. YOU DO NOT NEED a tutor ahead of you to help you. It's the work you do that advances you, not a human who is one grade ahead of you
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King -
"What I do not need is suggestions to find a real A:.A:. member, put up with the hassle of going to see them for my initiation, and all that. I self-initiated to Probationer, and the ceremonial method I used produced a profound effect in my consciousness. "
I'd like to give you a piece of advice, but because of your situation, I'll leave it up to you to figure out how and if you can make it happen.
If I had to describe my own path, I would say that I haven't intended to initiate alone at all, but instead that I've seemed to generate initiatory ordeals for myself in spite of being alone. It hasn't been easy by ANY stretch of the imagination. One thing that I'd say you could deeply deeply benefit from (on the verge of saying "need," but holding back) is a real, live person to talk about your experiences with - who knows you, what you're about, that you're generally not crazy, and who is willing to be patient yet firm with you if you begin heading in those crazier directions. Otherwise, if you're already a bit unbalanced when you go looking for help, people tend to think you're just a little bonkers to begin with and stay clear of you. So... even if it's not a tutor ahead of you per se, I'd at least recommend someone who is familiar with what you are trying to do and what can happen...
And if I may hazard a more personal word of advice... Don't dump everything on your wife. Finding some other person to process your struggles and experiences with will relieve the load you may potentially put on her. And it can get heavy.
peace,
Lance
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I don't think once can self-initiate as a Probationer as it is a period of assessment where the order observes your work and determines if it would be better for you to continue the work of the order or to go on to some other type of work. The student grade wasn't really enforced until the College of Thelema came along, most being admitted directly to 0=0 and this is the practice of most lineages.
Self-initiation is certainly a feasible course as most of the A.'.A.'. members out there had to self-initiate themselves through the grades because an instructor passed away or some similar circumstance. The College of Thelema I think was the first case where an adept was able to bring people up through the outer order before passing on where it wasn't a case of self-initiation. For example Karl Germer passed away when Marcelo Motta became a 2=9. Achad's failure was that he never finished the grade work after crossing the Abyss and many of his lineage no longer practice Thelema but a variation with some obvious differences like Harry Smith. Jim & David & company had a benefit that no other had and are blessed in that regard.
Some lineages are people who were cut contact with by their superiors, including Achad and Russell. The best example is the Brazilian A.'.A.'. with Frater Zaratustra, Euclydes de Almeida, probably the senior initiate of the A.'.A.'. on the planet. He was a Zelator when Motta cut contact with him and he continues the work.
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Youre right about marcello motta. His lineage now Call themselves thelemites, but they are not realizing that they might need to do this..
Crowley said that If there is no instructor around, you can Perform a Necromantic working to evoke the dead and past instructors and past masters..
I.E in Liber ABA book 4 he gave the example with A.E. Waite Summoned Apollonius of Tyana. A.E. Waites Book of Black Magic and pacts will instuct someone to peform Necromantic Rituals In a "Golden Dawn" style format.I wish that Motta's Lineage Would have done that and All other Lineages that linked away from a past master
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King -
I wanted to clarify my comment on self-initiation as a Probationer... what I meant is that it isn't an initiatory degree, so all you need to do is sign the oath, it doesn't require preliminary work unless you want to do the student grade that is...
Which Motta lineage are you referring to? I wouldn't call the Equinox editors the Motta lineage by any means. Some worked with Harry Smith, some with Helen Parsons-SMith after the falling out with Motta. Motta's students proper are guys like Bersson & Eales. I can't think of anyone who has read & intellectually accepted Liber AL who doesn't call themselves Thelemite.
As far as linking to a dead master... LOL... the idea is to use their WORKS, as in their books etc. in order to continue the work. Not literally raise the dead. The Equinox team have had an UNPRECEDENTED access to Crowley's system, including access to Crowley's notebooks on the A.'.A.'. and its system. They've learned the keys to some rituals that have been published & unpublished that were thought lost or been able to reconstruct Crowley's intent better than anyone else before. Most people have had to go on and develop their versions of lost documents or fill the material in with their own ideas etc. like the Robes of the Grades. I am not saying Liber Vesta was Crowley's intent but it is based on Crowley's notes nonetheless! The robes I've seen are also very different from those presented in Jim's book. The 0=0 robe was a black version of the white robe, as written by AC in Magick WIthout Tears actually! The later robes had eliminated the hood in favour of nemysses with different colours. Neophyte was a plain black robe with a purple nemyss and the zelator was a purple robe with a green nemyss (not as gaudy as it sounds). The colours of the nemyss reflected the next stage while the robe was the grounding of the energies of the grade itself.
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@frateruranus said
"I wanted to clarify my comment on self-initiation as a Probationer... what I meant is that it isn't an initiatory degree"
I disagree. Though the ceremony is simple, it is of enormous impact. An actual linkage is formed that the most sensitive can directly perceive. In some ways, it is the most important of all the initiations, and perhaps the only one that is completely essential.
"They've learned the keys to some rituals that have been published & unpublished that were thought lost or been able to reconstruct Crowley's intent better than anyone else before. Most people have had to go on and develop their versions of lost documents or fill the material in with their own ideas etc. like the Robes of the Grades."
That line was probably aimed at me. But our descriptions of the robes came straight from Crowley. I'm willing to admit that he may have had different initial views but, as of the late 1920s, what I've published were his descriptions.
"The robes I've seen are also very different from those presented in Jim's book. The 0=0 robe was a black version of the white robe, as written by AC in Magick WIthout Tears actually!"
The Probationer robe is the one place that so-called Liber Vesta actually got it right. It's white. Whoever showed you a black one simply didn't know what they were talking about.
Now, people can choose to wear whatever they want as far as I'm concerned. I will, however, resist them taking what they've made up and calling it authentic.
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No, that line wasn't aimed at you. I've seen pictures that confirm the robes you describe as well. It was a general comment is all.
As far as the black robe for the 0=0 it was a lineal change, I wasn't told it was Crowley's design but referred to MWT. The source was legitimate A.'.A.'. though.
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I meaning bersson linage. I give his lineage credit, they are loyal. But I feel they might need to have an open mind as to what really went on.
The motta folks to have unprecedented access to crowleys documents, I think they should "spread the wealth" I'm not asking for Socialism lol. I'm just asking that everyone can benefit from what they have access too. Thats why I discredit them. The holy knowledge can be found by raising the dead..
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King -
@Kingsolomon said
"I meaning bersson linage. I give his lineage credit, they are loyal. But I feel they might need to have an open mind as to what really went on.
The motta folks to have unprecedented access to crowleys documents, I think they should "spread the wealth" I'm not asking for Socialism lol. I'm just asking that everyone can benefit from what they have access too. Thats why I discredit them. The holy knowledge can be found by raising the dead..
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King"Actually, MOTTA had unprecedented access. I don't think anybody inherited all of Motta's papers though Bersson does have a huge chunk of them. It also has to be remembered though that the Motta lineage has their own interpretation of the A.'.A.'. and it's work that isn't necessarily in congruence with Crowley's version anymore. Motta's commentaries were "corrections" to some of Crowley's writings or were meant to reveal what he felt, in his experience, were blinds that Crowley inserted in order to keep his Oaths.
I don't think you should discredit them by any means. The Pittsburgh group has many, many fine Magicians in their ranks like Frater Zeus and Frater Zain, two men who have my deepest respect and admiration. I don't know many of the others as the crew seems very different from my time there what with some having drifted away or moved to other parts of the country.
As to spreading the wealth of materials though, you are asking about unpublished A.'.A.'. rituals & documents. Materials never meant to be published by any means. Many of the things Motta had access to he didn't necessarily make copies of and these became oral teachings in his lineage, and therefore unverifiable as having come from Crowley. You want the materials though, join the order. Even then, if you have formed a legitimate link with the order and whether you have maintained contact or not, through your superior breaking contact with you or you with them, the materials will come into your possession if your aspiration is pure. Many high initiates of Motta's line are no longer with Motta's lineage so to speak and they inherited the same materials...
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@frateruranus said
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@Kingsolomon said
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The holy knowledge can be found by raising the dead..
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King"Actually, MOTTA had unprecedented access. I don't think anybody inherited all of Motta's papers though Bersson does have a huge chunk of them. It also has to be remembered though that the Motta lineage has their own interpretation of the A.'.A.'. and it's work that isn't necessarily in congruence with Crowley's version anymore. Motta's commentaries were "corrections" to some of Crowley's writings or were meant to reveal what he felt, in his experience, were blinds that Crowley inserted in order to keep his Oaths....
... the materials will come into your possession if your aspiration is pure. Many high initiates of Motta's line are no longer with Motta's lineage so to speak and they inherited the same materials..."Or maybe what you really need will come to you. From you say it sounds like Motta's line is an offshoot of the original line, like a sub-Order of what Crowley intended? This needs to be known by those who want to join The A.'.A.'., wouldn't you say? If a prospective member reads only what is widely available, then chooses to begin the process of membership with what is called "The A.'.A.'.", that person doesn't really know what she or he is making contact with. I am not saying that one or another is more legit, just saying that the lines are apparently somewhat different.
Politics always creeps in eventually whether we try to ignore it or not.
I would hope that all lines could work together and also, that at some point it does not matter how one began. But maybe I am naive. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Persephone -
No Persephone, that would be incorrect thinking and by that logic all A.'.A.'. claimants are off shoots because all have made some alterations to the system based on new research and experiences as well as advances in science & art. The order has lacked central leadership for decades and in the state it is in now it will probably never get back to a central leadership on the plane of disks.
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@frateruranus said
"No Persephone, that would be incorrect thinking and by that logic all A.'.A.'. claimants are off shoots because all have made some alterations to the system based on new research and experiences as well as advances in science & art. The order has lacked central leadership for decades and in the state it is in now it will probably never get back to a central leadership on the plane of disks."
Frateruranus, of course you are entitled to your opinion and the same goes for me and everyone else here. I agree that alterations will come with advances in physical science and other areas. If a claimant makes changes based on his or her own research or experiences, then soon it would become a different system if these changes were big enough. Are you saying that these claimants are receiving information from higher sources, or based on their own decisions and preferences?
All we know about the various claimants is what is written, unless we were in a sspecifc Order directly. Only then can we decide whether there were major changes made in subtle but important ways that are not published.
If that system is working for a student, only he or she can decide based on answers gotten from the Superior.
In your earlier post you say that "Motta's lineage has their own interpretation of the A.'.A'. and its work that isn't necessarily in congruence with Crowley's version anymore."
This is a major change, in my humble opinion. Persephone