The Necronomicon
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@Edward Mason said
"My question would be, given the proven validity of so many other texts, wouldn't they be of more use than the Necronomicon, even if it worked for you in this instance? The intention of the magician is as much (or more) of a factor than the text used.
93 93/93,
Edward"
I'm not saying the Necronomicon is the only or even the most powerful text. I'm just saying that in my own life it worked really well. In fact I haven't even used it in a long time because I'm currently busy exploring other avenues of magick.
Understand that I'm stationed in a foreign country right now and have to share a room with a roommate. As much as I'd like to, I simply don't have the time and resources to do something big like a Goetia operation. I just got to make do with what I got.
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93,
Acknowledged. You asked for thoughts or experiences. I shared my thoughts, as did others. I've not experienced Necronomicon magick, because I found Qabalistic texts and practices gave me a much clearer idea of how, and why, to approach magick. The thing looked bogus, so I avoided it. If it works for you at the moment, may I suggest you also keep your mind open to move on from it to more multi-layered texts later?
Many of the basic exercises of practical magick - Liber Resh, a Middle Pillar and even the LBRP - can be performed simply while sitting with your eyes closed, calming yourself and visualizing them. It's not ideal, obviously, but I do know people who worked through grades or degrees this way, and it builds up visualization abilities. So if you don't have a whole private room available to you, that's one alternative.
93 93/93,
Edward
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I find that The necronomicon is not a Thelemic, not a Hermetic text. But it uses elements of each, and the structure of the rituals conform to traditional ceremonial magick. It is a very fine example of Chaos magick, and experements with this text are no more or less authentic than any other. So long as you conform to the experimental methods of scientific illuminism. Also seeing as the text is a new creation and not been refined or well flushed out, I would not advise working through it unless one is has well established in various practices, such as meditation, posture, breathing, visualization, and maybe some more traditional symbol systems such as the Kabbalah.
For best results i would suggest the Necronomicon be left as a part of personal experiments by those of adeptus grade or the equivolent in the A.'.A.'. and taking it as a form of Grimoire evokation. Such as The keys of Solomon, (another constructed text) only one that is themed on Sumarian and lovecraftian symbols, rather than islamic/mideavil christian demonology
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Currently without any surprise to me, I again find myself in agreement with Froclown.
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If a Magician is working in righteousness, in accordance with his Will, it matters little whether the ritual be performed extempore, or if it originates in some sub-standard, bastardized text. "Make no difference between one thing and any other."
Again, "success is your proof." An unschooled, extempore ritual performed with purity of heart is far more effective than the most elaborate of workings undertaken in falsity. When I first began practicing Magick, I would often (and still do) devise my own rituals. They weren't as eloquent or intricate as other rituals--but for some reason still powerful and effective. Why? Because they were sincere.
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Simon's Necronomicon was very much based on traditional Kabbalah as well. One could invoke Diana for the lunar aspects (Yesod) and the Necronomicon equivalent is Innana (Ishtar) the Lunar Goddess who waxes and wanes as she looses her 7 jewels in her descent into the underworld, losing one aspect of self after another untill she is killed by her sister and restored to life. This being mirrors the passing of the Tuat ritual for the Zelator, as well as the lunar phases and links the Goddess image with the number 7, with associates an aspect of Ishtar with Babalon.
The solar (tiphereth) deity in the Necronomicon is Shemshamash, which relates to YHVH and a deity of that name was worshiped by early pre-jewish pagans, and became source material for the solar(tiphereth) aspect of Jewish worship.
Then The main Deity spoken so highly of with his 50 names and many powers is Marduk, the Gevurah type warrior, that with his flaming disc (How perfect a symbol for HADIT the inner self) divides the primal Tiamat in twain to create the world of duality.
Is it a far stretch to get from Marduk to RA-HOOR-KHUIT? -
Got to love the synchronicity on this board...I was thinking of this topic a few weeks back and now theres a thread..anyway so I'll share some of the thoughts.
While I have not read the grimoire, I am long familiar with it's existence and some of the contents, and always regarded it as 'fiction'. In that context I would no more use it for magick then I would summon a poltergeist from a Steven King novel.
Then I came across some orders which use the system it provides and the archetypes as the underpinning of their magickal system. This was very interesting, as these were very serious Magicians. If there was nothing to it, surely they would go with a purer Qabalistic system, tried, true, and tested.
I pondered what could really be going on with this 'fictional grimoire' the Necromonicon. First, I assume all accounts of its origins are bogus and unverifiable, so assume it is a 'fake' regarding the back story. However, if even parts of the story that is was received in dreams is true, that is interesting. I guess the story is the author found it already written in the Akashic records. Either way I have found books in dreams and it is always a notable experience...though I've yet to fully read one and remember what was written in it.
Second, I began to think about the self-referential web of the Qabalistic correspondence systems and archetypes. These are surely based on the most fundamental aspects of the universe, and is the reason the systems are effective. What if another system emerged which was also based on those same fundamental aspects (chaos), but the structure and archetypes were different, or at least a variation of Qabala. It is unlikely, but not impossible, such a system could emerge as an evolutionary progression, or information transferred via inter-dimensional communication from powerful entities, or from the bottom of the abyss of the unconscious. None of these origins invalidate it as a workable system of magick.
Third, any system is about bringing a change of consciousness which the Operator can use to establish and energize the magickal link. If it is in fact a valid system of symbolism and correspondences which invoke the required consciousness, then from a magickal perspective it is likely valid.
Finally, regarding entities, as I understand, even if these are 'fictional' entities from the author, by the workings and energy of practitioners, they have in fact become egregores accessible via the system, and quite 'real'. Whether the dark gods have existed throughout eternity, I don't know.
From a magickal research perspective, I suppose it is worth the effort to learn more about it.
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Vortex, When you say the author, do you mean Lovecraft or Simon?
In the past I've heard about groups that were trying to work with the novel 'Harvest Home' by Thomas Tryon. And there are groups trying to use The Lord of the Rings. Tolkein must be spinning, since he was a strict Catholic.
And isn't there a LOTR tarot now?
I just feel that to try to use something that someone writes as fiction seems either useless or worse. -
@Persephone said
"Vortex, When you say the author, do you mean Lovecraft or Simon?
In the past I've heard about groups that were trying to work with the novel 'Harvest Home' by Thomas Tryon. And there are groups trying to use The Lord of the Rings. Tolkein must be spinning, since he was a strict Catholic. And isn't there a LOTR tarot now?
I just feel that to try to use something that someone writes as fiction seems either useless or worse."From what I understand the one that is used for Magick is mostly the Simon...but honestly I'm not sure what the differences are between Simon and Lovecraft versions.
I guess the difference from those creating systems from LOTR and such would be, does it provide the framework to alter the consciousness to fulfill the magickal work...but that requires the ability to swap in the belief system. These efforts, and the Necronomicon, as Froclown points out, are examples of Chaos Magick. If a Magician is able to convince themself that they are in Middle Earth and assume the godform of Gandalph, and achieve the 'enflamed enthusiasm' required to direct their Will, who knows maybe it works
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93
"but honestly I'm not sure what the differences are between Simon and Lovecraft versions.
"Simple. There is no 'Lovecraft version.' He refers to it in his stories as the work of the (made-up) mad Arab Abdul Alhazred, but he never wrote out a text. Anything purporting to be by Lovecraft ... isn't.
93 93/93,
Edward
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Good to know, thanks Edward...I always had a murky understanding of the relation.
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I fail to see what it matters if the Gods in the Necronomican are fictional or not. EVERY last God, spirit, elemental, angel, mystical power, force, spiritual light, vibrations, animal magnetism, and any other such faux explanations not suitable to rational materialism are fictional as well.
In Fact I would go so far as to say electricity is a fictional explanation for a known phenomena. As well as all of newton's forces and mathematical equations, etc. These all are examples of "entities which may or may not exist, but are part of rituals where by doing certain thing certain results follow" See the Copenhagen interpretation of Quantum mechanics. That we don't know and can't know what actually happens, between what we do and what results follow. But the math helps predict results.
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Matter, then, is also a fictional explanation for a known phenomena.
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Precisely.
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True.
All knowledge is a fictional explanation for phenomenal experiences, or at least the content of knowledge at best refers to something Real which may or may not exist.
Even if it does exist, it may or may not actually exist in a way that is expressed via the content of knowledge.
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i am reminded why i don't go to this board much anymore... the general public view is to come up with all the reasons something that doesn't fit Crowley's definition of occultism isn't actually valid. If you read the literature available on where the Necronomicon that was published by Simon came from, it wouldn't be to far a stretch to believe his words. Is believing that it was text written in Greek, supposedly by an arab who followed a pre-Islam brand of magic/occultism that comes from Sumerian and Babylonian rituals so hard?
Personally it's just as feasible and has as much evidence as some British guy who liked to pretend he was a Scottish lord found a manuscript at the market that he decoded and then was put into contact with some "secret chiefs". Actually wait, the Necronomicon sounds more feasible to me.
Ultimately according to the principles of Chaos Magick it doesn't really matter, its the work that important.
Oh and btw, try doing the rituals. Just one. One of the gate walking rituals - exactly as it tells you to do it. Then tell me it isn't valid. I've done them. Exactly as written. More magick and more results than I ever experienced in any Thelemic Mystery School or Order. Ever.
may the spirits of the earth Remember
may the spirits of the air Remember~jonathan
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Are these the only two kind of Spirit's that may Remember?
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@alysa said
"Are these the only two kind of Spirit's that may Remember?"
its the ones commonly worked with in the Sumerian pantheon hence, the reference to the necronomicon. would it be cooler if i said it in sumerian? ok..
zi di geer kia kanpa
zi di geer anna kanpa. -
Oh, interesting to know!
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There is no conflict between any older and younger generations of gods in the original Sumerian mythos. Simon's Necronomicon is based on the later Babylonian mythos Enuma Elish where there is such a conflict indeed, but I don't think it's very wise for a Thelemitic magician who seeks to integrate all parts of his or her being to keep up such a dualist split in his/her psychocosm. No need to keep up such a conflict between our human brain and our reptilian brain - the essence of the Great Work is to integrate them.