The Necronomicon
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Got to love the synchronicity on this board...I was thinking of this topic a few weeks back and now theres a thread..anyway so I'll share some of the thoughts.
While I have not read the grimoire, I am long familiar with it's existence and some of the contents, and always regarded it as 'fiction'. In that context I would no more use it for magick then I would summon a poltergeist from a Steven King novel.
Then I came across some orders which use the system it provides and the archetypes as the underpinning of their magickal system. This was very interesting, as these were very serious Magicians. If there was nothing to it, surely they would go with a purer Qabalistic system, tried, true, and tested.
I pondered what could really be going on with this 'fictional grimoire' the Necromonicon. First, I assume all accounts of its origins are bogus and unverifiable, so assume it is a 'fake' regarding the back story. However, if even parts of the story that is was received in dreams is true, that is interesting. I guess the story is the author found it already written in the Akashic records. Either way I have found books in dreams and it is always a notable experience...though I've yet to fully read one and remember what was written in it.
Second, I began to think about the self-referential web of the Qabalistic correspondence systems and archetypes. These are surely based on the most fundamental aspects of the universe, and is the reason the systems are effective. What if another system emerged which was also based on those same fundamental aspects (chaos), but the structure and archetypes were different, or at least a variation of Qabala. It is unlikely, but not impossible, such a system could emerge as an evolutionary progression, or information transferred via inter-dimensional communication from powerful entities, or from the bottom of the abyss of the unconscious. None of these origins invalidate it as a workable system of magick.
Third, any system is about bringing a change of consciousness which the Operator can use to establish and energize the magickal link. If it is in fact a valid system of symbolism and correspondences which invoke the required consciousness, then from a magickal perspective it is likely valid.
Finally, regarding entities, as I understand, even if these are 'fictional' entities from the author, by the workings and energy of practitioners, they have in fact become egregores accessible via the system, and quite 'real'. Whether the dark gods have existed throughout eternity, I don't know.
From a magickal research perspective, I suppose it is worth the effort to learn more about it.
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Vortex, When you say the author, do you mean Lovecraft or Simon?
In the past I've heard about groups that were trying to work with the novel 'Harvest Home' by Thomas Tryon. And there are groups trying to use The Lord of the Rings. Tolkein must be spinning, since he was a strict Catholic.
And isn't there a LOTR tarot now?
I just feel that to try to use something that someone writes as fiction seems either useless or worse. -
@Persephone said
"Vortex, When you say the author, do you mean Lovecraft or Simon?
In the past I've heard about groups that were trying to work with the novel 'Harvest Home' by Thomas Tryon. And there are groups trying to use The Lord of the Rings. Tolkein must be spinning, since he was a strict Catholic. And isn't there a LOTR tarot now?
I just feel that to try to use something that someone writes as fiction seems either useless or worse."From what I understand the one that is used for Magick is mostly the Simon...but honestly I'm not sure what the differences are between Simon and Lovecraft versions.
I guess the difference from those creating systems from LOTR and such would be, does it provide the framework to alter the consciousness to fulfill the magickal work...but that requires the ability to swap in the belief system. These efforts, and the Necronomicon, as Froclown points out, are examples of Chaos Magick. If a Magician is able to convince themself that they are in Middle Earth and assume the godform of Gandalph, and achieve the 'enflamed enthusiasm' required to direct their Will, who knows maybe it works
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93
"but honestly I'm not sure what the differences are between Simon and Lovecraft versions.
"Simple. There is no 'Lovecraft version.' He refers to it in his stories as the work of the (made-up) mad Arab Abdul Alhazred, but he never wrote out a text. Anything purporting to be by Lovecraft ... isn't.
93 93/93,
Edward
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Good to know, thanks Edward...I always had a murky understanding of the relation.
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I fail to see what it matters if the Gods in the Necronomican are fictional or not. EVERY last God, spirit, elemental, angel, mystical power, force, spiritual light, vibrations, animal magnetism, and any other such faux explanations not suitable to rational materialism are fictional as well.
In Fact I would go so far as to say electricity is a fictional explanation for a known phenomena. As well as all of newton's forces and mathematical equations, etc. These all are examples of "entities which may or may not exist, but are part of rituals where by doing certain thing certain results follow" See the Copenhagen interpretation of Quantum mechanics. That we don't know and can't know what actually happens, between what we do and what results follow. But the math helps predict results.
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Matter, then, is also a fictional explanation for a known phenomena.
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Precisely.
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True.
All knowledge is a fictional explanation for phenomenal experiences, or at least the content of knowledge at best refers to something Real which may or may not exist.
Even if it does exist, it may or may not actually exist in a way that is expressed via the content of knowledge.
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i am reminded why i don't go to this board much anymore... the general public view is to come up with all the reasons something that doesn't fit Crowley's definition of occultism isn't actually valid. If you read the literature available on where the Necronomicon that was published by Simon came from, it wouldn't be to far a stretch to believe his words. Is believing that it was text written in Greek, supposedly by an arab who followed a pre-Islam brand of magic/occultism that comes from Sumerian and Babylonian rituals so hard?
Personally it's just as feasible and has as much evidence as some British guy who liked to pretend he was a Scottish lord found a manuscript at the market that he decoded and then was put into contact with some "secret chiefs". Actually wait, the Necronomicon sounds more feasible to me.
Ultimately according to the principles of Chaos Magick it doesn't really matter, its the work that important.
Oh and btw, try doing the rituals. Just one. One of the gate walking rituals - exactly as it tells you to do it. Then tell me it isn't valid. I've done them. Exactly as written. More magick and more results than I ever experienced in any Thelemic Mystery School or Order. Ever.
may the spirits of the earth Remember
may the spirits of the air Remember~jonathan
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Are these the only two kind of Spirit's that may Remember?
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@alysa said
"Are these the only two kind of Spirit's that may Remember?"
its the ones commonly worked with in the Sumerian pantheon hence, the reference to the necronomicon. would it be cooler if i said it in sumerian? ok..
zi di geer kia kanpa
zi di geer anna kanpa. -
Oh, interesting to know!
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There is no conflict between any older and younger generations of gods in the original Sumerian mythos. Simon's Necronomicon is based on the later Babylonian mythos Enuma Elish where there is such a conflict indeed, but I don't think it's very wise for a Thelemitic magician who seeks to integrate all parts of his or her being to keep up such a dualist split in his/her psychocosm. No need to keep up such a conflict between our human brain and our reptilian brain - the essence of the Great Work is to integrate them.
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Greetings!
There is a lot of valuable information in the Simon Necronomicon. I think that you can find many answers about the tome at the following website:
www.warlockasylum.wordpress.com
Stay Blessed
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@Ben Reed said
"Greetings!
There is a lot of valuable information in the Simon Necronomicon. I think that you can find many answers about the tome at the following website:
www.warlockasylum.wordpress.com
Stay Blessed"
Yes, I do appreciate all what Warlock Asylum has written on the matter, but I'm afraid that without his directions the beginner could easily get confused. Thanks.
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Sorry for bringing up an old thread but something related to this book happened to me yesterday.
I had to get some stuff from the local pharmacy and the clerk who rung me up had a strange aura about him... something I would call "qliphotic." He look drained and sickly and moved slowly as if he was wading through mud. As he was ringing me up I saw a sigil on his wrist. I impulsively grabbed his wrist asking which spirit it belonged too. (I have been working from the Goetia lately and for some reason I couldn't help myself.) He said the the sigil came from the Simon Necronomicon and belong to Cthl (sorry i don't even like writing the names of those beings). I then proceeded to "reprimand" him for doing something so spiritually irresponsible (It was more like listening to someone else reprimand him while I watched.). Needless to say, last night I had some really messed up dreams of dark misshapen beings coming into this world seeking to destroy it out of cruel pleasure. Not to mention today the A/C in my car broke and my paycheck was missing about $300. To be affected by something so intensely for me is strange as I have been practicing for a while and have a pretty tough aura to penetrate.
I don't think that it is wise to mess with that book unless you have your knowledge and conversation if at all. I have met one of the individuals involved in the writing of that book (this individual actually all over the occult book world), and is one of the most mean spirited people I have ever encountered.
The title of that infernal book should include: Reader Beware! This SH** Will F*** You Up!
72
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@TheSilent1 said
"Sorry for bringing up an old thread but something related to this book happened to me yesterday.
I had to get some stuff from the local pharmacy and the clerk who rung me up had a strange aura about him... something I would call "qliphotic." He look drained and sickly and moved slowly as if he was wading through mud. As he was ringing me up I saw a sigil on his wrist. I impulsively grabbed his wrist asking which spirit it belonged too. (I have been working from the Goetia lately and for some reason I couldn't help myself.) He said the the sigil came from the Simon Necronomicon and belong to Cthl (sorry i don't even like writing the names of those beings). I then proceeded to "reprimand" him for doing something so spiritually irresponsible (It was more like listening to someone else reprimand him while I watched.). Needless to say, last night I had some really messed up dreams of dark misshapen beings coming into this world seeking to destroy it out of cruel pleasure. Not to mention today the A/C in my car broke and my paycheck was missing about $300. To be affected by something so intensely for me is strange as I have been practicing for a while and have a pretty tough aura to penetrate.
I don't think that it is wise to mess with that book unless you have your knowledge and conversation if at all. I have met one of the individuals involved in the writing of that book (this individual actually all over the occult book world), and is one of the most mean spirited people I have ever encountered.
The title of that infernal book should include: Reader Beware! This SH** Will F*** You Up!
72"
How odd..... I dont know much to say about that. But my stepson has Cathulu plushies and for some reason loves that diety.
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@Alias55A said
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How odd..... I dont know much to say about that. But my stepson has Cathulu plushies and for some reason loves that diety."My girlfriend has a Cthl bumper sticker, but it is more of a Lovecraftian joke. I am referring an actual sigil tattooed into an individual's flesh from a book that I know messes up magicians. I have know three magicians who did invocations from that book one is addicted to drugs, another went to Iraq lost his hearing and sanity and is an alcoholic, and a third lost his home and got deported.
Plushies are a far cry from astrally received sigils charged with blood and pain.
72
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I've found Donal Tyson to be quite adept at merging Qabalistic concepts with the Necronomicon, or vice versa as it were.
He has published at least three books on the subject, one of which I purchased and found to be comnprehensive.