meditative state on cannabis
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For those interested
there is a little book on the market called Cannabis Spirituality by Stephen Gaskin. I have inherited a few libraries (I help people with estates) and got this from one of them.Not very deep or profound but seems to have good information on meditation, guidlines, things to look out for, children.....13 guidelines for sanity and safety.
I have expierenced a vision like the one you stated about the Matrix, I was not on drugs, but had been recovering from an illness. It was the most fascinating thing I have ever seen for it was as if I was watching the fabric of time and space weave reality right before my eyes, line by line, very similiar to computer code. This was before I had seen the movie too.
Smoking is a very sacred act, and can inhance our lives on so many levels. I am planning on holding a pipe ceremony at my home this spring as well as an Inepi (Sp?? sweat lodge). I am very much looking forward to this as my mentor in the Wolf Clan is moving and this will be our last time together for a while.
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"This 'matrix' thingy that you both see... thinking about it - like the air moving all multicoloured and swirly? Usually seen in low light conditions? Purple aura's around tree's at dusk?"
no, i know what you are refering too which ive experienced to an extent, but that is something else.
by meaning of 'matrix', if you havent watched the first movie, its look s alot like a transparent bubble rippling through reality, but expanding and then contracting, like also when neo fly's he kneels and reality 'bends' into ripples, emanating.
check that link out, and you will see what i mean with all the ripples.
(although when under the influence of high, you do tend to perceive more colors)
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"The aura of people on cannabis is usually larger than normal. Expanded. Not early as much as those taking LSD where the hallucination of the 'breathing room' is common - (the room breaths in and out as you do). People have such interesting hallucinations! I've never been able to do it myself. Maybe your matrix experience is a scaled down version of the breathing room experience?"
i hardly see auras, pictures come to me in my mind mentally when a shift in consciousness occurs, but not lucid ones yet anyways.
the closest ive come to yet seeing auras in the white etheric plasma that surrounds the outline of the body, but no colors yet, but dusk and early dawn i can see auras on tree a lil, and most things when the like is dim enough or agaisnt a solid color, but yet just the white stuff, not color yet
.it probly is a scaled down version of the breathing room. as for you not experiencing trippy stuff as such, i dont know how your environment is to see if something could be change might help, but try to get into something natural, mind screwing. with me, im not the type to look of funny videos and or such entertaining things when im high, for me its all about the experience and what i get out of it, and there is A LOT to get out of the mental twilight mind screwing zone .
my setting and general likes accustom to cannabis is, trippsy techno(goa trance, good one here...www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WyINyYRsCI&feature=PlayList&p=7F148ED195E9F6EE&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=46) thats trippy, plus death metal and black metal, (sceptic flesh, Anubis www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdxvCgWxlNY)(and behemoth, at the left hand ov god www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii1SvUK-yCw , lyrics are an invocation of the snake and lion, [abraxas/behemoth])
and ofcourse being outside even if its on your porch or whatever, go into a stare, (i experience the trippy stuff with eyes open mostly, sometimes closed) trippy movies like queen of the damned, incense is good.anything taboo that can part the veils with that shamanic sense of shifting from one way of seeing things to another(self imposed god form?). but feal free to check out the links, even if its not your tatste im your you will get the picture.
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For those of you on your "Vision Quest":
"By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them."
Obviously, when one ingests any sort of mind-altering substance, various spatial distortions/cosmic thingamabobs/visions/little green men wil manifest. What of it? Such things, in the last estimate, are little more than distractions upon the path. Instead of "whoa, what are all these pretty lights?!?!" the questions should really be: "How does this impact my Will?" "How does this substance allow me to realize my Will?" I've seen too many people get all google-eyed about their visions and wind up in the nut house.
While it is good for the young to experiment with their minds and bodies, there is a time to play, and a time to get down to business. Sure, it's fun to get stoned; I do it all the time. But it's important not to lose sight of one's true objective. Cannabis is a tool and a means, not an end in itself.
"I used to do Heroin (was addicted for years) and I found that the point in which one "nods" is an amazing aid for Meditation. I, of course, do not condone this nor am I telling anyone to go out and get opiates, I am just stating my opinion from what I know. I could see why Crowley used it so often with his followers at The Abbey. "
When I was stuck in purgatory (rehabilitation) there was this orange-clad monk who would come to class on Tuesdays. Those who stayed for meditation would get extra credit. So there I'd be, high on oxycotin, like one of those bobble toys on the dashboard--bob, bob, bob.
Sure, it helps with meditation--until you run out, that is. Opiate withdrawals are the worst feeling I've ever experienced. In the end, meditation is best accomplished straight and sober.Anybody here read "Diary of a Drug Fiend"? It's important, when taking any substance, to act in accordance with one's Will.
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I've found that cannabis is only useful for meditation when you haven't had it for a while.
As soon as you get into the "stoner's" way of life (e.g. number one sign: putting one together first thing upon waking
) then cannabis is TERRIBLE for meditation, really, really counterproductive. As tolerance sets in, and your body is awash with cannabinoids, the background feeling becomes the very opposite of the alertness and vibrancy required for meditation. Also, one becomes very lazy and procrastinating, which is a *generally *bad thing for a magician. You get great ideas, but you never put them - or any other ideas, for that matter - into practice. At best, it's possible to *function *in life as a "stoner", but that's really scraping the barrel of what's possible for a life.But in that "first flush" - for a few days, maybe - yes, I think it can be a very powerful aid, just as AC puts it in that extraordinary essay.
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My expierence of this matrix could be likened to being inside of a waterfall. There was depth, as if the air it self was getting thicker, mulitdemnsional . There was also a sensation of atoms condensing/ coelessing as they decended into the gravitational pull, and other atoms/molecules shifting around, sort of like that old computer game with the falling blocks that need to be fit together.
I tried to take the best advantage of the situation, I had thet feeling that at this moment I was very clearly at the point in which I could bring tangible changes to my life. I focused my intent upon what it was that I wanted to bring into my world, and it worked. I have attempted to regain this vision a few other times, with much less of a degree of sucess but seem to be able to shift close to it when I can have a significant period of quiet. I like to think that at this time, I am in a very real way walking between the worlds, and can access my dna to bring about changes in my physcial being. -
I'm pretty ambivalent about it. I find that cannabis is great for bringing peripheral cognitive processes into the foreground, which sounds like it would be a good adjunct for meditation, except that it's much easier to get distracted by this and lose track of the plot than it is in a sober, centered meditative state.
I am frequently left with the impression that my conceptual horizon is greatly expanded on cannabis but it saps me of the energy required to actually explore it.
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I highly recommend we first define what we mean by "meditation" in this case.
Do we mean mindless wanderings or the singular focus of willed thought?
In the first case, sure - smoke it if you got it.
In the second case, it could prove a useful distraction for training purposes but after it becomes habit, we have other questions to raise. "Who" or "what" is doing the meditating? -
@gurugeorge said
"I've found that cannabis is only useful for meditation when you haven't had it for a while.
As soon as you get into the "stoner's" way of life (e.g. number one sign: putting one together first thing upon waking
) then cannabis is TERRIBLE for meditation, really, really counterproductive. As tolerance sets in, and your body is awash with cannabinoids, the background feeling becomes the very opposite of the alertness and vibrancy required for meditation. Also, one becomes very lazy and procrastinating, which is a *generally *bad thing for a magician. You get great ideas, but you never put them - or any other ideas, for that matter - into practice. At best, it's possible to *function *in life as a "stoner", but that's really scraping the barrel of what's possible for a life.But in that "first flush" - for a few days, maybe - yes, I think it can be a very powerful aid, just as AC puts it in that extraordinary essay."
The great thing about pot is that it makes one very passive and receptive; the bad thing about pot is that it makes one very passive and receptive.
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@Alrah said
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@gurugeorge said
"I've found that cannabis is only useful for meditation when you haven't had it for a while.As soon as you get into the "stoner's" way of life (e.g. number one sign: putting one together first thing upon waking
) then cannabis is TERRIBLE for meditation, really, really counterproductive. As tolerance sets in, and your body is awash with cannabinoids, the background feeling becomes the very opposite of the alertness and vibrancy required for meditation. Also, one becomes very lazy and procrastinating, which is a *generally *bad thing for a magician. You get great ideas, but you never put them - or any other ideas, for that matter - into practice. At best, it's possible to *function *in life as a "stoner", but that's really scraping the barrel of what's possible for a life.But in that "first flush" - for a few days, maybe - yes, I think it can be a very powerful aid, just as AC puts it in that extraordinary essay."
Oh, come on! The work of stoners is everywhere. The work of the best plasterers and decorators is done by stoners. Do you think that people do these kind of mundane boring jobs for very long if they don't smoke? At least that way they can become 'one with the plaster'.
And what about all the music that's been produced?"You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were rrreal {shagging} high on drugs. The Beatles were so {shagging} high they let Ringo sing a few tunes." - Bill Hicks."
I'm not arguing against cannabis, or denying its benefits, I'm saying that it's counter-productive for meditation to get into the *habit *of it. You could have quoted me chillum-smokin' Hindu naga babas, and I would still have said the same thing
Interspersed with breaks - yes. Continuously - no.
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Obviously, it also depends on your personality, neurochemistry and other such issues. I know of a doctor of physics and a CEO who smokes daily and always seems very sharp. Me, however, can smoke very rarely before the tolerance (not addiction, though) sets up. If I smoke more often, it just makes me feel dumber and I the experience seems mainly boring; I just keep wishing the cannabinoids would go away so that I could think without the lettuce feeling in my brain.
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Came across an interesting site and video pertaining to this discussion:
www.neurosoup.net/videos/Terence-McKenna-on-Meditation-vs-Hallucinogens-33
I did a google search and watched some of Terence McKenna's lectures; I have to say I was blown away and revealed some interesting points about the "shamanic experience".
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@nderabloodredsky said
"Came across an interesting site and video pertaining to this discussion:
www.neurosoup.net/videos/Terence-McKenna-on-Meditation-vs-Hallucinogens-33
I did a google search and watched some of Terence McKenna's lectures; I have to say I was blown away and revealed some interesting points about the "shamanic experience"."
Terence McKenna was like the Indiana Jones of psychedelic research. His book "True Hallucinations" is definitely worth the trouble to acquire. That book was my "Mushroom Manual" for some time. It's a description of his journey to the Amazon, where he took Psilocybin and DMT as part of his "research." He relates DMT to Alchemy and the Gnostic Quest in a very original and thought-provoking way. Something of a subjective approach, but well written and entertaining, especially when they start contacting alien spacecraft.
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His book, "The Archaic Revival: Speculations on Psychedelic Mushrooms, the Amazon, Virtual Reality, UFOs, Evolution, Shamanism, the Rebirth of the Goddess, and the End of History" seems intriguing to me. Anybody read it?
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@nderabloodredsky said
"His book, "The Archaic Revival: Speculations on Psychedelic Mushrooms, the Amazon, Virtual Reality, UFOs, Evolution, Shamanism, the Rebirth of the Goddess, and the End of History" seems intriguing to me. Anybody read it?"
No, not as yet. Most of his ideas are pure speculation, however; the kind of "gnosis" one often receives Under the Influence of the psychedelic mushroom. It's hard to stay objective in such a state; I myself, whilst tripping, once became convinced that I was a member of an alien race, and that I was able to contact my "people" through a green rock I'd found in a riverbed. It was just a matter of time before the ship landed, and away we'd go on our stellar adventure.
Morning found me a mortal again, and slightly less convinced of my cosmic heritage. But it goes to show how one can be carried away by the experience. "Students are earnestly warned against attributing objective reality to any results..." Etc.
But there's still a good deal of value in McKenna's work. He definitely thinks outside the box. (For him I think it's more of a decahedron.) He just gets carried away with his Ideas.
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@nderabloodredsky said
"His book, "The Archaic Revival: Speculations on Psychedelic Mushrooms, the Amazon, Virtual Reality, UFOs, Evolution, Shamanism, the Rebirth of the Goddess, and the End of History" seems intriguing to me. Anybody read it?"
I read it about 10 years ago along with the rest of his works ...I found it absolutely fascinating.
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