Music and Qabalah
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@gmugmble said
"P. F. Case had an association of musical notes with the qabalah. It can be found in his Highlights of the Tarot and elsewhere. It's probably online somewhere."
It's pretty simple: The 12 semi-tones of the chromatic scale relate to the 12 primary, secondary, and tertiary colors with C = red, C# = red-orange, etc.
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Does that mean that the zodiac is as arbitrary as a chromatic scale, or RYB color theory?
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
"Does that mean that the zodiac is as arbitrary as a chromatic scale, or RYB color theory?"
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, since neither the zodiac nor the chromatic musical scale is arbitrary.
It's an assignment of 12 notes to 12 colors, and these colors are those assigned successively, by Qabalists, to the 12 simple letter of the Hebrew alphabet which, in turn, corresponde to the 12 zodiacal signs.
But the assignment is to the colors themselves. Thus, E is yellow; but this is not only Leo, but also Beth and Aleph.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, since neither the zodiac nor the chromatic musical scale is arbitrary."
The chromatic scale that we use in most of western pop music is arbitrary. It's impossible to tune to a 12 note chromatic scale to make all intervals "ideal", so we have at least 8 compromise systems (western music, equal tempered, makes every key equally off-key so that we can modulate with fretted and keyboard instruments). Even Pythagorean tuning (based on harmonic overtone ratios) has one very out-of-tone interval in each key (a "wolf interval"), and in music written for this tuning, those 2 notes have to be avoided, harmonic modulation is impossible on a fretted or keyed instrument, and limited even on fret-less instruments.
Pitch is also arbitrary. A=440 is by no means universal. Historically, the frequency of A has varied tremendously. In the 18th century, from 380Hz to 480Hz - 4 semitones! Even now, while 440 is the most common, it's 442 in most continental European orchestras, 445 in Germany, Austria and China.
And, many scale systems have used much more, or much less, than 12 notes.
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Of course. I didn't understand what you meant by "arbitrary."
Yes, the objective physical phenomena can be fit into labels in a number of different ways. The method chosen for labelling is, in this sense arbitrary. Same with color labels.
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And I'm certainly being pedantic about it. I guess I might be looking for a universal objective reality, and being very all or nothing about it.
When in reality, are we just training ourselves to learn correspondences in order to give our unconscious greater methods of communication with us? And so, small variations that might be huge to, for example, my Virgo/Hod sensibility might be rather irrelevant to the part of me that has something useful to tell me?
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, since neither the zodiac nor the chromatic musical scale is arbitrary."The chromatic scale that we use in most of western pop music is arbitrary. It's impossible to tune to a 12 note chromatic scale to make all intervals "ideal", so we have at least 8 compromise systems (western music, equal tempered, makes every key equally off-key so that we can modulate with fretted and keyboard instruments). Even Pythagorean tuning (based on harmonic overtone ratios) has one very out-of-tone interval in each key (a "wolf interval"), and in music written for this tuning, those 2 notes have to be avoided, harmonic modulation is impossible on a fretted or keyed instrument, and limited even on fret-less instruments.
Pitch is also arbitrary. A=440 is by no means universal. Historically, the frequency of A has varied tremendously. In the 18th century, from 380Hz to 480Hz - 4 semitones! Even now, while 440 is the most common, it's 442 in most continental European orchestras, 445 in Germany, Austria and China.
And, many scale systems have used much more, or much less, than 12 notes."
The systems of Music are only as arbitrary as any other system. Conventions must be obeyed in order to communicate.
Frequencies differ: but the scale structure evolves the same way from every root tone. Many trees, many roots, one fundamental idea. Of course there are differences: that is what we are here to resolve.
What I am trying to do here is lay bare the fundamental structure of the spheres, and map their harmonies and dissonances in a way that can be translated into form. This is no more than has already been done, but new cultures and idioms (and new aeons
) need new systems of classification. Music is a form of communication ideal for the transformation of consciousness. It communicates in a way that transcends internal barriers. An admirable form of healing and transformation, if you ask me.Our concept of the "ideal" is ever changing. In the Middle Ages, "imperfect" or Minor intervals were considered evil and unwholesome. Such is not now the case, and Minor intervals are employed harmoniously. The same thing happened with jazz, and all manner of intervals have been shown to be useful and harmonious.
All things cooperate together for good. What we are seeking here is unity, not dissonance. It is much easier to find problems than solutions.
"And I'm certainly being pedantic about it. I guess I might be looking for a universal objective reality, and being very all or nothing about it."
The Virgo native often suffers from the "imperfection complex." The tendency is to criticise negatively, that is, to focus on what is wrong rather than what is right. We remember the Solve, but forget the Coagula. In other words, we tend to analyze, which consists of division, but not to synthesize, which involves union. (I say "we" because I have Virgo rising. Don't think I don't suffer from this.
) The true critic is the impartial seer, and views everything in the Balance, seeing the imperfect and the perfect as one, and Willing the dissonant to Unity.In the case of music, one immediately sees: 12 keys, 12 signs; 7 tones, 7 planets. The ancients, who understood the Harmonia Mundi (World Harmony), also understood that a basic Unity pervades all things, and expresses itself in two ways, (Yin/Yang, etc.) One recalls Crowley's equaton 0=2. The source of this basic Unity is the goal towards which we strive, and seeing as it is No-thing, it is really Nowhere we are going. This is a profoundly comforting thought, as it enables us to realize that everything is just as arbitrary as everything else. Just as language is an arbitrary convention that enables us to communicate with each other, so the Universe is an arbitrary convention that allows us to communicate with the Divine.
And that is what we're working towards. We seek to resolve every chord, and perfect every division. All co-relates, and it is these relations that comprise the system of classification we call the "Qabalah."
"It's pretty simple: The 12 semi-tones of the chromatic scale relate to the 12 primary, secondary, and tertiary colors with C = red, C# = red-orange, etc."
Thank you. That's just the sort of basic information I've been looking for.
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
"When in reality, are we just training ourselves to learn correspondences in order to give our unconscious greater methods of communication with us?"
That's certainly there, but perhaps only as "icing on the cake." At the very least, using the system under discussion leverages a objective relationship between rising auditory pitch and rising optical vibration rate so that, even if "starting point alignment" ultimately appears as arbitrary, the relative changes are using two different sense channels for a single idea.
Thus, when one chants Gabriel (G B R Y A L) as Gah-Ab-Ree-Ee-Ay-El (one even syllable per letter), visualizing Blue, Yellow, Orange, Yellow-Green, Yellow, Green, while hitting each syllable on G#, E, D, F, E, F#, the color changes and sound changes parallel each other.
But there is also some indication that the "starting point alignment" is good. That's a long story, and I'd have to look stuff up to document it.
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@JPF said
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"Has anybody brought the Qabalah into correspondence with Music?"So, as I can see it: 7 musical Tones (A B C D E F G)=Seven Classical Planets
12 Musical Keys=The 12 signs of the Zodiac
The question remains: which Tones relate to which Planet? Which Key to which Signs?
Thoughts?"
The Greeks attributed the seven planets to the seven modes, & the twelve zodiac signs to the chromatic scale. The 4 elements are represented on the octave ranges of bass, tenor, alto, & soprano.
This site might be of interest to you:
www.cs.utk.edu/~Mclennan/BA/GEM/index.html
729
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@Arsihsis said
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The Greeks attributed the seven planets to the seven modes, & the twelve zodiac signs to the chromatic scale. The 4 elements are represented on the octave ranges of bass, tenor, alto, & soprano."Now we're talking! Thank you ever so much.
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@JPF said
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@Arsihsis said
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The Greeks attributed the seven planets to the seven modes, & the twelve zodiac signs to the chromatic scale. The 4 elements are represented on the octave ranges of bass, tenor, alto, & soprano."Now we're talking! Thank you ever so much."
You might be interested in the method of 'chance Tarot' music I use. I got the idea from John Cage's musical experiments with the I Ching.
If you remove the Trumps & court cards from from a Tarot deck you are left with 36 decan cards that have attributed them a sign, planet, suit, & number. I use these as an indication to the key, mode, octave, & time signature in which I play. I also use the title of the card as an indication to the 'mood' or 'direction' of the music.
729
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@Arsihsis said
"You might be interested in the method of 'chance Tarot' music I use. I got the idea from John Cage's musical experiments with the I Ching.
If you remove the Trumps & court cards from from a Tarot deck you are left with 36 decan cards that have attributed them a sign, planet, suit, & number. I use these as an indication to the key, mode, octave, & time signature in which I play. I also use the title of the card as an indication to the 'mood' or 'direction' of the music."
Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. A simple, organic method of Occult Composition.
I can see it now: "The Hanged Man Symphony, Op. 93, K666"
Speaking of which, Mozart's "Jupiter Symphony" is an excellent example of this kind of composition. The energy it evokes is--well, Jupiterian!
Thanks again!
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This has been an intriguing subject for me for some time, as I believe that the universe is composed of sound (the music of the spheres).
A few years ago, there was a discovery of musical notes encoded in the famous Templar, Rosslyn Chapel, using a system called Cymatics.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy2Dg-ncWoY
www.crystalinks.com/cymatics.html
www.crystalinks.com/stuart07.html
www.cropcirclesecrets.org/crop_circles_sound.html
www.aniwilliams.com/geometry_music_healing.htmEnjoy!
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@Arsihsis said
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@JPF said
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@Arsihsis said
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The Greeks attributed the seven planets to the seven modes, & the twelve zodiac signs to the chromatic scale. The 4 elements are represented on the octave ranges of bass, tenor, alto, & soprano."Now we're talking! Thank you ever so much."
You might be interested in the method of 'chance Tarot' music I use. I got the idea from John Cage's musical experiments with the I Ching.
If you remove the Trumps & court cards from from a Tarot deck you are left with 36 decan cards that have attributed them a sign, planet, suit, & number. I use these as an indication to the key, mode, octave, & time signature in which I play. I also use the title of the card as an indication to the 'mood' or 'direction' of the music.
729"
Can you give a quick example?
I see that the mode would correspond to one of the seven planets (which mode to which planet?); The sign, to the key (again, what's the correspondence?); suit = octave (bass, alto, tenor, soprano = which octave to which suit?); number is time signature(how do figure that?); the tile = mood(O.K.).
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@nderabloodredsky said
"I see that the mode would correspond to one of the seven planets (which mode to which planet?)"
Sol = Dorian (modern Phrygian)
Luna = Hypodorian (modern Aeolian)
Mercury = Hypophrygian (modern Locrian)
Venus = Hypolydian (modern Ionian)
Jupiter = Lydian
Saturn = Mixolydian (modern Iocrian)@nderabloodredsky said
"The sign, to the key (again, what's the correspondence?)"
Aries - Pisces = C - B
@nderabloodredsky said
"suit = octave (bass, alto, tenor, soprano = which octave to which suit?)"
Pantacles = bass
Swords = alto
Cups = tenor
Wands = soprano@nderabloodredsky said
"number is time signature(how do figure that?)"
2 = 2/4
3 = 3/4
4 = 4/4
5 = 5/4
6 = 6/8
7 = 7/8
9 = 9/8
10 = 10/8729
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@JPF said
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"Has anybody brought the Qabalah into correspondence with Music?"So, as I can see it: 7 musical Tones (A B C D E F G)=Seven Classical Planets
12 Musical Keys=The 12 signs of the Zodiac
The question remains: which Tones relate to which Planet? Which Key to which Signs?
Thoughts?"
While pondering this post I came across a book by Corinne Heline called the Cosmic Harp. It relates the solar system and the zodiac to musical notes and composers of the early 20th century. It's an old book copyright by J.F. Rowny Press, but perhaps you can find a copy. Quite an interesting read along this train of thought.
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Cool link, and an interesting discussion-thanks. I'm curious as to how the correspondences were developed/discovered. The system I normally see used (and I haven't seen Case's, but I assume it's the same) came from Allen Bennett's notes, or so I've read. Does anyone know any further history or rationale?
Thanks!
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the german composer Karlhienze Stockhousen has developed a system that he says is alot like the music from the "beings" in the Sirius star system, which he says he visits from time to time LOL. You might want to check his music out, it's pretty crazy stuff! I think he also wrote a book about his theories, but I cant say for sure.