The List

Alias55A

" Jim Eshelman wrote:

    Jim Eshelman wrote:I recommend you physically acquire these books. They're intended to be the foundation of a library.


It seems to me that if someone is planning to devote the entirety of the rest of their lives to a singular pursuit, acquring basic startup materials shouldn't get in their way. Admittedly, it does take a while to gather some of these things.

Nonetheless... thanks for posting that link. It will surely help some folks.

I used to have thousands of books... muse

I was very attached to them and I enjoyed both collecting them and reading them. Then I moved abroad and coundn't take the books with me, nor store them, and I had to give them away.

So these days I have thousands of books on my hard drive and I convert them when I want them so I can read them on my psp.

Have you ever lost your library Jim? It's very... unsettling, but it's probably on a par with getting a new name for a trasformative life change. "

lol i got mabye 50 actual books in my library, well the whole shelf is full lol, but only like 3 books from thelema, although i do have all of A.C's published work for the most part, plus gigs and gigs on my hard drive of books covering almost anything that falls under the term esoteric, just too much to read and not enough time lol...

kuniggety

I'm with Jim on this. I think of myself as a techie and am still one of the relatively younger crowd but I can't get over the insistance of the need to DL everything. There's something about tracking down and actually purchasing the books in your library. There's something quite talismanic about having a book in your hand and learning from it. I'm big into computers, even studying computer science in college but I still prefer a book over some torrented pdf/txt file. And no, I don't find the expense too much...over the years, yeah, I've spent a helluva lot of money on books but if you can't afford it then there's probably something in the mundane world that you need to work on.

Mephisto

@Alrah said

"I used to have thousands of books... muse

I was very attached to them and I enjoyed both collecting them and reading them. Then I moved abroad and coundn't take the books with me, nor store them, and I had to give them away.

So these days I have thousands of books on my hard drive and I convert them when I want them so I can read them on my psp.

Have you ever lost your library Jim? It's very... unsettling, but it's probably on a par with getting a new name for a trasformative life change. "

My crazy Christian mother once threw out half my library while I was away travelling. She did it for "spiritual reasons." Jesus wouldn't want pagan literature in her home, you see.

I've never forgiven her. And yes, it was quite unsettling.

Alias55A

"My crazy Christian mother once threw out half my library while I was away travelling. She did it for "spiritual reasons." Jesus wouldn't want pagan literature in her home, you see.

I've never forgiven her. And yes, it was quite unsettling."

lol, i feel for you, my mother is a crazy holly roller new born christian, and i deal with alot of her crap too

thepuck

@JPF said

"
@Alrah said
"I used to have thousands of books... muse

I was very attached to them and I enjoyed both collecting them and reading them. Then I moved abroad and coundn't take the books with me, nor store them, and I had to give them away.

So these days I have thousands of books on my hard drive and I convert them when I want them so I can read them on my psp.

Have you ever lost your library Jim? It's very... unsettling, but it's probably on a par with getting a new name for a trasformative life change. "

My crazy Christian mother once threw out half my library while I was away travelling. She did it for "spiritual reasons." Jesus wouldn't want pagan literature in her home, you see.

I've never forgiven her. And yes, it was quite unsettling."

Ouch...

When I was 16 my girlfriend and I ran away together for four days. My grandparents, out of spite, tore down my father's drawings that I had up on my wall behind my altar (I have a thing for holy collage). They were on of a kind possessions, and at that time all I had of him. Now, I live near him and see him all the time (we are playing music together next saturday), but they were all I had then, and some of them were originals that he wishes he had access to now for business and personal reasons as well.

Still breaks my heart just to think about it. I can remember exactly how it felt to walk into my room after we came back and to them missing, torn to shreds, thrown in the trash.

I feel for you.

Mephisto

@Alias55A said

"lol, i feel for you, my mother is a crazy holly roller new born christian, and i deal with alot of her crap too "

Well, I can't blame her too much. In fact, I'm rather glad she drove this apple far, far from the tree.

But destroying books or art or any sort of knowledege is just unethical. While musing on the subject, I realized that Christian Fundamentalists have a lot in common with dictatorial regimes (like the Nazi party, etc.) It all starts with suppression of ideas.

And it's okay: I used the Bible she gave me as kindling. It just didn't look right on the bookshelf next to my Crowley collection.

Shunyata

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,

@JPF said

"But destroying books ... is just unethical.
I used the Bible she gave me as kindling."

Uh huh. I see.

There are pearls contained therein if one can but see through the dogma and past one's revulsion for the promulgators of the book.

Avshalom Binyamin

It's not like he burned the last copy...

Mephisto

@Shunyata said

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,

@JPF said

"But destroying books ... is just unethical.
I used the Bible she gave me as kindling."

Uh huh. I see.

There are pearls contained therein if one can but see through the dogma and past one's revulsion for the promulgators of the book."

Necessity is the mother of invention, friend. If you were living in an uninsulated forest shack all winter, you might have to make (not so) difficult choices as well. Besides, it was a bastardized NIV translation. I should have used it to wipe my arse.

But yes, I did contradict myself--like every other great religious teacher. And, for just twelve easy installments of $6.66, you can own, today, my book: "Contradiction: A Forgotten Wisdom." It also makes great kindling.

And don't get me started on the Bible, dude. My mother used to make me write out whole chapters of Proverbs for minor infractions: like breathing, or putting rat poison in my grandmother's coffee. It's personal.

"It's not like he burned the last copy..."

Alias55A

"It's not like he burned the last copy..."

bibles are very good for kindling, so are last supper paintings, and rugs, hand made last supper quilts with jesus christ pillows and blankets and anything on the related subject that can be set on fire

"JPF wrote:But destroying books ... is just unethical.
I used the Bible she gave me as kindling."

lol, burning a bible, unethical? Naw!

once, me and my wife, along with her stepson cleaned out this house that had so much christian stuff stacked in piles we didnt know what to do with ourselves, so we set up a bon fire. We burned over 20 bibles + other countless other items on the subject, quite a big toasty bonfire as i danced in circles around the thing.

Yes bibles are good for kindling, and rolling dubies... hehe

Anonymous

Seems like burning any book would only have the effect of "burning" its importance to you (even negative importance) into your subconscious.

I've always wondered the same thing about Crowley's comment about TBOL:

"It is wise to destroy this copy... after the first reading..."

AliceKnewIt

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@Jim Eshelman said
"I recommend you physically acquire these books. They're intended to be the foundation of a library."

It seems to me that if someone is planning to devote the entirety of the rest of their lives to a singular pursuit, acquring basic startup materials shouldn't get in their way. Admittedly, it does take a while to gather some of these things.

Nonetheless... thanks for posting that link. It will surely help some folks."

Yes, I agree, there's nothing like having a real book.
I can't read anything very long online, and to print out an entire book on my printer, is clumsy,

It's frustrating, though, that so many books are out of print. "Magick Without Tears" "The Vision and the Voice" and others....

Mephisto

@Alias55A said

"lol, burning a bible, unethical? Naw!

once, me and my wife, along with her stepson cleaned out this house that had so much christian stuff stacked in piles we didnt know what to do with ourselves, so we set up a bon fire. We burned over 20 bibles + other countless other items on the subject, quite a big toasty bonfire as i danced in circles around the thing.

Yes bibles are good for kindling, and rolling dubies... hehe "

A great way to welcome the New Aeon: burn Bibles! We should have a National Thelemite Bible-Burning Gathering.

I mean, c'mon, the Fundamentalists burnt the Beatles' records by the zillions. If they can burn good music, why can't we burn outdated, badly translated literature? The Dead Sea scrolls are one thing, but our American translations of the Bible are hopelessly corrupt; and they translate "Elohim" as a masculine singular, when it is really a feminine plural.

It's up to us to eliminate such sexist propoganda.

"Seems like burning any book would only have the effect of "burning" its importance to you (even negative importance) into your subconscious.

I've always wondered the same thing about Crowley's comment about TBOL:

"It is wise to destroy this copy... after the first reading...""

Anybody done this? raises hand

I don't know why they put the Tunis Comment with Liber AL. Crowley was obviously trippin' out about something. I heard that some girl killed herself after reading the book, but I'm not certain of this. At any rate, I've yet to meet a Thelemite who takes the Tunis Comment seriously.

Luckily I only burnt the photocopied take-home Liber AL they give out at the Temple. Burnt nicely, I might add.

AliceKnewIt

" A great way to welcome the New Aeon: burn Bibles! We should have a National Thelemite Bible-Burning Gathering.

I mean, c'mon, the Fundamentalists burnt the Beatles' records by the zillions. If they can burn good music, why can't we burn outdated, badly translated literature? The Dead Sea scrolls are one thing, but our American translations of the Bible are hopelessly corrupt; and they translate "Elohim" as a masculine singular, when it is really a feminine plural.

It's up to us to eliminate such sexist propoganda.

"

Have fun, but I couldn't bring myself to burn a book, too much of a censorship message.

I do engage in a practice called "altered books" - I would alter a bible, it's more satisfying to me, though admittedly a lot more work than burning one.

Tinman

"I couldn't bring myself to burn a book, too much of a censorship message."

I know exactly what you are talking about - BUT when I read this I was immediately stricken by how "old world" this sounded. I can't think of how much crap goes in my computer's trash bin everyday without a second thought, but just because some hack had his words published then all of a sudden the material object gathers this majesty simply because it's a book. But print that same story in a magazine and who cares if it gets set ablaze. Or make it a digital file and care even less. Books - the intellectual sacred cow?

Corvinae

Yikes!
This whole book burning talk has my skin crawling with goose bumps......

I have worked for over 20 years in different libraries, public, private and acedemic. I have cleaned out at least 5 estates that I kid you not were almost floor to ceiling books. I myself have a collection of probably almost 5,000 hard copies.

I have recently been put in charge of our local library's yearly book sale. Through out the year the library recieves donations of books from patrons. We must sort and categorize, alphabetize and present the books for the annual fund raiser (last year they sold almost $10,000 worth of second hand books, and library discards).

You would be amazed at teh books that people give away. Some are rare and collectable that sell for quite a lot of money, while others go right intothe recycle bin as the spines are broken, water damaged, old outdated science texts.....Librarians are actually taught how to weed out collections and purchase books that will not become outdated.

I would like you all to know that here in the USA, most public libraries participate in what is called Inter Library Loan. Which means that all those out of print books you want to read, maybe borrowed (possibly with a fee, depending on the text) from where ever the book is held. I have read some very hard to find books that way, Many of my original AC reading came this way, as my library had him in Reference, which meant I could not take him home with me. If any one would like more information please ask, or just stop int to your local library. (yes I am plugging, but hey it is a public service announcement;) There is nothing like having the hard copy in front of you. Unfortunately, I will also let you know that esoteric and occult texts are one of the most popular books stolen/lost from libraries, unfortunalety this means many libraries will not lend them out, and keep them behind the desk. one rotten apple, so to speak can spoil the whole barrel.

I am working on a spell to bring to me rare and collectable books. I seem to have a great knack for having things fall into my path, so I figured I should work with the universe on this.
Any ideas on how to bring some Crowley texts? or others?? I do realize that death is pretty much the only way m ost people will part with certain books, as well as moving, or illness. I am not doing this to capitalize on them, meaning I am not intending to turn around and make a buck, I just dont want to see them end up in the recycle bin.

I dont see burning a book as the most effective way to transmute its energy. Yes you get off on the flames, and the warmth, and the ego stroke, but I think proper recycling is much better:) Turn the crudy books back into pulp, and let them transform into toliet paper, or Kleenex:).
I for one would get more satisfaction out of knowing that I was wiping .......ok I am a lady and wont go there...but I think you get my drift.

AliceKnewIt

Well, I will put in another plug for altered books,

There was a library (I forget where) some assh*le homophone defaced all of the LGBT books, every single one in their collection. So the library, took all these defaced books, and put out a call to artists to use them for altered books. They sent out a book to each artist, who decorated it however they liked. Then the artists sent them back to the library and there was a show.

I didn't get to see the show, but I loved the concept.

I hate it when people steal or deface library books.

On the other hand, I have read that public libraries will discard books if not enough people check them out. And yes, the pulp fiction gets checked out more often than the rare classics. I read an essay by a librarian complaining how libraries will discard out of print classics because no one is checking out the books. Another friend of mine is a librarian, she often rescues books from the trash bin.

Some libraries have a little shop where they sell the discarded books.

Jim Eshelman

@Veronica said

"Yikes!
This whole book burning talk has my skin crawling with goose bumps......"

Agreed. I don't care what the book is, only that it was burned because of its content (instead of, say, being radioactive and infested with plague).

Although, come to think of it, those two scenarios are pretty much the same: In either case, someone is concerned that the contents are infectious and will spread!

Bad ideas speak for themselves just as much as good ideas. Let people decide on their own.

Mephisto

@Jim Eshelman said

"Although, come to think of it, those two scenarios are pretty much the same: In either case, someone is concerned that the contents are infectious and will spread!"

In my case I was actually rather cold.

The fact that it was a Bible was only an excuse for humor. I also burnt lots of other material deserving censorship, like George Orwell, and a Greek dictionary.

To tell the truth, this winter I was forced to burn my entire library (sans two or three Crowley books and my Tarot deck) for fuel. This allowed me to take an amused stance towards material things in general.

All this you see is only so much dust.

Jim Eshelman

Ah, now, for fuel changes the picture! Sorry you had to do that... and a real shame about the books. But burning for physical survival is a whole 'nuther thing than burning for the preservation of intellectual prejudices.