Book of Job
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I remember as a little kid being fascinated by the description of behemoth and leviathan... and having been told by my ultra-literalist teachers that behemoth was the giant hippo, I went drawing hippos on everything...
There’s lots and lots of other obvious symbolism in Job. It’s interesting that you point out that he is “beloved”, and paradoxically so, since according to Strong’s “Job” means “hated”.
There’s obvious symbolism in his possessions. He has 7 sons and 3 daughters; 7,000 sheep and 3,000 camels; 500 oxen and 500 female servants.
A very interesting verse is in the beginning of Elihu’s speech (Job 32:7, 8 ) where he starts by talking about being the young man in the group:
“I thought, ‘days speak, and increased years teach wisdom (chakemah חָכְמָֽה from chokmah)’ but it’s a man’s spirit (ruach רֽוּחַ) and the breath (nishmat נִשְׁמַ֖ת from neshamah) of the almighty (shaddai שַׁדַּ֣י) that that gives understanding (tabinem תְּבִינֵֽם same root as binah בוּנָ֑ה)”
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
"There’s lots and lots of other obvious symbolism in Job. It’s interesting that you point out that he is “beloved”, and paradoxically so, since according to Strong’s “Job” means “hated”."
I've generally found Strong unsatisfying in controversial cases. I don't trust him for other than simplistic rendering.
In comparison, Gesenius and Jastrow both refuse to translate it, finding the meaning unknown. (The same is true of most others.) I scarcely think that I can do better than they, though I have a hard time shaking the similarity of the correct pronunciation of his name, Iyyov, from Jove. The name is barely different from the very meaningful root AVB (!) which means either a water-carrier or a magician/wizard, etc. But, with these pure speculations, I wander down trails where minds have failed that have given their entire lives to such studies, so I doubt I'm doing more than doodling.
@32:7, 8 said
"“I thought, ‘days speak, and increased years teach wisdom (chakemah חָכְמָֽה from chokmah)’ but it’s a man’s spirit (ruach רֽוּחַ) and the breath (nishmat נִשְׁמַ֖ת from neshamah) of the almighty (shaddai שַׁדַּ֣י) that that gives understanding (tabinem תְּבִינֵֽם same root as binah בוּנָ֑ה)”"
I tend to think that Shaddai was the Name of Job's HGA.
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Sometimes I wish I had been brought up knowing the bible stories.
I have tried to read the Books, but well, it honestly doenst do anything good for me......I enjoyed reading this and trying to figure out what you are talking about. (VBG).
Thank you very much for sharing it. I admit I have no clue about these abbrviations and numbers (which I infer are Tree of Life correspondences, grades and paths?). I even went and read several books of Job. Esp. ch. 28 which you had mentioned the Elohim. As I understood from my previous gleenings Job was tested by Satan. As a youth I had a great love affair with Satan, I saw Him as a misunderstood Angel, an entity doing his job (his True Will), and most agast to my father an entity that was still dearly loved by the Gods. For a preteen I was pretty unsettling.The man who introduced me to "93/93" also tried to get me into LaVey. Crowley resonated with me for his brilliance, LaVey seemed like a used car salesman, not to be trusted.I have been thinking alot about Satan again lately, whom I know is not Lucifer but is often mistaken for. I have been reading some material lately that is touching upon something called The Lucifer Experiment. I have a very limited knowledge of Crowleys writtings but wondered if he ever touched/talked about Lucifer, the Elohim and the Expierement? I tried reading his book about Atlantis, which I think may have gotten into it. In working with Sacred geometery I have seen how math is the underlaying principle of creation, yet since nature cannot manifest the Golden Mean (perfect-godlike) , and has to create using the Fibononcci sequence the pattern created is misaligned and off. Very ineresting stuff, espically when you think about the fact that the most beloved, the most godlike angel-Lucifer is creating!
BTW have you read Carl Jungs classic of the Book of Job? Supposed to be great stuff, so my mentor says. He really dispells the nature of evil and initiations.
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93,
Jim may I ask, what sources you use to translate the Book of Job? An interlinear bible with Strong’s, The Torah or something else?
"Quote JAE: In 13:13 he openly accepts all phenomena that may occur ("let come on me what will"). 14:14 is rather remarkable."
Is this the verse?
"KJV Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. "
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@Ankh said
"Jim may I ask, what sources you use to translate the Book of Job? An interlinear bible with Strong’s, The Torah or something else?"
I have access to all of those, and (when I originally wrote it) either used an interlinear or side-by-side copies in Hebrew and KJV. - I only rely on Strong for quick reference on simple things. For Hebrew literature of that era (especially scriptural Hebrew), I usually rely on (and, in this case, surely relied on) Gesenius as my standard. (Getting very deep into the First Millennium of the Christian Era, I rely on Jastrow substantially.)
But there wasn't much translation here. Most of this, notice, was just identifying which Divine Name was used in a given situation. "And a bunch of gematria.
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"Quote JAE: In 13:13 he openly accepts all phenomena that may occur ("let come on me what will"). 14:14 is rather remarkable."Is this the verse?
"KJV Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. "
"Yes, that was the line. Read it in context. It's a threshold shift. "...till my change come." It's followed by the only answer an Adept can bring to the HGA: "Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands."
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JAE, 93,
"The real start of the process of confronting the Abyss begins at least by 6=5. A lot of the "severity" of the grade is the direct impact of Binah on it, and Job's experiences are highly reminiscent of the 6=5 stage."
Okay, that set my mind buzzing. So the severity is not intrinsic to the energy of Mars, or not entirely so? Related to this, I've always thought Adjustment/Lamed, which is attributed to Libra, reflects Saturn's being exalted in Libra, rather than the Venus-as-Ruler side of Libra. It represents the structuring aspect of the power of Saturn.
Also, are you implying that the Exempt Adept is more under the sway of Chokmah, immediately above Chesed, or is such an Adept experiencing more the Bright Fertile Mother aspect of Binah? That is, in the sense of, First you get the "nasty" side in Geburah, then you get the "nice" side of Binah in Chesed?
There's a related issue, it occurs to me, with the paths that cross the Abyss. I realize the Tree is always something of a theoretical construct; but if the Abyss is empty, how does it have something as structured as five distinct paths running through it?
93 93/93,
Edward
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@Edward Mason said
"So the severity is not intrinsic to the energy of Mars, or not entirely so?"
I don't think any part of the Tree exists only in itself. A key perspective on the Tree (and one which I think Fortune developed better than anyone, at least for the Sephiroth) is that each thing exists in itself by its relationship to other aspects. So yeah, it all fits together.
Someplace (I'd have to dig to find it), Crowley wrote of the "Three Portals to the Abyss" in a way that made clear that he was speaking of Tiphereth, Geburah, and Chesed (or, rather, of the 5=6, 6=5, and 7=4 grades). So the 6=5 Grade can be conceived in this sense as the Second Gate to the Abyss.
"Related to this, I've always thought Adjustment/Lamed, which is attributed to Libra, reflects Saturn's being exalted in Libra, rather than the Venus-as-Ruler side of Libra. It represents the structuring aspect of the power of Saturn."
Yes, the Lamed ideas merge into Geburah well in the approach. (Which means they're also a significant part of the 5=6 experience.) But the Venus part is there. Saturn "holds one to the law" but there is no acrimony or punishment element therein. Lamed is also a path of love - the whole assumption of conscious responsibility for karma is a gift of love - and Lamed, of course, is the female mate to Aleph in the key formula of Liber Legis.
"Also, are you implying that the Exempt Adept is more under the sway of Chokmah, immediately above Chesed, or is such an Adept experiencing more the Bright Fertile Mother aspect of Binah? That is, in the sense of, First you get the "nasty" side in Geburah, then you get the "nice" side of Binah in Chesed?"
The G.D. level Chesed grade is definitely a reflection of and response to Chokmah especially. In the A.'.A.'. level, the Exempt Adept is "beneath the Supernals, in service to them" in a broader sense and, of course, is preparing for the significant initiation to Binah that is ahead. But much of the nature of 7=4 is explained (or, let's say, easy to understand) by understanding the Path of Vav and the way that the Exempt Adept is the repository of Wisdom (being as much Water to Chokmah's Fire as is Binah).
"There's a related issue, it occurs to me, with the paths that cross the Abyss. I realize the Tree is always something of a theoretical construct; but if the Abyss is empty, how does it have something as structured as five distinct paths running through it?"
Paths are not, themselves, "something." They aren't objective, that is. They are relationships. They are of the nature of Going and, therefore, leave no secure place to stand still.
BTW I've often been intrigued that the three vertical Paths crossing the Abyss are the only three lunar paths on the Tree: Gimel, Cheth, and Vav (Moon, Cancer, Taurus). This does seem to say a lot about what is required in the process. That is, it is one of surrender and momentum, not of will and direction. (Etc.)
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JAE 93,
Thanks. Much to munch on there.
93 93/93,
Edward
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93,
"Quote JAE: I have access to all of those, and (when I originally wrote it) either used an interlinear or side-by-side copies in Hebrew and KJV. - I only rely on Strong for quick reference on simple things. For Hebrew literature of that era (especially scriptural Hebrew), I usually rely on (and, in this case, surely relied on) Gesenius as my standard. (Getting very deep into the First Millennium of the Christian Era, I rely on Jastrow substantially.)"
Thank you for the generous answer Jim. Also, I would be very grateful if you or someone else could shed some light on which books in the Christian bible are also Qabalistic works such as Job?
"Quote JAE: But there wasn't much translation here. Most of this, notice, was just identifying which Divine Name was used in a given situation. "And a bunch of gematria."
I see, that is suggestive.
"Quote JAE: Yes, that was the line. Read it in context. It's a threshold shift. "...till my change come." It's followed by the only answer an Adept can bring to the HGA: "Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.""
Also, is this a threshold shift to Briah? -
@Ankh said
"Also, I would be very grateful if you or someone else could shed some light on which books in the Christian bible are also Qabalistic works such as Job?"
Pretty much all of them. The first five, for sure. But even the histories (e.g., Kings) are strongly Kabbalistic.
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"Quote JAE: Yes, that was the line. Read it in context. It's a threshold shift. "...till my change come." It's followed by the only answer an Adept can bring to the HGA: "Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.""Also, is this a threshold shift to Briah?"
Not per se. It might by a symptom of one, and is particularly marked in an Adept, but can be a "right state" realized even earlier. But yes, you are correctly discerning a Briatic aspect to the relationship implied in that phrase.
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<bump>
(Some people wanted to find this more easily.)
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Enjoyed re-reading it. There's something singular about the book, in relation to the rest of the OT.
"Beginning in 40:15 there is an instruction in kundalini. Behemoth (BHMVTh = 453 = NPSh ChIH, Nephesh Chiah, "breath of life"), the kundalini, is established strongly in the loins; its force is raised to the navel region (the second chakra). I think v. 17 refers to a reflexive response of the genitals. His "columns" (the lateral channels) are of alchemical Venus (brass) and Mars (iron). All the rest of this paragraph describes the kundalini phenomena in minute detail if one will but look!"
I dunno, when I read it just now, it seemed to do a little more than just 'describe' the phenomena.
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Really interesting analysis of The Book of Job, specially contrasting this with what Jung write about Job and the evolution of God conception in his essay “Answer to Job”. It´s the one in which Jung talk about how Job´s behaviour to the absolute irrationality of God (who, being omnipotent and omniscient, do that to Job, knowing already what will happen) mark a decisive point for the posterior development of the conception of God (or auto development of God itself, knowing it already what will happen with Job´s case) in the New Testament and Christianity beginnings.
By the way, here goes a little Job´s sketch I did for a future more accurate painting for my (yes, influenced by Crowley´s Book of Lies) project Universal Joke. Just sharing it, but sorry for the spam anyway: universaljoke.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/job.html
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No, you're not.
U'd do it again, right? -
Seems like where cursed by such a lack of undestanding between you and I, but I love you anyway, Jim.
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Jim Eshelman:
"No, you're not.
U'd do it again, right? "Wait, you were referring to the sharing of my blog, isn´t? Hahaha.. my goddess, I had no idea what are you talking about...
Sorry, yes, I´d do it again, hehe. -
Yes. I was referring to your saying you were sorry. I was observing that you probably aren't. You'd do it again.
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Jim Eshelman:
"I was referring to your saying you were sorry."
Fuk! You caught me.
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Well, as far as spam goes, linking to share something we created is pretty low on the spam-meter. I do it myself (unapologetically and often).
I liked your painting. For some reason it reminded me of Jonah more than Job. Perhaps it was the upside-down perspective of the subject, which reminded me of the Hanged Man card, and the watery associations between that card and Jonah.
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Avshalom Binyamin:
"I liked your painting. For some reason it reminded me of Jonah more than Job. Perhaps it was the upside-down perspective of the subject, which reminded me of the Hanged Man card, and the watery associations between that card and Jonah."
Thanks! Interesting point about Jonah. Really, I don’t thought in Job until I made the first drawing sketch and started to paint. Apart, the first drawing sketch was originally not upside down, I have to admit that the Mem card had a little influence in my decision, though the principal idea is that no matter that the painting is upside down, because the (impossible) posture of Job, in relation with the point of view, make that no matter such thing..
But for now it´s a sketch and a provisional thing, I progressively add other things, or change others. I want, in fact, that all this paintings evolve and will be made following only the intuition, inspired always by different and unexpected ways. You are right wondering about the Tarot, in fact the idea is make a sort of personal Tarot, could be said, made of such hieroglyphics and so on. Anyway, is soon yet for a general idea, I started this just a year ago, not yet.