How to discover the hour of birth?
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there is something called rectification of the birthchart, but could be done only by an astrologer who is a real expert... important life events (particular dates, as well as whole years) are used, combined with some assumptions based on the dominant character traits (meaning especially those which obviously are not connected with the Luminaries and strong aspects, at least not directly and strongly so). it's not an easy job to do, but it's not impossible
but even than, time (and energy etc) spent on searching for info from the original documents is definitely worth it - that is, if you want to find out for sure in scientific terms...
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In the U.S., here is where you can learn where to write for birth records:
www.cdc.gov/nchs/w2w.htm -
@Alrah said
"The hour of birth is on US documents? Thanks interesting. It's not included on UK documents."
actually, I live in Europe (Novi Sad, Serbia)
. but I think birth time (hour and minute) is written in every birth certificate [not other documents, as far as I know..] - nowdays (20th century) it's probably so in every country in the world.
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but that data too can be suspicious..nurses and doctors and others tending to 'round' minutes or forget to write immediately and later write it from memory, etc.
so, for most-accurate-data --- this, together with direct info from mother (or some other counscious eyewitness of the birth event ) and rectification should be used... -
@danica said
"I think birth time (hour and minute) is written in every birth certificate [not other documents, as far as I know..] - nowdays (20th century) it's probably so in every country in the world.
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but that data too can be suspicious..nurses and doctors and others tending to 'round' minutes or forget to write immediately and later write it from memory, etc."Of course. But those are small errors (certainly small compared to "don't know what time of day at all"). And experience shows that those are often far closer than one might suspect - often right on the money within a couple of minutes.
"so, for most-accurate-data --- this, together with direct info from mother (or some other counscious eyewitness of the birth event
) and rectification should be used..."That advice won't work in the present case, of course. - I would tend to agree with you in terms of the broad time of day, especially with a first or (maybe) second child. But the mother, in the majority of cases, isn't the most reliable witness, especialling in the increasingly common circumstances of surgical delivery, increased anesthesia, etc. And few women remember the time that, say, their fourth child was born. I'd always trust an official birth record prepared by the hospital staff over the testimony of the mother unless they widely diverged (several hours) - and then I'd only assume that the mother's report was approximate.
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Thank you all for the help.
My birth certificate lists no time, probably due to some mess with the adoption process or something like that.
I will try to find it digging through the records, but thing aren't so easy down here in Brazil
If the search ends with no results I might go for a rectification.
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Crowley writes in "The General Principles of Astrology" that the Ascendant can and should be checked by a well-trained astrologer by judging physical characteristics. He admits that this method is not full proof, not because of inherent flaws in the system, but there are certain cases where the Dominant planet (the Lord/Lady of the Ascendant) is weak and ends up being overpowered by a stronger force.
So you can work backwards, so to speak.
Also, there is a method I recently read using radesthesia, or pendulum magick.
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But there's no real reliability in that method. Physical appearance is a tricky wicket at best in astrology, and one would be an ignorant fool to try to guess the Ascendant from it.
Mostly that's true of character, too (except for something decisive, such as a Moon-sign change). Mostly, though, the only thing one should rely on in rectification is well-timed events of the right type.
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My sister wanted her natal chart information but also had no birth time. She had 24 charts drawn up, one for everyhour. She read over them all, point by point. She decided that by the placements of the planets she was most likely born between 9 and 10 am. It was a long process but one that she needed to take for her path.
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@Alrah said
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@Veronica said
"It was a long process but one that she needed to take for her path."I hope you don't mind if I slightly diverge from the original topic here, but this commonly used phrase just caught my attention, and I began to reply over in my mind all the times I've heard it or a variation of it.
"I needed to do X for my path". You hear it a lot these days.
(I'm not getting at your Sis btw, Veronica) - I'm just interested in the fact that all the things that people need to do for thier path always seem very self-indulgent! Astrology charts, past life progression, going vegetarian, etc.etc.
You never hear anyone saying stuff like "You know - I used to feel I was superior to other people just because I had more than them, and so I went to do voluntary work in a homeless shelter for my path."
Or "I used to be really vain and concerned far more with what people looked like than who they were inside - so I started working in an old peoples home and I learned to respect some different perspectives aquired through age and experience - and this was really necessary for my path."
ok, I wrote something....a tad bit longer then I intended, but I liked the sunshine shining through the window....
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Well - maybe this ought to be discussed on a different thread."
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@Shiva Tseba'oth said
"I was adopted when I was 3 months old and my documents indicate no hour of birth. I have been studying some astrology and, so knowing exactly when I was born is a must.
Is there a method to discover the time of birth?
I ask this because navigating the bureaucracy of my home country in search of that would be an enormous and probably useless task."A competent Astrologer should be able to find the exact hour of birth in perhaps 80% of cases. It requires an accurate intuition and an ability to trace facts to their source. This method is called rectification. However, this sort of method is highly inaccurate these days owing to the lack of qualified astrologers. Obviously, anyone working in a Tropical system is going to go astray. The Sidereal practicioner is more of a rare breed, and among the minority who practice this method there are even fewer skilled at rectification.
Crowley, while lacking some of the technical elements of Astrology, was often able to deduce the Rising Sign by a person's appearance alone. This we can attribute to a superior intuition combined with a high degree of scientific accuracy.
Likewise, the trained Astrologer uses a variety of methods during Rectification:
First: physical characteristics. Most signs can be easily deduced by salient traits, such as facial forms and body shape, etc. (There is also a way to do this through palmistry, but that's a more complex issue.)
Second: empirical evidence. One checks to see if the Rising Sign lines up with the given timeframe. For instance: if one knows it was a night birth, this reduces the number of possible signs by half. There are many different ways to use this method.
Third: The history of the native. Every house rules a certain aspect of the native. An instance: We see that the native had an abusive father. We examine the various houses that might corroborate this. We see that Saturn is afflicted; to test this we place the Fourth house cusp at Capricorn (Ruled by Saturn) and check the Ascendant. This gives us Virgo Ascending. Does the native have keen features and a small frame? If so, we are one step closer to rectification.
See how the process works? It takes a lot of effort, but practice teaches. I've seen novice Astrologers pick up people's Rising Sign with uncanny accuracy. "Success is your proof."
So, in your case, let's examine the facts. You say you were adopted three months after your birth. You take this date and subtract the three months. This gives you the basic time frame. At this point we need to check different planetary positions based on your personality and physical characteristics. That gives us the day. Then we examine various Houses/Rising Signs to obtain the exact time.
Hope that was informative. If you want to post or PM me your info, I could give a more clear analysis of your situation.
As you Will,
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