Your HGA's name
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I'm confused. How are you differentiating these two things? Only by an intellectual decision? "Accepting the dweller as your HGA" (in any practical way that I can understand those words) amounts to binding your being in intimate union with an error. I'd call that "danger.""
My thinking was that, by refusing to identify any experience partaking of the nature of form (ie: anything partaking of the nature of Yetzirah) with K&C, the possibility of confusing the dweller and the HGA could be avoided.
From your comment above, I get the impression that the key to avoiding confusion between the dweller and the Angel is to look through the eyes of the Neschamah as opposed to the Ruach. In other words, the dweller speaks to the Ruach (or some aspects thereof), whereas the HGA speaks to the Neschamah.
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@Herr Meow said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I'm confused. How are you differentiating these two things? Only by an intellectual decision? "Accepting the dweller as your HGA" (in any practical way that I can understand those words) amounts to binding your being in intimate union with an error. I'd call that "danger.""My thinking was that, by refusing to identify any experience partaking of the nature of form (ie: anything partaking of the nature of Yetzirah) with K&C, the possibility of confusing the dweller and the HGA could be avoided."
I'm not at all sure that's right - especially because the dweller sits exactly on the threshold.
Perhaps more importantlym I'm not sure it's relevant here. This kind of misstep might be (very broadly) compared to a really bad LSD trip: It's about the imprinting, and the subtle decisions that are made during the experience. These can affect sub-consciousness for years after. - I'm mostly saying that the subtle, rapid decisions made in the face of this specific experience are unusually impactful (much more so than in most other experiences).
"From your comment above, I get the impression that the key to avoiding confusion between the dweller and the Angel is to look through the eyes of the Neschamah as opposed to the Ruach. In other words, the dweller speaks to the Ruach (or some aspects thereof), whereas the HGA speaks to the Neschamah."
I wouldn't argue with the first sentence, but I can't agree with the second one.
For one thing, long before the K&C the HGA may be communicating directly through subconsciousness in a way that arises into Ruach consciousness as dialogue (this is a particularly common 1=10 occurrence). The HGA doesn't speak to Neshamah except in the Master - one might better say, I think, speaks through Neshamah to subconsciousness. Again, read AC's comments on Liber Samekh: the primary permanent consequence of even the K&C is the permanent establishment of a channel from Neshamah to Nephesh (that is, of superconsciousness into subconsciousness), which is the domain wherein the K&C occurs.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I'm not at all sure that's right - especially because the dweller sits exactly on the threshold."
Heh - it's amazing how easy it is for me to read a phrase or title hundreds of times and yet still neglect to pay attention to the exact wording
@Jim Eshelman said
"It's about the imprinting, and the subtle decisions that are made during the experience."
The decisions, in this case, having to do with a mistaken equation between the dweller and the most primal expression of self?
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@Herr Meow said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"It's about the imprinting, and the subtle decisions that are made during the experience."The decisions, in this case, having to do with a mistaken equation between the dweller and the most primal expression of self?"
I go out of my way, usually, not to characterize what the HGA is.
Let's at least say: Mistakenly embracing the Dweller (or some other shadow-antithesis - what I'm in the habit of calling the Anti-Angel or "Unholy Stalking Demon") as that to which one molds oneself unreservedly, at the deepest accessible levels of oneself.
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That answers my question pretty well. Thank you for your responses.
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JAE 93,
"Again, read AC's comments on Liber Samekh: the primary permanent consequence of even the K&C is the permanent establishment of a channel from Neshamah to Nephesh (that is, of superconsciousness into subconsciousness), which is the domain wherein the K&C occurs."
There was a description of someone's K&C published in Black Pearl No. 6, which was very visceral. Are you saying there isn't much verbal/Ruach stuff happening, but rather the instincts and senses would receive the primary impact of the experience, with critical thinking and other Ruach phenomena presumably following after?
93 93/93,
Edward
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@Edward Mason said
"There was a description of someone's K&C published in Black Pearl No. 6, which was very visceral. Are you saying there isn't much verbal/Ruach stuff happening, but rather the instincts and senses would receive the primary impact of the experience, with critical thinking and other Ruach phenomena presumably following after?"
With the caveat that each person's experience is their own...
Broadly speaking, yeah, there's substantial displacement of Ruach. One way Crowley described this was, "the death of his old mind save in so far as his unconscious elements preserve its memory when they absorb it." And the essential characteristic of the experience is its extreme level of intimacy.
It took me years after the K&C to actually realize something consciously that I think should have been evident to me years before the experience. I was musing one day about why so many of the symbols regarding crossing the Abyss were Air related and, more generally, Ruach related. During this reflection, while thinking about contrasts and comparisons with the K&C, I realized that most of the symbols of that event are actually sublime expressions of Nephesh symbols - for example, most of them reduce to symbols of sexual union. And then it hit me: Yes, the fundamental accomplishment in the K&C is the permanent, unshakable establishment of the Angel in union with subconscious. Now, note that I'm not saying this is unconscious, in the sense of "unaware," because the Adept is consciously participating in the realm of subconsciousness. (This is the explanation of several things Crowley wrote over the years that have proven true in experience, e.g., that training in the Body of Light is the threshold experience in the approach to the HGA; and this differentiates the HGA experience of the Neophyte 1=10 from that of the Zelator 2=9; and so forth and so on.)
One way to say this symbolically is that one's subconsciousness is forged into the sanctuary where the Angel is received, and the Adept (like the heroes of many a saga) journeys into that hidden lair, past its dragons etc., to enter the sanctuary and into union with the Angel in a fashion most characterized by the place of meeting: That is, by overwhelming, self-displacing intimacy. And, having long drilled in the ability to have self-conscious and subconscious content coexist in waking times, the Adept is, theraefter, but a whisper away from the voice of the Angel - consciously and at will under the Angel's direction.
This leaves the appropriate heroically established Ruach to carry out the work of Adepthood. But, eventually, in one lifetime or another, this, too, must expire. Arthur, the Sun-King, eventually will fight his last battle, his heart pierced, his blood all spent, and (the key!) his sword hurled into the ancient waters from which it emerged, his his remnants born across the Great Waters by the three-fold goddess.
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JAE 93,
Thank you.
There has been so much said over the years that states or implies that K&C is Ruach-based - words spoken to listener, information passing into rational consciousness, an experience that is observed in some way ... and so on. This places K&C into a very different context.
93 93/93,
Edward
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As I say any chance I get
, "Knowledge & Conversation" does not mean "Facts & Chat."Now, things are consciously known, because ego-consciousness enters into and collaborates with subconsciousness. But, for example, one doesn't have to make it 'conscious' all at once. One form is that subconsciousness is imprinted with a whole body of knowledge (or, rather, with a complete pattern of a thing), and self-consciousness is able to access and draw on this as needed.
But the experience ... well, it's not for nothing that it's most often compared to nuptials.
I think the origin of the ideas you cite are two-fold. One big source is the original Golden Dawn. Their 5=6 grade was not at all the 5=6 of the A.'.A.'.. It more resembled (by work undertaken) an A.'.A.'. Neophyte 1=10 or (by symbolism) an A.'.A.'. Zelator 2=9. Many of its members had sufficently developed intuition (in the sense of inner-tuition) that, given teh contemporary meaning of "knowledge" and "conversation," their inner verbal guidance dialogues came to be thought of as K&C. This is, in fact, a common phenomenon for the A.'.A.'. 1=10 level - the so-called "Vision of Adonai" which (by most reports I've received from others) is more commonly auditory than visual.
The second cause is similar but more modern and less Golden Dawny. It's that people progress in the Work a little bit and have a very significant experience, a real sense of inner communion with something they trust and which guides them correctly. Because (again) of the contemporary meanings of "knowledge" and "conversation," and absence guidance from someone further along the Path, they take this to be the K&C. But, again, it's a much earlier step.
Despite the anti-Christian reactivity of many Thelemites, I turn to an important, beautiful Christian hymn for the best description I know of this fulfilled A.'.A.'. 1=10 experience. It's a hymn that has always moved me, and which captures this better than any other writing I've ever encountered. The song is "In the Garden" by C. Austin Miles, and I might as well reproduce the lyrics. (What follows is from Ray Charles' arrangement for Perry Como. I have substituted "The Sun, my God," for "The Son of God.")
"I come to the garden alone,
While the dew is still on the roses,
And the voice I hear falling on my ear,
[The Sun, my God] discloses.And He walks with me, and He talks with me,
And He tells me I am His own,
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
None other, has ever, known!He speaks and the sound of His voice,
Is so sweet the birds hush their singing,
And the melody that he gave to me,
Within my heart is ringing.And He walks with me, and He talks with me,
And He tells me I am His own,
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
None other, has ever, known! ..." -
93,
Jim: Referring to your earlier post of the subconscious becoming sanctuary for the Angel, and so on; very beautiful, poetic and offering me new inspiration for my own journey.
Really, thank you.
93, 93/93
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Thanks for sharing this, Iugum.
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Yes, Iugum, thank you.
I wonder how many people have in any way a similar experience. I suspect that it is quite a few. I know it resonated with me.
I was an a pretty destructive "Do what thou whim" course too (he would call us Thelomites would do no wrong), similarly imagining myself to be on a path that would free me from the consequences of "right" and "wrong". In retrospect, I would call my period "Shadow possession" brought about by rushing headlong into the unconscious after a lifetime of Persona-heavy repression.
I had to do a lot of back-tracking too. Last Fall I put all ritual (save LBRP and communion) on hold indefinitely, while I work at what sometimes feels like Remedial Pre-Magick. But patience and humility are probably very useful qualities for a person like me
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I remember Crowley being besides himself with joy when discovering via Greek gematria that Aiwaz = 418... So if the gematria of the HGA reveals True Will, the particular aspect of the Great Work one should be doing, are there any other techniques prior to KCHGA to approach the data on True Will? Could one, for example, do a gematria on the concept that one believes to be his or her True Will and gain an inkling of the HGA's name - or is that a road to self-deception?
Also, a slight off-tangent question. If True Will is unique for each person, is there not also an element of one's True Will that universally applies to all as well? I cannot help but think True Will is both unique and universal at the same time.. and it's that last aspect, the universality of it, that I'm interested in ascertaining..
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Would it be any less true or less individual if it just happened to be identical?
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Ok, that makes sense.
Which leads to my next question. If True Will is both individual and universal, why all the secrecy around the HGA?
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@he atlas itch said
"Ok, that makes sense."
Actually, I didn't make a statement. I asked a question. Whatever you think makes sense is whatever you thought up yourself
"Which leads to my next question. If True Will is both individual and universal, why all the secrecy around the HGA?"
I'm not sure what your question is; or, for that matter, what one necessarily has to do with the other.
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It's hard not to see how True Will is not both personal and universal given its grounding in Chokmah/Chiah. Unless one would want to argue that 418/Abrahadabra is a formula only for Crowley. The way I understand it, the particular focus of a person's True Will is unique for that person, in terms of why they incarnated, but it also applies on a universal level ("the Great Work").
So, my question is, if my True Will is ultimately not just for myself, but for all of humanity, and the name of my HGA will reveal the specifics of my True Will's formula, why has there traditionally been all this secrecy around attainment of the HGA? What is the logic for this secrecy - especially when Crowley himself did not stick to silence on his HGA's name and formula?
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@he atlas itch said
"So, my question is, if my True Will is ultimately not just for myself, but for all of humanity,"
It is.
"and the name of my HGA will reveal the specifics of my True Will's formula,"
It probablty won't. It reveals the key to your personal magical formula, but not necessarily an articulation of your True Will. (At least, in the handful of cases where all the facts of both are known to me, the Angel's name is not an articulation of the True Will without a pretty big stretch.)
To take one concrete example. It is clear that "Aiwass" A 93-418 embodied formulae critical to Crowley. But his True Will was "To teach the Next Step" ('Next Step' originally being understood as the K&C of the HGA, and later as the establishment of the Law of Thelema). The name "Aiwass" does not (by its letters or numeration or literal meaning) express the specific idea, "To teach the Next Step."
"why has there traditionally been all this secrecy around attainment of the HGA? What is the logic for this secrecy - especially when Crowley himself did not stick to silence on his HGA's name and formula?"
Many reasons. They generall deal with the fact that this Name is the most intimate connection of one's existence. It is symbolically equivalent to that "true name" that (as magick tradition accurately tells us) someone who knows it could have all power over you. It is something sacred beyond measure and, therefore, the thing (for you) that it would be most easy for someone else to blaspheme.
As for Crowley's decisions... I can't speak for him. I can guess, though, that the main point was that the name Aiwass had been made public in Liber Legis years before. The cow was out of the barn. He did, however, keep his Adeptus Minor magical motto secret until the day he died (even though he signed one early writing with it).
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Thanks Jim for that explanation. Btw like Iugum, I would also be interested to hear any tips on discovering one’s personal formula.
If I can clarify one minor point that I, and I’m sure others, have puzzled about – namely how Crowley came to realize that Aiwaz was his HGA. The following is my interpretation and I would be interested in feedback.
When Crowley was doing the Aiwaz invocations with Soror Fidelis, he came to realize that these communications were false. He then commenced to complete the Abramelin Operation solo. After 31 weeks of daily invoking, he attained to his HGA – which he describes as his consciousness merging with the universe and an illumination lasting for 3 weeks that everyone passing by him on the street noticed. It is obvious (to me, at least) that he is referring to full-blown kundalini illumination. Now one of the characteristics of this illumination is that it stirs up a lot of buried emotional stuff in the subconscious and long-held attitudes toward certain issues can suddenly reverse, leading to the opposite realization. Crowley wrote somewhere (I roughly paraphrase) that trances transcend dualities in the mind and lead to their reintegration on a higher level of awareness..
So my guess is, Crowley’s kundalini illumination must have led to the sudden realization that Aiwaz and Liber Legis, two things he hitherto felt strong resistance toward, was indeed his HGA and Liber Legis linked to his True Will.
Of course the above – in terms of how Crowley came to realize Aiwaz was his HGA - is never stated explicitly anywhere as far as I’m aware. Its strictly my interpretation, but I would be interested to know if that 1) corresponds with the known facts and 2) whether others find this interpretation plausible.
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@he atlas itch said
"Thanks Jim for that explanation. Btw like Iugum, I would also be interested to hear any tips on discovering one’s personal formula"
Hard to summarize. I suppose an entire book is warranted on it sometime, but I haven't a clue when I might write it.
Though individual paths to this will (and do) vary, to give an idea of the scope of the question in general, Temple of Thelema's entire First Order is aimed, in many respects, at this one goal. We take five degrees to get someone ripe for this question - which is a primary part of their Work in the sixth (i.e., Portal). To give the answer I'd really like to give in this, I'd first have to somehow recreate for you the experience of passing through those degrees and getting to the exact inner position where the question becomes clear. (Wish I knew how to do that without you passing through the degrees... but tickled that we know how to do it reliably for those who do.)
"If I can clarify one minor point that I, and I’m sure others, have puzzled about – namely how Crowley came to realize that Aiwaz was his HGA. The following is my interpretation and I would be interested in feedback."
This becomes evident in the ongoing communion with the Angel; but he was told many times from many sources. (There's even a place in The Vision & the Voice where he's told it outright.) I think your proposed explanation is too complicated and that it's not really a big puzzle.