Ordeals and HGA
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I have been pondering Jim’s following comments from an old thread “Satan…key to the Great Work”?:
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Try this (crude, fast try): There is something within each of us, known to us, sought by us - usually unconsciously at first, and increasingly consciously as we pursue our spiritual path - of the nature of the Sun and fire, of the substance of the reproductive energies, saturating subconsciousness and filling the atmosphere of the intellect and inherently the devouring and vivifying flame of superconsciousness. Every one of us comes to know it differently, based on our own natures, and - when our knowledge of it and openness to it and responsiveness to it hits a certain critical threshold, it unites with us in the most ecstatic fusion, an inner event that is more REAL-feeling than the entirety of the rest of our life before that time.And, once that Truth of Self, that informing lover-teacher-flame has filled us and owned us - an event that nearly always will have (among other things) caused us to journey into our own personal Hells along the way - we then have that most shining of lights to escort us into the depths of our deepest Hell where each thing found, one after another, is seen and known and named and pledged in its entirety to the service of this lover-teacher-fire-light, and to that Will, or Voice of the Angel, which is the whole momentum of our being.*
The underlined areas are my points of interest. I have been pondering the diabolically genius quality of my ordeals – how it reaches into a personal Hell, displaying it in front of the entire world, yet occurring in a precise manner that it is never more than I can bear (so far).
In the past I used to hold the view that nothing can happen to me without “permission” from the HGA and I must accept the blows and learn the lesson hidden in the experience. However my thinking on this has evolved as of recent.
- Would it be correct to say the HGA not merely “permits” ordeals to happen to the person, but is the agent of the ordeals - in this sense the HGA plays a hidden adversarial role that purifies and draws the candidate toward future union? (I am thinking of that FLO prayer "Lord of the Light and the Darkness..")
- Is the invoking of the Four Crown Princes and 8 Subprinces at Tiphareth, binding them to the will of the HGA, the culmination of the above described journey through Hell and real-life initiations?
- Would it be true to say that if ordeals come from the HGA, we can rest assured that they will never be more than we can mentally or emotionally bear? (part of me feels like I am encircled by slander, devouring forces, and that should I step outside of that circle and discover the truth I might go mad or inflict severe violence on others. What I can't figure out is the "correct" attitude - that is, stay within my circle, socially isolated, acknowledging the precise hand of the HGA? Or step outside of my circle, confront the truth and become further devoured by the experience?)
- My life has taken on a extraordinary level of intensity in the last 3 years and the momentum doesn’t seem to let up. I am wondering whether my life will ever return to “normal” or whether this heightened intensity is part and parcel of a permanent awakening?
- Any tips on how to make this "tour through Hell" easier and smoother?
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@he atlas itch said
"4. Any tips on how to make this "tour through Hell" easier and smoother?"
Banish, banish, banish, banish.
I forgot how intensely helpful even a mediocre banishing ritual is; I have neglected mine for about 2 weeks and have rapidly felt worse, and just did one now and I feel INFINITELY better than before.
Other than that, I'm basically wondering the same things myself; wondering if I can find happiness outside of the "grind of initiation" (which most of my life appears to have been) and, if not, when I'll comprehend it along this path.
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the atlas itch:
Your post reminds me of The Fool which I think provides meaningful insight into the topic at hand. He walks towards the edge of the cliff, ready to step off the edge with a smile on his face, despite the depths (of Hell) that he is about to descend into. He knows it his path to come back out on top, ascending even further having gained the experiences of that Hell.
As for making the path any easier? I wouldn't have it any other way. I didn't incarnate to not live.
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Thanks for the feedback.
I know conventional wisdom is that one should banish, but my experience has been banishings do not offer protection per se, but tend to intensify whatever is happening, for better or worse. Part of the intensity I am feeling right now is coming from the fact that I quit smoking 2 weeks ago and my body is going through nicotine withdrawal. But it also intensifies the paranoia and feel at times like I am losing my mind.
Yes, part of me would not have it any other way - I do feel like I stepped off a cliff 3 years ago and still have not reached the bottom. Sanity and keeping one’s feet grounded whilst pursuing magick is extremely important for me.
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In retrospect, I've seen the underlying wisdom of my ordeals. They seem like course corrections: the painful elimination of things that I shouldn't have had in my life in the first place.
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Walk. When you feel like you're about to lose your ****, just head out the door and around the block.
It helps.
Don't belittle it. Quitting cigarettes is a majorly emotional head trip. Before too long, you'll notice a thick layer of anxiety and depression begin to lift and dissipate like a fog.
Keep it up, man. You're winning.
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I had developed a terrible addiction to opiates at a certain point of my life. Things were great I spent 70% of my day in perfect dullness. The sh** storm started the day I decided to quit, I suffered withdrawals that nearly killed me, lost my job, lost everything I owned, and most of my "friends." I gained my mind and my soul through my ordeal that lasted well over year even after attaining soberiety. Had I stayed by the fire no harm would have come to me, but I would have never become anything of relative value or virtue.
72
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[quote="the atlas itch"
Would it be correct to say the HGA not merely “permits” ordeals to happen to the person, but is the agent of the ordeals - in this sense the HGA plays a hidden adversarial role that purifies and draws the candidate toward future union? "Doris Lessing depicts the guardian angel acting this way in her novel, "Shikasta: Re, Colonised Planet 5" (which is one of my favorite books) The guardian angell in this book really puts some people through horrible ordeals, but with a love and a wisdom to help each of them learn and grow. It really shocked me when I first read it years ago.
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Have you considered it may not be your destiny in this lifetime to achieve what it is you desire? Can you accept that? If you can, then you may be worthy.
However, if you force it, you could end up like one of those babies born severely deformed, only to die in agony.
Regarding your points: 1. - Possibly.
2. and 3. - Very thin ice to be on. To go mad or commit murder will end the game for you in this incarnation, not to mention add to your Karmic debt. So you can accept and aspire, but don't expect.This is just one man's opinion, but one must not be too attached to anything, good or bad.
P.S. Adding to what Danicia alluded to in another thread, it's the work that counts, not the outcome. (One doesn't dance to get to the other side of the floor.)
Do the work, and let destiny prevail! -
@nderabloodredsky said
"Have you considered it may not be your destiny in this lifetime to achieve what it is you desire? Can you accept that? If you can, then you may be worthy"
Yes, I have considered that possibility. Part of me feels like I’m paying off karmic debts from a previous incarnation. You would not believe all the stuff that's happened to me in the last 3 years - like a film script. For the last 2 years I do not feel like it is "my" life.
Now if the HGA is more than guardian and stabilizer of one’s universe, but also secret initiator and agent of ordeals, this subtle difference should cause serious reconsideration of everything. It means, the real question is not whether one will attain in a particular incarnation, but rather, attainment is a certainty and resistance is futile. Hence that warning from Liber Cheth:
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Wherefore I charge you that ye come unto me in the Beginning; for if ye take but one step in this Path, ye must arrive inevitably at the end thereof.*Jim has stayed out of this thread, but it would be interesting to hear his feedback to the above.
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I can accept that some bad things happen for a reason, that it happened so that people would change and grow. Yet some things that happen there just isn't anything acceptable about it. Severe child abuse, torture, genocide, among other horrible events.
One of the reasons I am suspicious of applying the law of karma to everything. What did the Native Americans do to have such bad karma they get wiped out by white settlers? Did the Jews have bad karma to be put in concentration camps? Did innocent people deserve to be burned as witches? Were all their HGAs trying to teach them something? Sorry, I don't buy that.
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@Tornado93 said
"I can accept that some bad things happen for a reason, that it happened so that people would change and grow. Yet some things that happen there just isn't anything acceptable about it. Severe child abuse, torture, genocide, among other horrible events.
One of the reasons I am suspicious of applying the law of karma to everything. What did the Native Americans do to have such bad karma they get wiped out by white settlers? Did the Jews have bad karma to be put in concentration camps? Did innocent people deserve to be burned as witches? Were all their HGAs trying to teach them something? Sorry, I don't buy that."
You brought up some interesting points there that I think some people tend to refer to as "racial karma," which I think is an entirely different beast than individual karma. As far as specific answers, I would have few insights to potentially offer you but some Biblical Historians currently are spreading the word that King David invented genocide when YHVH commanded the death of neighboring nations. Sorry I don't have the specifics, but it is written - so it just may be so.
The indigenous tribes of the the American continent? Maybe their is something to your point of view that they were innocent (I highly doubt it though, as innocence is truly a lost art that any teenager would have to confess to). The theosophical point of view about past life karma is that in fact it is used to explain the very questions you pose. We don't know these things, we don't know the path the red man took when man migrated out of Asia to the Americas, and how many deaths lay along the journey. That which some call "God" supposedly does know, and karma (being an impersonal law of cause and effect, speaking neither ill nor good but being fairly just in its own light) is I guess a "god effect" so to speak - so let's say for the sake of argument that those who believe in past lives and karmic debts relative to that also believe that karma "knows" things we may never comprehend.
Anyway - that's just my take on the subject. I still leave it for you to measure and decide.
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When I am tempted to think in terms of good or bad I am reminded that it is my perception that makes it so.
Things are things, actions are action they are not inherintly good or bad (even though we may say that our intention makes it so, but our intentions are based upon our perceptions....and we can not always trust our perceptions as being true reality).
As some one who has worked closely with Indeginious teachings, I can gander a guess that what "happened" to them may possibly have been a seed event so that the dance of humanity could continue. By that I will clarify that the spirituality that used to be european shamanism had been assimilated into the the dying god mythos, and salvationist thought. The original pilgrims wanted freedom and liberty, and I think that possibly the act of cultural appropiation is an act of the great melting pot, or of creating an eclectic blending of the best of the best, so to speak.
In other words, those action we deem "bad" may have been the only way to get the needed medicine. I tell my kids as they grimace at my remedies, that medicine is not supposed to taste good.
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@Takamba said
" You brought up some interesting points there that I think some people tend to refer to as "racial karma," which I think is an entirely different beast than individual karma. "
Each of those individual Native Americans, Jews, and accused witches (and plenty other examples) experienced their own pain and deaths individually, even though they were also part of a race or group.
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@Veronica said
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In other words, those action we deem "bad" may have been the only way to get the needed medicine. I tell my kids as they grimace at my remedies, that medicine is not supposed to taste good."That reminds me of a "Banana Flavored" antibiotic my parents made me take when I had strep as a kid. I had "Banana Flavored" puke all over the kitchen and was afraid to eat bananas for several years.
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@Veronica said
"When I am tempted to think in terms of good or bad I am reminded that it is my perception that makes it so.
Things are things, actions are action they are not inherintly good or bad (even though we may say that our intention makes it so, but our intentions are based upon our perceptions....and we can not always trust our perceptions as being true reality).
As some one who has worked closely with Indeginious teachings, I can gander a guess that what "happened" to them may possibly have been a seed event so that the dance of humanity could continue. By that I will clarify that the spirituality that used to be european shamanism had been assimilated into the the dying god mythos, and salvationist thought. The original pilgrims wanted freedom and liberty, and I think that possibly the act of cultural appropiation is an act of the great melting pot, or of creating an eclectic blending of the best of the best, so to speak.
In other words, those action we deem "bad" may have been the only way to get the needed medicine. I tell my kids as they grimace at my remedies, that medicine is not supposed to taste good."
There are numerous cases of very young children who have been severely abused by their parents - Mother, father or both. Children who have been burned, tortured, and beaten to the point of permanent damage or even killed. Was their HGA giving them an ordeal? Were they born with bad karma? My perception is what makes it wrong????
Native Americans had to be wiped out so that "the dance of humanity could continue"????
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But, even if karma/reincarnation is at play in a situation like child abuse, it doesn't mean that it is not a great wrong, and that there is not a wrongdoer to be punished. It just means that the victim doesn't always have to be a victim.
The key seems to be approaching it from the end of treating the victims as gods, rather then using it as a mental tool to assuage the guilt over the crime.
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@Tornado93 said
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Native Americans had to be wiped out so that "the dance of humanity could continue"????"Maybe. Remember, I've only commented on points of inquiry. I have no answer because this existence of a Soul / Atman or any other name is not demonstrable - nor is the opposite of its existence actually proven. All contact with it is purely personal and I feel mostly poetic in color. And since your belief in karma and soul are so interconnected in the way they are, I merely suggest some options to research to learn more about what people or peoples have concluded about these subjects in ways that you may not be familiar with.
In reference to the above question of your - maybe. That's the answer i suggest. Maybe humanity (like Buffalo) has an existence all unique ITS own - Humanity, like Buffalo and Coyote, are Gods! Humanity's Will may be to wipe all out racial separation and some ordeals are required for Wisdom to stick to flesh. Maybe all those Texans and Cowboys didn't know exactly why they were sacrificing, but to The End, they maybe were actually Sacrificing.
I dunno. I wasn't exactly there.
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As I understand it, germs were responsible for wiping out the Native American Indians. Their immunity systems had not built up the necessary resistance. European settlers exploited this fact by giving them blankets deliberately infected with smallpox.
I don’t think it’s too productive to question the “whys” of the HGA but I would rather learn the “hows” for dealing with ordeals. I subscribe to the Buddhist view that suffering arises from ignorance and therefore part of "adeptship" must entail skillfulness - learning how to deal with ordeals that arise.
For example, one thing I’ve pondered is whether, if I am attracting an unusual amount of bad luck and misfortune, the universe is telling me my task to absorb the poisons of others and transmute it into beneficial energy as in the practice of tonglen:
Or whether gratitude and compassion are useful attitudes. Or what it means to see, name and pledge a thing to the Will of the HGA - I presume that means something more than the ritual laid out in Abramelin.
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Thank you, I appreciate this.
@he atlas itch said
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I don’t think it’s too productive to question the “whys” of the HGA but I would rather learn the “hows” for dealing with ordeals. I subscribe to the Buddhist view that suffering arises from ignorance and therefore part of "adeptship" must entail skillfulness - learning how to deal with ordeals that arise.For example, one thing I’ve pondered is whether, if I am attracting an unusual amount of bad luck and misfortune, the universe is telling me my task to absorb the poisons of others and transmute it into beneficial energy as in the practice of tonglen:
Or whether gratitude and compassion are useful attitudes. Or what it means to see, name and pledge a thing to the Will of the HGA - I presume that means something more than the ritual laid out in Abramelin."