Abrahadabra
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
You're treating a G as a Qoph?
(Isn't that the wrong 'Moon'? <g>)
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
In the manuscript, the "G" has a very clear line on the top section, like ʛ
That's IPA for a "voiced uvular implosive", which sounds like a very good description of the arabic pronunciation of "qoph" (additionally, in many areas "qoph" is transiliterated as "g" or "gh").
EDIT: My rationale was also based on the previous verse, which says to "*listen *to the numbers + the words"" (emphasis added).
But, I also acknowledge that between the 'qoph' and the "v/y/gamma" at the end of the first line, it's all quite a stretch.
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
Maybe this is the thread to mention a half-baked idea I had a while back. The BRAHADABR part of ABRAHADABRA seems a lot like Hebrew barah ha-dabar, "the word creates".
(Oh, and congratulations for the second mention of the IPA in the forum. But the symbol for the velar implosive as shown in Pullum and Ladusaw's Phonetic Symbol Guide doesn't look at all like the G in the manuscript.)
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
@gmugmble said
"Maybe this is the thread to mention a half-baked idea I had a while back. The BRAHADABR part of ABRAHADABRA seems a lot like Hebrew barah ha-dabar, "the word creates""
Yes... but add the Aleph back and it puts the first word into the future tense also: Aberah h'adevara means, "I shall create as I shall speak."
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
I wonder if Pete Carroll derived his 8 Magicks from the aforementioned....
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
@AvshalomBinyamin said
"In the manuscript, the "G" has a very clear line on the top section, like ʛ
That's IPA for a "voiced uvular implosive", which sounds like a very good description of the arabic pronunciation of "qoph" (additionally, in many areas "qoph" is transiliterated as "g" or "gh").
EDIT: My rationale was also based on the previous verse, which says to "*listen *to the numbers + the words"" (emphasis added).
But, I also acknowledge that between the 'qoph' and the "v/y/gamma" at the end of the first line, it's all quite a stretch."
You acknowledge it's a stretch and I thought I would add that at no time was the articulation of this phoneme 'implosive' in any Semitic language. The theoretical historical pronunciation in Arabic was probably a voiced uvular plosive, and the g/gh transcription you refer to is sadly just a regular, boring old voiced velar plosive.
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
@Dhakhair said
"You acknowledge it's a stretch and I thought I would add that at no time was the articulation of this phoneme 'implosive' in any Semitic language. The theoretical historical pronunciation in Arabic was probably a voiced uvular plosive, and the g/gh transcription you refer to is sadly just a regular, boring old voiced velar plosive."
Agreed on both counts.
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
Another, simpler working of the top line could be (although I am sure others have worked this out before):
4638ABK24aLGMOR3Y
46, 38, and 24 each stand for "X" (as a clue to the second row).
ABK = aleph-beth-kaph = 1+2+20 = 23
alGMOR = aleph-lamed-gimel-mem-vav-resh = 1+30+3+40+6+200 = 280
3Y = 3 x 10 = 3023+280+30 = 333
Of course, as gimel, it could no longer refer to "the moon". Gamor could mean "perfected" in Hebrew or "united" in Arabic. And "Abk", "your father".
But, since it's not 418, it's not really on-topic anymore...
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
@AvshalomBinyamin said
"Another, simpler working of the top line could be (although I am sure others have worked this out before):
4638ABK24aLGMOR3Y
46, 38, and 24 each stand for "X" (as a clue to the second row).
ABK = aleph-beth-kaph = 1+2+20 = 23
alGMOR = aleph-lamed-gimel-mem-vav-resh = 1+30+3+40+6+200 = 280
3Y = 3 x 10 = 3023+280+30 = 333
Of course, as gimel, it could no longer refer to "the moon". Gamor could mean "perfected" in Hebrew or "united" in Arabic. And "Abk", "your father".
But, since it's not 418, it's not really on-topic anymore..."
Just curious to hear a perspective: do you choose vav vs. ayin for Latin "O" depending on the result? Would you mix them in a single calculation, i.e., would you ever give O the value 70 in one place and 6 in another?
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
My personal perspective would be phonetic based, and my Hebrew pronunciation is (probably overly) influenced by Arabic. So O=ayin doesn't generally compute for me. I chose vav, because it seemed like a logical semitic construction to me. But I have no intellectual issue with an argument that uses O=ayin.
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
@AvshalomBinyamin said
"My personal perspective would be phonetic based, and my Hebrew pronunciation is (probably overly) influenced by Arabic. So O=ayin doesn't generally compute for me. I chose vav, because it seemed like a logical semitic construction to me. But I have no intellectual issue with an argument that uses O=ayin."
The arguement isn't so much that A'ayin=O as that A'ayin stands in the same place in the Hebrew alphabet as O stands in descendant alphabets. Also, the oldest (primitive) form of A'ayin actually was an O shape (a circle, presumably for "eye").
Hence the frequent Qabalistic substitution. Cf. for example the Greek Omicron = 70.
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
Thanks! that makes sense.
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(The following question and it's immediate answer followed on the thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5858&start=0</a><!-- l --> - Unfortunately, this then led to a total thread-derailment, so I've cut the following to its own topic. - JAE)
Yes,I too would like to offer my sincere thanks for this succinct, informative essay. I always assumed Thelema *was the Word which encapsulated The Master Therion's Message for humanity but you end your essay with:
@Jim Eshelman said
But the true Word of this present Æon is Abrahadabra, a Word that encodes the Mystery and method of spiritual progress.
Would you have any source(s) material which elaborates on the The Word Abrahadabra as clearly as the above essay elaborates on "The Eight Magi"? Preferably, an essay, or even a paragraph or two, written by yourself, or I suppose, another more modern interpretation written by other current sources, rather than any referral's to sources written by A.C. Though I love many of AC's writings, it must be admitted, he is not the best at explaining things from a begininning, elementary level. I find your explanations on many subjects much easier to follow and comprehend.
So on that note, let me offer my sincere thanks for your work in offering this Forum to us. I have found much here that has clarified many lingering questions I have had after reading Crowley's source material.
@AvshalomBinyamin said
"Oh, I got one I came up with a while ago.
The riddle in chapter 2
4638 ABK 24 aLʛMOR 3Y
x 24 89 RPSTOVAL.4 times 6 is 24. 3 times 8 is 24. "x" is the 24th letter. 89 is the 24th prime number.
So I map the first 26 primes to the English alphabet, and I get...
RPSTOVAL 61+53+67+71+47+70+2+37= 417, and I think I've got nothing, and then I realize that I left off the "period" at the end of RPSTOVAL. If you give it a value of "1", you suddenly get 418.
(although I'm not sure I get the ABK, the aLʛMOR, or the 3Y - although "ABK" sounds like Arabic for "your father" and "aLʛMOR" Arabic for "the moon", also a surah of the Qur'an of the same name)"
Sorry for the long quote but I couldn't get myself to edit this masterpiece;)
I was taught by a very wise person that the answer to this puzzle is 424. He said when I figured it out I would know why:p
Anyway, I haven't figured it out yet:p
