illegal drugs and magick
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::high five::
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@izzy_suicide said
"this is just a quick question to anyone who'ld like to have a go on the matter.
i'm interested to hear other peoples opinions of drug use during magick ritual/meditation/spellworking. i ask this because,i've been a proud pothead since my early teen years (those scare vids they showed us only made us wanna hoot even more),and in my 20s lived a sort of...hunter thompson gone hardcore punk-lifestyle,for which i'll state i have absolutely no regrets.had it not been for these wilder days,i may never have realized christianity was a clawhammer to the soul.but my most in tune moments within my spiritual self have always been when i'm high,and my first true moment of connection with something of a higher power came during an lsd session,a night that changed my life and began my trip to where i am now,here on this site,finally able to access like minded people with far more experience than i have.
anyone with an opinion please let me know,pro or con."
93,
The proper drug in the proper setting can be a boon to the spiritual explorer. As long as you take the necessary precautions, such as proper research, you will find drugs to be a safe demonstration of higher states of consciousness.
93 93/93 -
i'm not trying to nitpick here,but,i'm finding folks are very carefully choosing thier words,and this while expanding my own thoughts on the matter,does somewhat also seem strange as i try to incorperate it within my own experiences.
now,i'm asking this because i think i'm misunderstanding the last post completely,and i'ld like to properly be able to take it on board.
"demonstration" to me would mean,"almost like the experience,but not THE experience" i.e,an altered state of conscienceness.
as a musician (though thats a loose term for a man who beats the hell out of things with sticks,i've always considered myself a "drummer" but not exactly a "musician",and have hockey playing friends back home who consider themselves "goalies" but not "hockey players"...strange as it seems lol),when i've done "demonstrations" for people in past years,it was a general overview of "how" a drumkit works in basic theory as opposed to "playing" the kit in the proper setting."almost" the real thing,but not quite the real thing.
i'ld once again like to stress that i'm not trying to become the tot drug dealer or timothy leary reincarnation lol.however....
isnt anything that takes out outside of our normal day-to-day mindset and typical way of thinking/feeling a valid "altered state"? i'm not just refering to drugs here either.
if one listens to repetative music,or music based around "drone" at high enough volume,they can find themselves suddenly,and for prolonged periods,in a trance state and more easily in tune to spiritual visions/messages...i suppose,more opened spiritually than they were before.i believe this is why brian jones recorded the "joujouka" album,and the idea that the stones great album "thier satanic majesties request" was based around.this is also a major interest of mine,and one i spend a good deal of time exploring.
some people drive at stupidly high speeds to feel "in tune" with "the road".while i myself am better off walking than driving,my own brother is one of these people,and has more times than i like to recall(as his passenger) began speaking in almost hippy-esque limerik style while pushing a car upward of 100 mph,looking more at me than the road itself yet never once missing a turn,almost as if being guided safely,while his own thoughts were nowhere close.this i admit,may not be the best example,but one i myself think is valid in its own way.
i've also known what today are called "extreme sport's atheletes" (in my day known as "those damnable kids on skateboards GET OUT OF MY POOL") who lose themselves and become "one" with the sound of the wheels,never once doubting they'll land that trick from the 25 foot drop to the unforgiving pavement below.no thought,no fear,listening to a voice they themselves may not even hear clearly,but trusting it all the same.
people seem to discourage certain methods of finding ones own divinity,or connecting to a higher star than themselves.i believe some of this is a fear of thier experiences being either laughed at or looked down on as not as valid,or worse yet,that absolutely silly idea that they'll not be taken as "adult" enough.
i'm bastardizing the quote,but i seem to recall crowley saying something like..."take strange drugs",yet so many of his pupils seem to find the idea almost replusive,and this my friends makes no sense to me,the exact reason i suppose i keep asking you all to clarify,as i openly admit i may indeed be missing youre most valid points.
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"Some drugs lead straight to demons like choronzon"
Great bumper-sticker candidate!As always, the proper modus operandi is Do What Thou Wilt.
On the subject the dangers of chemical stimulation, I can say this: after years of personal research and observation, I've come to the conclusion that it is a personal issue. Stronger specimins may take, say, LSD a thousand times and experience little ill effect (mental, physical, or spiritual), while someone with latent pyshic issues might take a miniscule dose for the first time and find themselves in the throes of a pyschotic breakdown. I've seen it happen.
Personally, I've toned down my experimentation, and opt for a natural approach when it comes to such things as ritual, meditation, etc. Like Froclown describes, mind-altering substances such as LSD often become a spiritual crutch for the aspirant. On the other hand, organic substances like marijuana and opium are relatively harmless when taken in moderation. Only individuals with latent psychic pain are apt to make such things habitual, in the same way one takes up smoking cigarettes.
Besides the illegality of these substances, there is little reason to go overboard when it comes to "illegal drugs." The fascination they pose to the less developed is merely a symptom of spiritual poverty: some take up drugs for an ego boost, seeking the "notoriety" that comes from being an addict. But neither is the opposite approach laudable: to condemn illicit substances on the basis of health or sanity is ludicrous. Any honest study will show that the prohibition of an "illicit substance" causes only a decrease in purity, an increase in cost, and more taxes for society, as it cost money to maintain prohibition, which does not actually eliminate the substance, but drives it into a black market.
Again, the only law is "Do What Thou Wilt."
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i've been thinking heavily over the last couple days about trying to enter a meditative state while focusing on a sigil of my own design as an experiment,by doing the same exercise two nights running while high on "that old devil weed"(sorry,for some reason heard me mums voice yelling at my 17 year old self for a second lol),and then,taking two days off,and again doing the same exact things only completely sober,to compare the results and effect it has on my overall being,for lack of a better phrase atm.
now,not having done it yet,i'm thinking that the results "should" by all standards be quite different,yet intertwined.has anyone else tried anything like this,and if so,did you find the results varied by huge degrees or only slightly?
i'm going to make notes best i can,as i do tend to find it hellishly hard to write things down after such rituals,a problem i need to sort so i can reference my own damned experiences lol.
and yes,there is no greater threat to a persons stash than a cat with a serious drug addiction lol,i havnt had the misfortune to have such a thing happen,but the stories i've heard from others leave me in stitches lol
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Well as an addendum to my previous post, I will confess to periodically having a red bull near the altar, usually on the floor next to it. I know it's cheating, but sometimes the magickal fatigue can set on strong, and a quick shot can help bring the cycle back around. Maybe it really does give you wings hehe.
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The reason that certain drugs are illegal is not that they are addictive, unhealthy or anything like that. It is because for example marijuana was popular with counter-establishment beatniks so in addition to lobbyist from the paper mills people who feared the Jack Kerouacs and Maynard G Krebs of the world believed that by taking away marijuana, they would remove their common rally point, stop them from organizing against traditional values.
The hippies also took to marijuana later and even worse to LSD, while Marijuana is a mild experience and something of a social rally point, LSD is a powerful experience that is so far out of the norm that people seek help in understanding what the experience means. When taken around a cult of liberals with "Far out" values and beliefs, who help explain the LSD trip in terms of those beliefs, the Trip acts as an initiation.
Since LSD was being used to initiate "good red blooded american teenagers" into an expanding cult of "lazy long haired pinko fagots" who sought to destroy clean living and ruin the economy by "Dropping out" it was necessary to do something about this. Thus the War on drugs was born, which was really a war on hippies.
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grins
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Leary was basically the Hugh Hefner of LSD.
While I think any measure to push back liberalism and it's post-modern doctrine that deny all truth and call for people to be irresponsible and seek entitlements to be good. I do not thing prohibition was or is effective for that. In fact the drug does not produce the indoctrination, peer groups do, the drugs only facilitate the process. Leary was quite good at indoctrinating people into hippie beliefs without LSD, being a rather charismatic psychologist, he was a happy go lucky type of sociopath, one harder to resist that the paranoid and anger driven Charles Manson, but two peas of a pod just the same. LSD only increased his effectiveness.
The fact that he claimed to continue Crowley's work is not totally false, he did work with drugs and their effects on psychology, sex and eastern religions. So he expanded upon some of Crowley's works like The psychology of hashish and his essay on cocaine. Which was in line with shamanism and alchemy in general, the use of mineral drugs was even mentioned and denounced in the magick of Abramelin. (See the chapter on the old witch with her flying potion, which first impressed Abraham, until he discovered it was all drug induced dreams)
But certainly Robert Anton Wilson, has done more to advance Crowley's efforts not only on the issue of drug use by all around than has Leary, Lilly, Foucault, and the likes.
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From www.tpuc.org/content/marijuana-conspiracy
"The reason hemp is illegal
(Nothing to do with its effects on the mind and body)
By Doug Yurchey - Article from The Dot Connector
They say marijuana is dangerous. pot is not harmful to the human body or mind. marijuana does not pose a threat to the general public. Marijuana is very much a danger to the oil companies, alcohol, tobacco industries and a large number of chemical corporations. Big businesses, with plenty of dollars and influence, have suppressed the truth from the people. The truth is, if marijuana was utilized for its vast array of commercial products, it would create an industrial atomic bomb! The super rich have conspired to spread misinformation about the plant that, if used properly, would ruin their companies.
Where did the word ‘marijuana’ come from? In the mid 1930s, the M-word was created to tarnish the good image and phenomenal history of the hemp plant – as you will read. The facts cited here, with references, are generally verifiable in the Encyclopedia Britannica which was printed on hemp paper for 150 years:
All schoolbooks were made from hemp or flax paper until the 1880s. (Jack Frazier. Hemp Paper Reconsidered. 1974.) It was legal to pay taxes with hemp in America from 1631 until the early 1800s. (LA Times. Aug. 12, 1981.) Refusing to grow hemp in America during the 17th and 18th centuries was against the law! You could be jailed in Virginia for refusing to grow hemp from 1763 to 1769 (G. M. Herdon. Hemp in Colonial Virginia). George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and other founding fathers grew hemp. (Washington and Jefferson Diaries. Jefferson smuggled hemp seeds from China to France then to America.) Benjamin Franklin owned one of the first paper mills in America, and it processed hemp. Also, the War of 1812 was fought over hemp. Napoleon wanted to cut off Moscow’s export to England. (Jack Herer. Emperor Wears No Clothes.)
For thousands of years, 90% of all ships’ sails and rope were made from hemp. The word ‘canvas’ is Dutch for cannabis. (Webster’s New World Dictionary.) 80% of all textiles, fabrics, clothes, linen, drapes, bed sheets, etc.,were made from hemp until the 1820s, with the introduction of the cotton gin. The first Bibles, maps, charts, Betsy Ross’s flag, the first drafts of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were made from hemp. (U.S. Government Archives.) The first crop grown in many states was hemp. 1850 was a peak year for Kentucky producing 40,000 tons.Hemp was the largest cash crop until the 20th century. (State Archives.) Oldest known records of hemp farming go back 5000 years in China, although hemp industrialization probably goes back to ancient Egypt. Rembrandt’s, Van Gogh’s, Gainsborough’s, as well as most early canvas paintings, were principally painted on hemp linen. In 1916, the U.S. Government predicted that by the 1940s all paper would come from hemp and that no more trees need to be cut down. Government studies report that 1 acre of hemp equals 4.1 acres of trees. Plans were in the works to implement such programs. (U.S. Department of Agriculture Archives.) Quality paints and varnishes were made from hemp seed oil until 1937. 58,000 tons of hemp seeds were used in America for paint products in 1935. (Sherman Williams Paint Co. testimony before the U.S.Congress against the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act.) Henry Ford’s first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the car itself was constructed from hemp! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields. The car, ‘grown from the soil,’ had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel. (Popular Mechanics, 1941.) In 1938, hemp was called ‘Billion Dollar Crop.’ It was the first time a cash crop had a business potential to exceed a billion dollars. (Popular Mechanics, Feb. 1938.) Mechanical Engineering Magazine (Feb. 1938) published an article entitled ‘The Most Profitable and Desirable Crop that Can be Grown.’ It stated that if hemp was cultivated using 20th century technology, it would be the single largest agricultural crop in the U.S. and the rest of the world.The following information comes directly from the United States Department of Agriculture’s 1942 14-minute film encouraging and instructing ‘patriotic American farmers’ to grow 350,000 acres of hemp each year for the war effort:
“…[When] Grecian temples were new, hemp was already old in the service of mankind. For thousands of years, even then, this plant had been grown for cordage and cloth in China and elsewhere in the East. For centuries prior to about 1850, all the ships that sailed the western seas were rigged with hempen rope and sails. For the sailor, no less than the hangman, hemp was indispensable… Now with Philippine and East Indian sources of hemp in the hands of the Japanese… American hemp must meet the needs of our Army and Navy as well as of our industries… The Navy’s rapidly dwindling reserves.When that is gone, American hemp will go on duty again; hemp for mooring ships; hemp for tow lines; hemp for tackle and gear; hemp for countless naval uses both on ship and shore. Just as in the days when Old Ironsides sailed the seas victorious
with her hempen shrouds and hempen sails. Hemp for victory!”Certified proof from the Library of Congress, found by the research of Jack Herer, refutes claims of other government agencies that the 1942 USDA film ‘Hemp for Victory’ did not exist.
Hemp cultivation and production do not harm the environment. The USDA Bulletin #404 concluded that hemp produces four times as much pulp with at least four to seven times less pollution.
From Popular Mechanics, February 1938:
“It has a short growing season… It can be grown in any state… The long roots penetrate and break the soil to leave it in perfect condition for the next year’s crop. The dense shock of leaves, 8 to 12 feet above the ground, chokes out weeds. …Hemp, this new crop can add immeasurably to American agriculture and industry.” In the 1930s, innovations in farm machinery would have caused an industrial revolution when applied to hemp. This single resource could have created millions of new jobs generating thousands of quality products. Hemp, if not made illegal,would have brought America out of the Great Depression.THE CONSPIRACY
William Randolph Hearst (Citizen Kane) and the Hearst Paper Manufacturing Division of Kimberly Clark owned vast acreage of timberlands. The Hearst Company supplied most paper products. Patty Hearst’s grandfather, a destroyer of nature for his own personal profit, stood to lose billions because of hemp.In 1937, DuPont patented the processes to make plastics from oil and coal. DuPont’s Annual Report urged stockholders to invest in its new petrochemical division. Synthetics such as plastics, cellophane, celluloid, methanol, nylon, rayon, Dacron, etc., could now be made from oil.Natural hemp industrialization would have ruined over 80% of DuPont’s business.
Andrew Mellon became Hoover’s Secretary of the Treasury and DuPont’s primary investor. He appointed his future nephew-in-law,Harry J.Anslinger, to head the Federal Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs.
Secret meetings were held by these financial tycoons. Hemp was declared dangerous and a threat to their billion dollar enterprises. For their dynasties to remain intact, hemp had to go. These men took an obscure Mexican slang word: ‘marijuana’ and pushed it into the consciousness of America.
MEDIA MANIPULATION
A media blitz of ‘yellow journalism’ raged in the late 1920s and 1930s. Hearst’s newspapers ran stories emphasizing the horrors of marijuana. The menace of marijuana made headlines. Readers learned that it was responsible for everything from car accidents to loose morality.Films like Reefer Madness (1936), Marijuana: Assassin of Youth (1935) and Marijuana: The Devil’s Weed (1936) were propaganda designed by these industrialists to create an enemy. Their purpose was to gain public support so that anti-marijuana laws could be passed.
Examine the following quotes from The Burning Question, aka Reefer Madness:
•a violent narcotic;
•acts of shocking violence;
•incurable insanity;
•soul-destroying effects;
•under the influence of the drug he killed his entire family with an ax;
•more vicious, more deadly even than these soul-destroying drugs (heroin, cocaine) is the menace of marijuana!
Reefer Madness did not end with the usual ‘the end.’ The film concluded with these words plastered on the screen: ‘Tell your children.’In the 1930s, people were very naive, even to the point of ignorance. The masses were like sheep waiting to be led by the few in power. They did not challenge authority. If the news was in print or on the radio, they believed it had to be true. They told their children, and their children grew up to be the parents of the babyboomers.
On April 14, 1937, the prohibitive Marijuana Tax Law, or the bill that outlawed hemp, was directly brought to the House Ways and Means Committee. This committee is the only one that can introduce a bill to the House floor without it being debated by other committees. The Chairman of the U.S. Senate, Ways and Means Committee, at the time,Robert Doughton, was a DuPont supporter. He insured that the bill would pass Congress.
Dr. James Woodward, a physician and attorney, testified too late on behalf of the American Medical Association. He told the committee that the reason the AMA had not denounced the Marijuana Tax Law sooner was that the Association had just discovered that marijuana was hemp.
Few people, at the time, realized that the deadly menace they had been reading about on Hearst’s front pages was in fact passive hemp. The AMA understood cannabis to be a medicine found in numerous healing products sold over the last hundred years.
In September of 1937, hemp became illegal. The most useful crop known became a drug and our planet has been suffering ever since.
Congress banned hemp because it was said to be the most violence-causing drug known. Harry Anslinger, head of the Drug Commission for 31 years, promoted the idea that marijuana made users act extremely violent. In the 1950s, under the Communist threat ofMcCarthyism, Anslinger then said the exact opposite: marijuana will pacify you so much that soldiers would not want to fight.
Today, our planet is in desperate trouble. Earth is suffocating as large tracts of rain forests disappear. Pollution, poisons and chemicals are killing people. These great problems could be reversed if we industrialized hemp. Natural biomass could provide all of the planet’s energy needs that are currently supplied by fossil fuels.We have consumed 80% of our oil and gas reserves.We need a renewable resource. Hemp could be the solution to soaring gas prices.
THE WONDER PLANT
Hemp has a higher quality fiber than wood fiber. Far fewer caustic chemicals are required to make paper from hemp than from trees. Hemp paper does not turn yellow and is very durable. The plant grows quickly to maturity in a season where trees take a lifetime.All plastic products should be made from hemp seed oil. Hempen plastics are biodegradable! Over time, they would break down and not harm the environment. Oil-based plastics, the ones we are very familiar with, help ruin nature. They do not break down and will do great harm in the future. The process to produce the vast array of natural (hempen) plastics will not ruin the rivers as DuPont and other petrochemical companies have done. Ecology does not fit in with the plans of the oil industry and the political machine.Hemp products are safe and natural.
Medicines should be made from hemp. We should go back to the days when the AMA supported cannabis cures.‘Medical Marijuana’ is given out legally to only a handful of people while the rest of us are forced into a system that relies on chemicals. Pot is only healthy for the human body.
World hunger could end. A large variety of food products can be generated from hemp. The seeds contain one of the highest sources of protein in nature. Also: They have two essential fatty acids that clean your body of cholesterol. These essential fatty acids are not found anywhere else in nature! Consuming pot seeds is the best thing you could do for your body. Eat uncooked hemp seeds.
Clothes should be made from hemp. Hemp clothing is extremely strong and durable over time.You could hand clothing, made from pot, down to your grandchildren. Today, there are American companies that make hemp clothing; usually 50% hemp. Hemp fabrics should be everywhere. Instead, they are almost underground. Superior hemp products are not allowed to advertise on fascist television.
Kentucky, once the top hemp producing state, made it illegal to wear hemp clothing! Can you imagine being thrown into jail for wearing quality jeans?
The world is crazy. But that does not mean you have to join the insanity. Get together. Spread the news. Tell people, and that includes your children, the truth. Use hemp products. Eliminate the word ’marijuana.’Realize the history that created it.Make it politically incorrect to say or print the M-word. Fight against the propaganda (designed to favor the agenda of the super rich) and the bullshit.Hemp must be utilized in the future.We need a clean energy source to save our planet. Industrialize hemp!
The liquor, tobacco and oil companies fund more than a million dollars a day to Partnership for a Drug-Free America and other similar agencies.We have all seen their commercials. Now, their motto is: ‘It’s more dangerous than we thought.’ Lies from the powerful corporations, that began with Hearst, are still alive and well today.
The brainwashing continues. Now, the commercials say: If you buy a joint, you contribute to murders and gang wars. The latest anti-pot commercials say: If you buy a joint… you are promoting terrorism! The new enemy (terrorism) has paved the road to brainwash you any way they see fit.
There is only one enemy: the friendly people you pay your taxes to, the war-makers and nature destroyers.With your funding, they are killing the world right in front of your eyes.
Half a million deaths each year are caused by tobacco. Half a million deaths each year are caused by alcohol. No one has ever, ever died from smoking pot!!
In the entire history of the human race, not one death can be attributed to cannabis. Our society has outlawed grass but condones the use of the killers: tobacco and alcohol.
Hemp should be declassified and placed in drug stores to relieve stress. Hardening and constriction of the arteries are bad, but hemp usage actually enlarges the arteries, which is a healthy condition. We have been so conditioned to think that smoking is harmful. That is not the case for passive pot.
Ingesting THC, hemp’s active agent, has a positive effect: relieving asthma and glaucoma. A joint tends to alleviate the nausea caused by chemotherapy. You are able to eat on hemp. This is a healthy state of being.
[one personal note. During the pregnancy of my wife, she was having some difficulty gaining weight.We were in the hospital. A nurse called us to one side and said: “Off the record, if you smoke pot… you’d get something called the munchies and you’ll gain weight.” I swear that is a true story.]
The stereotype for a pothead is similar to a drunk, bubble-brain.Yet, the truth is one’s creative abilities can be enhanced under its influence. The perception of time slightly slows and one can become more sensitive.You can more appreciate all arts, be closer to nature and generally feel more under the influence of cannabis. It is, in fact, the exact opposite state of mind and body as the drunken state. You can be more aware with pot.
The pot plant is an alien plant. There is physical evidence that cannabis is not like any other plant on this planet. One could conclude that it was brought here for the benefit of humanity. Hemp is the only plant where the males appear one way and the females appear very different, physically!
No one ever speaks of males and females in regard to the plant kingdom because plants do not show their sexes. Except for cannabis. To determine what sex a certain, normal, earthly plant is, you have to look internally, at its DNA. A male blade of grass (physically) looks exactly like a female blade of grass. The hemp plant has an intense sexuality. Growers know to kill the males before they fertilize the females. Yes, folks, the most potent pot comes from ‘horny females.’
The reason this amazing, very sophisticated, ET plant from the future is illegal has nothing to do with how it physically affects us.
Pot is illegal because billionaires want to remain billionaires!
“And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land.” – Ezekiel 34:29.
p.s. I think the word ‘drugs’ should not be used as an umbrella-word that covers all chemical agents. Drugs have come to be known as something bad. Are you aware there are legal drugstores?! Yep, in every city. Unbelievable. Each so-called drug should be considered individually. Cannabis is a medicine and not a drug. We should dare to speak the truth no matter what the law is.
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now see folks,i hate to be the voice of authority on any subject,but somehow the initial point of "oi folks,anyone else find this useful" is turning into that boring ass debate that's been played out for far too long about whos right who's wrong and how the great american eagle guides us all into the brave new nothing lol.
but since the initial topic's been strayed,which is fine,i'm gonna drag it one more step into left feild,right after a roll a joint.(insert 3 minute pause here......)
now,we all by now,as free thinking reasonably intelligent people should realize the drug war and the law's its created,are more about harnassing personal freedoms,ideals,and even ones spiritual awareness,and untill the earth itself breathes its last gasp,the right wing will always be fighting the left wing,and neither could give a fiddler's about the bird in the middle so long as they feel like big strong alpha-brains.
timothy leary,aleister crowley or bob down the street cant decide for us in the here and now folks,theyre dead,and all we have left is the words they chose to scribble down,and in my life,i've learned one valueable lesson,anyone who plots thier direction off the back of any one source is only going to find a dead end.its absolutely useless to us wheather timothy leary was the new living embodiment of crowley's vision,nor if crowley was the new jesus christ,folks,we are each as important in the grander scheme as they are.
but to call charles manson "mad in a bad way" is jumping the gun,and i wish more people would put more effort into actually finding out what he WAS guilty without a shadow of a doubt of,and what he WASNT,and forget the media swing,and that peice of toilet paper "helter skelter".actually listen to the man speak,and you may find yourselves re-thinking about a good many things.
there is no question,that this man who spent over half his life in "reform" has an understanding of the human mind,emotions,and society beyond measure,and for that matter,magick.plus,theres been many other great minds who were seen as "mad,evil,criminal,murderer" that i see a large portion of folks chasing after like crooked lawyers behind an ambulance,each seeing what they like and blind to the rest.but all this is beside the point...we arent living in the days of our spiritual forefathers,and we arent living thier lives.
i may be lynched for this statement but,steal the best of what they had to offer,put it in use,toss the rest over your shoulder. its garbage and dead weight on your journey....dont just sit there reading words like "every man and woman is a star",get off your chair and LIVE it like the god you are.
thats what leary,crowley,christ and anyone else who actually "got it" did....and we all should be doing...and to hell with the laws that bind us.
.......they cant catch what they cant SEE....and that alter in your basement is gonna cause just as much hoo-hah to the eye of a cop as that ashtray full of roaches and the red tinge to your eyes.....any of you out there police officers?...give us the OFFICAL view of "satanic ritual abuse" for 2010 please?...get a lil perspective of how mr.crowley's viewed in the eye of the lawman?...we can agree on one crucial point, drugs work for some people,and dont for others.
can we all stop tossing quotes and stats now,and try to beat our way through the forest of unknowns and collect "data".
if you've used drugs in a magickal setting,what was the scenario,and what were its effects?
did you find it helped or hindered?
in your opinion,was it successfull?we're all sitting here with the power to lay down roadwork for the future,our own and for those to follow.and its our DUTY to make sure its documented somehow to be of help to our spiritual decendants.
heres as good a place as any.....so write it down -
ahh,...i have indeed always thought i have a wonderful speaking voice over a microphone..lol...i could be an abbie hoffman if i only had better ideas LOL.
an entire nation of empowered people is the dream in many of our hearts,even if none of us can be sure what that would mean to our day to day life.sometimes a dream is better left a dream untill proper time for waking...
when the issue of drug enforment laws is on the table,in all honesty,one side of the debate stands to lose a lot more from a slight change,and it aint us.i can attest to having lived through one shake up with marijuana reform in canada some years ago,when the possession/trafficing limits were updated (long story short,most police stopped giving REAL trouble if you were carrying less than ten grams,15 you might still get away if you speak nice,any more than that youve got to smile pretty when the judge looks your way and hope that sleazybugger of a lawyer doesnt have somewhere better to place his half coked out mind)....this small change in the system confused both the police AND the "stoners" alike,as lets be honest,most of them dont really take in the news very well between bong blasts.
for us LEGAL age and not completely burnt users,this while relieving the stress of "gettin busted maaaan" for picking up a bit more when cash wasnt short,or small time dealers helping out some friends from seeing the insides of a prison term,also inflated the whole market with UNDERAGE kids,some of whom didnt respond to the drug well,some who instantly got caught for acting like idiots,and more seriously warned to keep out of the "big dogs" way.
it made as many problems as it had solved.well known "spots" where pot users gathered would suddenly get ambushed by police desperately hoping to catch someone with an unopened ounce,god help the poor bugger once they get hold of him.countless wasted police hours wasted chasing some guy with nowhere near enough on him to have made that paranoia fueled 6 block chase worth the hassle,real crimes happening that there was nobody to cover,and a loss in quality that made us older types kind of wish things hadnt changed at all.....it has evened out slowly since,but my point here is,when even the smallest changes ripple,how can we be expected to handle waves?...
i dont know personally,but i'm willing to help fill sandbags...i brung my own shovel lol -
"Leary was basically the Hugh Hefner of LSD."
You don't think that title would be better fitted to Kesey?
From what I see here, I doubt there more than one or two people who've taken decent LSD, much less studied its effects from a psychological perspective. A few words:
Leary's problem had to do with "Talk not overmuch." The proponents of LSD and other such drastic, life-transforming substances were so excited over their research, and so convinced that an "instant Samadhi" in a cute purple pill was the solution of the world's problems, they blew it out of proportion. The Pranksters and Kesey did away with any vestige of scientific research altogether, offending established society left and right. This shock treatment only led to demonization and political heat for the "hippies." 'Tis better to delegate LSD-search to the intelellectual elite--those prepared physically, mentally, and spiritually for the experience. Notice that trained psychologists had a much better time of it than, say, the average teenie-bopper.
This isn't to say that this society the LSD-volutionaries sought to reform wasn't in need of transformation, but the 60's counter-culture went about it in an entirely wrong way. The "tune in/drop out" strategy was a failure to begin with, as it provided no alternative to existing social systems--it's like starting a popular movement to eliminate obesity by getting rid of food altogether. The only successful faction of 60's counter-culture was the Grateful Dead. By creating an alternative culture, instead of doing away with traditional ideas altogether, the band effected an environment that was both self-sustaining and self-governing. The Dead are an amazing, and too-neglected anthropological study.
"Hippies!--proof that anarchy doesn't work!"
Yet the discovery of LSD and mescaline, and particularly Harvard tests did a great deal for culture in general, spawning some of the greatest artistic acheivments of the century. A good read for those who would like to become educated on the subject (and by the look of most posts here, there's a good deal of unrefined ignorance to dispel,) Aldous Huxley's book "The Doors of Perception" offers an excellent introduction to psychedelic research. Using a mescaline trip as the foundation for his story, he propounds excellent theories on the subject of psychedelic enlightenment, relating the experience to various forms of religious enlightenment.
Some furthur (
) studies: Leary: The Psychedelic Experience, Tom Wolfe: The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, Hoffman: LSD, My Problem Child. Ram Dass: Be Here Now. These are the basic titles one should assimilate before touching even a stick of reefer. Hunter S. Thompson's work in general is excellent, but be careful kids, he's a bad, bad influence. 
( I like his early letters especially.)On a more personal note:
After several years of intensive research, I've come to the same conclusion as Kesey: one must move beyond LSD. LSD offers nothing that cannot be attained by healthy eating, meditation, and ritual. Yet, at the same time, properly prepared subjects can attain intellectual freedom and inspiration in a very short period of time. I no longer take psychedelics, as it eventually becomes superflous. Why should I pay someone for paper soaked in refined fungus when I can experience the very same thing by setting certain portions of my brain into action?
((By the way, I'm digging the mating slugs avatar, Alrah.
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The final results of LSD can be attained by ritual this is true.
But I don't know of any ritual than produced trails so thick you can't tell where the actual object is from it's smeared after images. Or any that cause one to believe that colored lights each project different emotions to the point of taking on personalities and even voicing conversations. Rituals don't tend to cause intense anomalous motion illusions, or the extremes of ego instability, not the synthesia, or the pouring out of the imagination into the external perception beyond conscious control.
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I've gotten those extreme effects from ritual. I'll bet others have too.
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"But I don't know of any ritual than produced trails so thick you can't tell where the actual object is from it's smeared after images. Or any that cause one to believe that colored lights each project different emotions to the point of taking on personalities and even voicing conversations. Rituals don't tend to cause intense anomalous motion illusions, or the extremes of ego instability, not the synthesia, or the pouring out of the imagination into the external perception beyond conscious control."
See, those would be the effects of impure LSD, which is often cut with synthetic or "analog" psychedelic compounds in order to increase profit. Pure acid is characterized by extreme lucidity. It's actually quite hard to find pure anything, due to the lack of proper chemists and prohibition. This is one of the reasons I stopped taking drugs altogether--how can one tell that what one is putting in one's body is actually LSD, or mescaline, or whatever? I went a long time (perhaps 50 trips) before I took acid that was remotely pure--and the results were staggering. It was like that book you read that puts to rout your entire life's work, and you realize that someone has stated everything better than you, and then some.
" A while ago I read a book called spirit molecule which was about DMT, but the results didn't seem groundbreaking."
Yeah, that book was a load of mystic, quasi-scientific hooey. I much prefer Terence McKenna, who I forgot to add to my essential reading list. His entire work should be assimilated and studied by those who are serious about the subject. He approaches psychedelics from an anthropological perspective, and gives some interesting theories on the part psilocybin mushrooms played in the evolution of humanity. Unfortunately, a great deal of his lecture recordings were destroyed during the Big Sur fires some years ago. An acquaintance of mine has a number of his lectures on tape, however, which he was able to salvage. I hope to transfer the audio and post it one of these days.
"I feel that if you let it, the experience can show you a beneficial way of thinking that is transformative upon it's application, but you have to figure out how to implement it without chemical assistance. Maybe this is what you mean by becoming superfluous... Actually maintaining that state of mind can be done a variety of ways, and once you start working at it, the drug experience changes. You may even come to find that it had little to do with the drug itself. For people who don't use drugs, they have different catalysts. For those on this path though, they can't deny or forget just how they caught their first glimpse of something."
Good post, Aster; we've come to a lot of the same conclusions. It was the same for me: psychedelics unleashed a flood of psychic debris. While it was quite overwhelming at times, it drove me to investigate both myself and the world around me with different eyes. This inner objectivity hasn't left me even after my discontinuance of the substances themselves. It's the same with meditation. After a certain state, one transcendes the form and discovers the substance of the act, and can do away with what is essentially only a tool.
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lsd is an iffy drug to get hold of,because of how many bucketturners are tossing lord knows what together and selling it off with catchy names.this is the major reason i no longer trip (havnt done "acid" in at least 7 years,and i'm calling it acid for the reason it wasnt very good).if i found a source of decent quality purple mic,or even trustworthy blotter,i might be tempted,in a safe place with good people and away from my children,yes,i might indeed be tempted.
the "better trips" i've had on purple mic were beautifully introspective,at a time i desperately needed that depth and force to open my eyes to new concepts.i can only say that i'm more than grateful for those experiences,they were the beginning of the path this poor fool is still treading.
with "shrooms",i had total access,as they grew naturally everwhere in my hometown and the surrounding woods.we'ld fill garbage bags with them,sometimes having so many between our little crew that we'ld have to store them in my mums celler,waiting for most to dry,eating some fresh off the ground.never once did i have a bad experience during any of those days,only "sweetness and light" as we used to be fond of saying. it took my longer than most to figure out that this "trip" had a higher purpose when done correctly,but i always left with a feeling of connection to the world that i never got anywhere else.
everyone here seems to have first hand experience with all these things,and it isnt my place to try and swing opinion,though hearing your opinions helps me gain a bigger picture of where i want to go.
pot has always been a dear old chum of mine,but as everyone knows,a man can get lazy when he spends too much time with old friends lol.at this moment,i find it very usefull in helping my concentration,preparation,and focus. for some reason when i'm high my tinnitus (i cant spell it...makes my ears buzz like hell though....) doesnt seem to be as upfront,making it easier for me to relax.
i do hope that with time patience and practise i can move further away from the "beginners tool set" i'm using now.
but i dont want to completely remove the possibilty of bringing them back out down the line. -
I've kept pretty quiet on this subject as whilst i love me a smoke of weed, thats pretty much the only place i can talk from... i used this as a reason to stay quiet but after talking to Izzy realises that i can waffle all i want on the "benefits" of weed.
I didnt "do" drugs with my peers, i felt very comfortable saying no, and enjoying thier mood as opposed to "sharing" thier trip. None of my friends had a problem with it, even my bf at the time who got high. I didnt see the point i guess. Everybody was suddenly talking about things i thought about daily LOL and being quite "hyper" in those days people would tell me i was fun to be high around lol, even sober. I didnt seek out friendships with "druggies" but weed was definately available to my generation at early ages like 12 and 13 (i was totally seperate from this world lol) my mother told me constantly growing up that my dad left because of "drugs" (which turned out to be complete bollox)
After a few years of being around it, i felt like i wanted to try it and form my own opinions on it... well after the giggles the munchies and the relaxation i realised it wasnt that bad, but couldnt figure how anybody opperated on it. Here and there (months and months apart) i'd be in a circle one was going around and i'd partake and spend the rest of the night quite quiet, heavy limbed and just...content... I didnt crave or want it at other times (with the exception of some pretty bad flair ups at home)
I started smoking "every day" (ie when able to) after getting in with Izzy - i knew long before that he smoked weed every day and it just felt lovely sharing one with him, and i found it to be very different from experiences in the past.. i did have energy, i could function, and best of all i could play like a nutter with my daughter lol, something i'd seemed to have forgotton how to do.
Canada's Native Indians have quite a connection with weed and nature, they'll take some of thier portion and throw it into the woods "back to nature" as some form of tribute to nature..quite nice
Weed just seems to make you more intune with your random thoughts... it cuts out the "chatter" and you've just got one clear loud voice to think with. I've been quite surpised many a time connecting seemingly seperate thoughts... I've found that these will be the times Izzy will let me in on his head chatter or theories he's been working by for many years... and i can take them all in enthusiasticly (whilst still seeing and pointing out possible errors or slides) and "get it" with little effort.
I find that when conversing with deities (Generally voodoo) to sit down and smoke a joint, head clear of everything but what you are talking to... well i find i can concerntrate so much better... and anybody who could see me in there talking to "myself" with answers readilly popped into my mind too...
There is a certain relaxing quality to weed, and after the initial fun of it wears thin, it leaves open a lot of doors and possibilitys. I'm not saying that by smoking weed you dont need to meditate... but it certainly helps if life is too hectic to mediate... just give yourself a moment ...
We didnt start using weed with magick (offically) until our "~lovetoot~" came into the making... midway just stop and straddle and smoke one together,not moving...its beautiful... i beleive Izzy has traced our "lovetoot" back into a practise ill have to ask him to put it here...he told me only a few days ago that in that senario the weed changes somehow...i'd like to find out more on that now i come to think on it.
I know that weed isnt for everyone, and for the most part that is a good thing, but i do beleive that it helps ME... (and thats without the amount of medical issues this clears up for me)
(there is debate as to if i was previously "tripped" on acid at 16, at the time i thought it was "supernatural" especially as i was in my "pagan" days lmao....i knew even in the throws of it that i was processing whatever the hell was happening with my new found interest... I wont go into it here unless its asked because its very strange, and i cant explain it not even with all these years past...lol but izzy says i described an acid trip... dont think i'll ever know for sure but i would like to try acid and shrooms grins ... i may have had that salvia but at the end of the day i just had a shit friend i thought was looking out for me, but instead ...well yah nuff sed.)
However i did splurt "wisdom" i didnt know yet... tis hard to put a finger on.Weed though... i think is a great tool to bring ones thoughts up to speed
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I forgot to mention that in "practise" of Magick i dont really use it unless i'm already smoking it, however... the images i can draw whilst being a little high are far superior to those i draw sober.. i've tried my hand at letting "something" guide my hand before, and maybe its just me, but it doesnt seem to work without it... maybe due to my level of relaxation, i havnt put much thought into it, as i started with amazing results then just couldnt seem to get it back
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Technically the Magickal and alchemical use of drugs is as a "doping agent"
When you purify a metal from an ore, sometimes you dope the alloy with a chemical impurity, and that impurity will chemically react with related impurity in the ore or alloy, thus you can when the impure agent is removed it removes the original impurity along with it.
Thus is analogous to the use of drugs in magick, Julius Evola wrote a few pieces on the Alchemical use of drugs. This technique is what attracted Crowley and Bennett to the use of drugs in the first place, which Crowley writes in the psychology of Hashish that after trying agents such as cocaine and ether, he found the applicable agent he was looking for in Hashish.
So the effects of the drug are not what is traditionally taken as the purpose of them, rather the drug flushes out these impurities that arise in the mind as visions, feelings, distortions, or spirits of impure nature, and when the drug is eliminated it takes with it some of the impurities that it flushed out through it's duration of effect on the mind/soul.