Crowleys interest in Left Hand Tantra
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And don't confuse Crowleys ideas on LHP in Magick Without Tears with the Left Hand Path of people in Orders like the Typhonian Order, The Dragon Rouge and the Cultus Sabbati (even though many adepts in that particular group don't use the word LHP some actually do).
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@atlantis said
"And don't confuse Crowleys ideas on LHP in Magick Without Tears with the Left Hand Path of people in Orders like the Typhonian Order, The Dragon Rouge and the Cultus Sabbati (even though many adepts in that particular group don't use the word LHP some actually do)."
Atlantis, could you elaborate a bit upon that difference?
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I find that often when people are attempting to force a choice between 2, they forget that 2 is the heart of 4.
And 4 is a matter for Kings to discuss both without and within themselves, under the leadership of 5 and 14 and 131.
Even Hogwarts has four schools equilibrating themselves against one another.
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The definition of the Left Hand Path that Crowley used was his variant of the misunderstanding of the Left Hand Path by Blavatsky. Crowley ties the word to his idea of the "Black Brother": guys and gals that for some reason do not want to lose the ego.
So just from that it is very clear that neither the western nor eastern Left Hand Path traditions can be compared to what Crowley talks about as the Left Hand Path since a core thing within these traditions are learning how to get rid of the ego.
But then again, there are some people who do not have much to do with esoterism that have used the word in a bogus fashion, for instance LaVey and the people that came after him..
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It's hard to have any good discussion of LHP prior to adepthood anyways...
Because, on the one hand, you can describe LHP as being magick not leading to K&C. But on the other hand, if you reach K&C, didn't everything lead to it? Like the Portuguese saying, "God writes straight lines with crooked letters"
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(thanks for the reminder that clear use of terminology is key in a discussion like this)
I was referring to one definition of Black Magick as being anything that doesn't lead to K&CHGA. In that sense, a lot of the new-age, self help magick (like "the Promise", for example) is Black Magick.
I was thinking of this Crowley quote from MWT
"Mark well this first distinction: the "Black Magician" or Sorcerer is hardly even a distant cousin of the "Black Brother." The difference between a sneak-thief and a Hitler is not too bad an analogy.
The Sorcerer may be—indeed he usually is—a thwarted disappointed man whose aims are perfectly natural. Often enough, his real trouble is ignorance; and by the time he has become fairly hot stuff as a Black Magician, he has learnt that he is getting nowhere, and finds himself, despite himself, on the True Path of the Wise."
And I believe by "Black Magician" and "sorceror", Crowley is talking about someone using magick for personal, material-plane gain, instead of growth.
Working with "dark", "negative", or socially unaccepted forces doesn't in and of itself qualify as "black magick" from this point of view.
At the same time, it's hard to predict where a person will end up just based on where they start.
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I just had a thought because of the last post that if you thought Crowley said magick for 'personal gain' or material gain is Black then Crowley is a black brother too.
He admitted and even kept and shared a magical record countless times of doing a magical working for nothing more than gold, and money.
He was broke so he would do workings just to get money.
I guess by his standards then he was a black brother.
what do you guys think?
that is only if you put the words in his mouth that material gain is evil. -
Christibrany-you make a great point. Exactly. At the end of Crowleys life, he was attempting to sell the highest secret of the OTO for money flat out. I find it really funny when this talk begins there is always this strange silence on the board amongst the real "Crowley believers" I never really can figure that out. So it makes little sense to me that a person who had so much occult knowledge would be trying to barter his secrets for cash, especially at the end of his life. Does that make him a black brother? Seems like it to me.
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Again... look back a few posts and into Magick Without Tears (stuff about brothers and schools and magicians not being the same things when we talk about them).
Was Crowley a black magician? In other words, did he use magick for lower and earthly ends? Hell yes, and so do I from time to time.
Does this qualify one as a Black Brother? Absolutely not. Otherwise, everyone who boils water to make tea is a black brother.
To put it plainly: Brothers of the Ancient White Brotherhood seek to increase the light of the world. Brothers of the Black Brotherhood seek to increase their existence as individuals into Eternity.
Get it?
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My point is basically that what Crowley talks about as the LHP (The Black Brothers) have nothing to do with the LHP since breaking ego is central and key to the LHP.
Crowleys word LHP is derived from the misconceptions of Blavatsky. Crowley, being unknowledgeable about Tantra simply continued in this vain.
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As far as I know, Crowley's idea of a Black Brother was a magician who refused to cross the Abyss. Black magic is magic for material ends. In other words, from Crowley's perspective, a lot of the 'LHP' groups like the ones mentioned above are really right-hand, just working with unorthodox forces...
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Also, Crowley's definition of "Black Magick" is more of a continuum than an either/or scenario.
As in, as magick moves away from a direct line to K&C (up the middle pillar) it tends to become black magick.
It's impossible not to be a black magician to some degree at some time or other, prior to K&C. Further, accepting a temporary imbalance, with the goal of getting to a middle ground eventually is much less "black", than simply using magick for gain without any consideration to personal evolution.
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"I am curious as to what anyone else may see in LHP techniques such as those of Kenneth Grant and such, which is something I have asked before."
All I can say is (from personal experience): you reap what you sow.
This is especially true when speaking of the subject of "Sex Magick"--a term to simple to describe the complexities involved in its execution. Like the scientist in his laboratory, ignorant of the laws of chemistry: he goes to synthesize a chicken; he winds up with an ape.
Hence the preliminaries involved before any such practices are taught--and there are those who know and control these practices with the utmost of holiness. Yet, by the time one reaches such a level of mastery, one regards the infant with sly curiosity--and sometimes sends them to a minor doom, a lesson. ("He may make harsh the ordeals.")
But enough of this. For the Neophyte: let he who is unmarried simply jerk off.
And as far as Crowley is concerned. I pause Well, he fvcked up.
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Don't mind me, I just thought I would toss a few more stones into the pool and see if I could muddy it up even more.
@veritas_in_nox said
" Black magic is magic for material ends. "
It is so easy to generalize about such things, and almost all such generalizations are dangerous. Maybe, just maybe, sufficient material resources are necessary for you to do your true will. In which case, doing Magick for material ends, strictly speaking, is not black Magick, is it...
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Left is not black. Some folks may want to equate the two, but in the end it is only a personal bias they are expressing.
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Tantra is not necessarily left or black, though there are instances when it might be either. A Black example, which is rare, would be the Kapalikas clan who used human skulls as drinking vessels, which is not necessarily black, but considering they sometimes took the skulls of folks who were still using them at the time, well...
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People talk about tantra as if it was a solitary thing, when it is actually many things. The correct term, if you do not know enough about Eastern systems to qualify which tantra you are talking about, is tantras, the plural, because there are many tantras. According to Kenneth Grant, the Book of the Law can be viewed as a kind of Western tantra. As far as the Eastern varieties are concerned, only a few deal with sexuality of any kind, and even fewer would be correctly classified as left hand, let alone, black.
The tantras are in fact a political/spiritual movement which, as a group, asserts that there is no monopoly on spiritual teaching or practice. In other words, enlightenment is possible for everyone, no mater if you are not a Brhaman, and even if you are an untouchable, you too can achieve Moksha. A comparable phenomenon can be seen in the proliferation of Evnagelical sects in the US, mostly based on Acts: "your sons and daughters shall prophesy." Meaning, anyone can be a vessel of divine revelation as long as the Holy Ghost has anointed you as such. There is something admirably iconoclastic about such movements, East and West.
Back to the topic: Another way of conceiving the notion of left might be the concept of backward. Because a primary impulse of a trantra is to assert that there is more than one way to skin an ego, there is also the tendency to look at misbehaving as a positive virtue. This is the meaning of left hand; it is a practice which, when viewed by pedestrian morals and aesthetics seem abhorrent, or just plain wrong.
Crowley is a fairly easy target when discussing his humanity. He is a lot more difficult to fault when one is talking about his status as a magician and a mystic. Case in point, he tried everything, pretty much without prejudice—Islamic, Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, and Hindi mystical and magical practices, not to mention his experimentation with drugs and sex. For this reason I would find it hard to believe that he would not have been interested in, and did not experiment with left hand techniques. Didn't he post an advertisement at some point for artists models with physical deformities? This would be a classic left hand stratagem if it were true, re-educating the aesthetics sense to find joy and pleasure in what otherwise would have been repugnant.
maybe I'm just bored
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