LXV
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@Frater ALLAShALLA said
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So I was setting here thinking about LXV because I have to memorize a chapter. To be honest I hate this Liber. It doesn't appeal to the mystic in me. This is the only one I don't like and its the only one I haven't read 100+ times."if you do not feel inspired inclination toward it now, you can choose a chapter by its correlated element, or just randomly open the book and pick the one your finger (or eye) landed upon, or choose one that contains some interesting metaphor for you (or some particular symbol, or a picture)....
either way, choose one, study it and give your best to memorize it! it's more than worth the effort
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93 93/93
"This, of course, depends on the font size, paper size, etc. The number of pages varies each time it is published."
I am so glad I am a member of this site. You have been keeping me in check:)
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if you do not feel inspired inclination toward it now, you can choose a chapter by its correlated element, or just randomly open the book and pick the one your finger (or eye) landed upon, or choose one that contains some interesting metaphor for you (or some particular symbol, or a picture)....either way, choose one, study it and give your best to memorize it! it's more than worth the effort"
Well this wasnt a total waste because I got something out of it. Thank you Danica. That's good advice:)
One question: how did they do it without computers back in the day? Computers let you have the whole Thelemic community at your fingertips (well you know what I mean
).There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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93
I'm sorry to hear that you hate Liber Lxv; I found the opposite effect really, I didn't read Liber Lxv at all until I was approaching the time when I signed the Oath, then I chose my chapter, and memorised it in about 4 months.
I absolutely love Liber Lxv; during the time I was memorising it I had syncronisities coming out of my ears, any time a question popped into my head, the answer would be in the next verse I memorised, the book has had a profound effect on how I view the world, and has a beautiful way of putting things in perspective, I definitely chose the right chapter.
I wonder how much of a persons distaste is based on the scale of the task of memorising all 65 verses? no mean task to be sure, but one that in my honest opinion is well worth it, the imagery, although confusing at first, has a way of unfolding before you in a way that I was delighted and surprised by.
93 93/93
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93,
"One question: how did they do it without computers back in the day? Computers let you have the whole Thelemic community at your fingertips"
Well, we did have books.
Lack of computers meant there were fewer distractions, and concentration came more easily. Add up all the time you spend in a month just browsing, posting idle thoughts, or random musings that don't seem relevant a week later. I probably lose half an entire day of my life this way, in the course of each 30 days.
Books are more rigorously revised before publication than things that appear online. We form relationships to specific books - like Liber Cordis Cincti Serpente, for instance, which is one of my own favorites. Do you have Crowley's own commentary to the book? That blew open the doors for me on a lot of deeper Thelemic ideas.
93 93/93,
Edward -
93 93/93
"I wonder how much of a persons distaste is based on the scale of the task of memorizing all 65 verses? no mean task to be sure, but one that in my honest opinion is well worth it, the imagery, although confusing at first, has a way of unfolding before you in a way that I was delighted and surprised by."
I know I am supposed to like LXV because it relates to the K&C of the HGA. The reason I don't like it now is the same reason I didn't like it 15-20 years ago . It doesn't feel like any of the other Holy Books. I can say this with confidence because I have been reading and memorizing for a long, long time. My copy of the Holy Books is about to fall apart.
Anyway, this Liber seems to bog down and I cant seem to relate to the symbols (images) in the text. All of the other Holy Books spoke directly to my spirit the first time I read them.And that isn't very much to memorize;)
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
edited:
"Do you have Crowley's own commentary to the book? That blew open the doors for me on a lot of deeper Thelemic ideas.
"No I don't have them . I should get them huh?
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Frater ALLAShALLA said
"Every chapter but the last one is 5 pages long. The last one is 8 pages. so it would look like this: 5 5 5 5 8.My first thoughts are that the four 5's represent the pentagram on the four planes of existence and the 8 represents the qabbalah that forms (and maybe binds together) the 4 pentagrams sort of like Spirit in relation to the 4 elements.
Can I get some thoughts on this please?
Thank You:)"This, of course, depends on the font size, paper size, etc. The number of pages varies each time it is published."
Which is a nice segue into a question I'd been meaning to post. The text of my very nice edition of the Holy Books differs in significant ways from other printed versions. This is disconcerting since we are not supposed to alter even a letter of a Class A document. How can I tell what's right?
Unlike CCXX, the other HB's are not printed along with a photocopy of the original manuscript. Wouldn't it be nice if they were? Who has the manuscripts?
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93 93/93
"Unlike CCXX, the other HB's are not printed along with a photocopy of the original manuscript. Wouldn't it be nice if they were? Who has the manuscripts?"
Honestly I cant read his writing
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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@Edward Mason said
"Well, we did have books. "
And however did they do it without books, way back in that day?
There is a story from ancient Egypt that when Thoth invented writing and presented it as a gift to Pharaoh, Pharaoh rejected it as a bad idea, saying that if people came to rely on reading and writing they would lose their memories. -
@Frater ALLAShALLA said
"Honestly I can[']t read his writing"
European handwriting is more angular than American.That's how it is (or was) taught. (You should see Polish handwriting -- just looks like a string of zigzags to me.) You can get used to reading it with a little effort.
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93 93/93
"And however did they do it without books, way back in that day?
There is a story from ancient Egypt that when Thoth invented writing and presented it as a gift to Pharaoh, Pharaoh rejected it as a bad idea, saying that if people came to rely on reading and writing they would lose their memories."I like that
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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ALLAShALLA 93,
In response to your difficulty identifying with Liber LXV, and henceforth with memorizing it... In Magick Without Tears, in the last sentence of letter 48, Morals of Liber AL, Crowley says of the Book of the Law: "The value to you of the Book varies directly with the degree of your own initiation." I too had a hard time identifying with Liber LXV at first, and though I'm certainly not suggesting you're "not initiated enough" or anything like that, I've found the above quoted sentence seems to apply to all the Holy Books for me personally. In other words, I gain a deeper insight into them depending on where I'm at when I'm reading them.
So just as a friendly suggestion, would it make sense to suggest that you might be looking at the book too cerebrally? From your first message on this thread, it sounds like you were approaching the Liber analytically, which makes sense from the standpoint of memorization. But in terms of identifying with it and getting more out of it on a mysticism/symbolical level, it might be worth taking a totally alternate direction of approach -- e.g. "turning off" the intellect and just letting the text wash over you, allowing the subconscious to react to it.
I don't know if this particular advice is helpful or relevant to you, but thought I'd suggest it -- I usually find that if you consistently have the same difficulty arising, it's best to try a totally different approach. All the best to you!
93 93/93
Fra. AL H-ShMATh
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93 93/93
"In response to your difficulty identifying with Liber LXV, and henceforth with memorizing it... In Magick Without Tears, in the last sentence of letter 48, Morals of Liber AL, Crowley says of the Book of the Law: "The value to you of the Book varies directly with the degree of your own initiation." I too had a hard time identifying with Liber LXV at first, and though I'm certainly not suggesting you're "not initiated enough" or anything like that, I've found the above quoted sentence seems to apply to all the Holy Books for me personally. In other words, I gain a deeper insight into them depending on where I'm at when I'm reading them."
I believe your comments about Initiation are right....at least I hope so
"So just as a friendly suggestion, would it make sense to suggest that you might be looking at the book too cerebrally? From your first message on this thread, it sounds like you were approaching the Liber analytically, which makes sense from the standpoint of memorization. But in terms of identifying with it and getting more out of it on a mysticism/symbolical level, it might be worth taking a totally alternate direction of approach -- e.g. "turning off" the intellect and just letting the text wash over you, allowing the subconscious to react to it.
"I do analyze the holy books from a Qabbalistic viewpoint. Usually I read them with an open mind. When I read something like that, I can see it happening in my imagination. Also the text flows effortlessly through the book till the end.
Reading Liber LXV is like wading shoulder deep through thick weeds. I can only get so far before I give up. I dont escape into the book. Nothin like that. So I would have to assume that you are right about the level of Initiation.
By the way I am only 0=0
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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@Frater ALLAShALLA said
"I know I am supposed to like LXV because it relates to the K&C of the HGA. "
And (I am quite willing to be bold on this), that is the only thing that should be preoccupying you until you attain it.
"The reason I don't like it now is the same reason I didn't like it 15-20 years ago . It doesn't feel like any of the other Holy Books."
I agree! It is, in fact, far more beautiful than any of the others - the very embodiment of Beauty.
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@gmugmble said
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@Edward Mason said
"Well, we did have books. "And however did they do it without books, way back in that day?"
Before books, learning was passed on by memorization. There were people in the community whose job it was to memorize things verbatim without distortion and recite them to others, from generation to generation.
Before that stage, there was negligible learning passed from generation to generation at all.
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93 93/93
Well I have to deal with it some way. I guess I will just be hit if I don't catch on eventually.
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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"And (I am quite willing to be bold on this), that is the only thing that should be preoccupying you until you attain it."
"I agree! It is, in fact, far more beautiful than any of the others - the very embodiment of Beauty."
I feel exactly that way, its funny that I never gave the K&C of the HGA much thought until I began working seriously, but now its all that seems to matter, (apart from paying the bills of course, although you can correct me on that)
I found that Liber Lxv opened up for me in a way that none of the other Holy books have except Liber Dcccxiii.
In truth I never gave the Holy books much thought at all until around two years ago, I had read and re-read almost all of Crowley's other works, but for some reason I avoided the specifically Thelemic texts for years, I guess I just wasn't ready for meat that strong.
Its also interesting to note that I discovered Sufism not long ago, coincidence? -
93 93/93
"I feel exactly that way, its funny that I never gave the K&C of the HGA much thought until I began working seriously, but now its all that seems to matter, (apart from paying the bills of course, although you can correct me on that)
I found that Liber Lxv opened up for me in a way that none of the other Holy books have except Liber Dcccxiii.
"For me it was Liber AL ch 3 from the beginning. Now I know that Ra Hoor Khuit is absolutely not my HGA. However as an Archetype I have always, even when I didn't know my azz from a hole in the ground, thought of Ra Hoor Khuit as my HGA.Again, so no one thinks I am delusional, I absolutely do know that Ra Hoor Khuit is not my HGA, But I practiced bhakti yoga for 3 years with Ra Hopor Khuit as my Diety.
Actually I haven't looked at it in a while. I guess I will read a chapter out loud tonight and see if my feelings have changed.
Keep posting any thoughts you have. It helps me because it gives me options. Also it is nice to hear others stories who have been there and done that:)
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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@Solitarius said
"In truth I never gave the Holy books much thought at all until around two years ago, I had read and re-read almost all of Crowley's other works, but for some reason I avoided the specifically Thelemic texts for years, I guess I just wasn't ready for meat that strong.
Its also interesting to note that I discovered Sufism not long ago, coincidence?
"I've also noticed that certain books, subjects, topics, etc. seem to get sidelined in an uncanny way for me until I'm "ready" for them... something very uncanny in it, beyond just "not getting it" initially. Inclinations at a given time seem to be intertwined as well.
@Solitarius said
"(apart from paying the bills of course, although you can correct me on that)"
"It is my will to make money/that I might pay the bills/that I might continue to thrive/that i might accomplish the Great Work (i.e. K&C)" Makes sense to me, at least!
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@Al Ha-Shema said
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@Solitarius said
"In truth I never gave the Holy books much thought at all until around two years ago, I had read and re-read almost all of Crowley's other works, but for some reason I avoided the specifically Thelemic texts for years, I guess I just wasn't ready for meat that strong.
Its also interesting to note that I discovered Sufism not long ago, coincidence?
"I've also noticed that certain books, subjects, topics, etc. seem to get sidelined in an uncanny way for me until I'm "ready" for them... something very uncanny in it, beyond just "not getting it" initially. Inclinations at a given time seem to be intertwined as well.
@Solitarius said
"(apart from paying the bills of course, although you can correct me on that)"
"It is my will to make money/that I might pay the bills/that I might continue to thrive/that i might accomplish the Great Work (i.e. K&C)" Makes sense to me, at least!
"I've noticed that too, interesting huh? I seem to have had something of a satori moment recently and all sorts of things that I ignored before are jumping out at me in unexpected ways, I've even taken to reading the Bible! which proves that you really can find God in a pile of dung
Lol, I like that a lot, I might start doing "Will" more often, and at every opportunity.
But I tell you; you have not lived until you have recited the Holy books over a dirty toilet
( I currently clean at the College where I study to help pay the bills) It certainly give you a sense of humility, but I figured, while I'm touching the shells I may as well get down and dirty with the grossest of gross matter, mayhap I'll find a jewel hidden yet.
Can you guess my chapter of Liber Lxv!? -
@Solitarius said
" But I tell you; you have not lived until you have recited the Holy books over a dirty toilet
( I currently clean at the College where I study to help pay the bills) It certainly give you a sense of humility, but I figured, while I'm touching the shells I may as well get down and dirty with the grossest of gross matter, mayhap I'll find a jewel hidden yet.
Can you guess my chapter of Liber Lxv!?" I'll have to try that. I'm guessing yours is chapter 1, "Subdue thy fear and disgust ..."