LXV
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Frater ALLAShALLA said
"Every chapter but the last one is 5 pages long. The last one is 8 pages. so it would look like this: 5 5 5 5 8.My first thoughts are that the four 5's represent the pentagram on the four planes of existence and the 8 represents the qabbalah that forms (and maybe binds together) the 4 pentagrams sort of like Spirit in relation to the 4 elements.
Can I get some thoughts on this please?
Thank You:)"This, of course, depends on the font size, paper size, etc. The number of pages varies each time it is published."
Which is a nice segue into a question I'd been meaning to post. The text of my very nice edition of the Holy Books differs in significant ways from other printed versions. This is disconcerting since we are not supposed to alter even a letter of a Class A document. How can I tell what's right?
Unlike CCXX, the other HB's are not printed along with a photocopy of the original manuscript. Wouldn't it be nice if they were? Who has the manuscripts?
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93 93/93
"Unlike CCXX, the other HB's are not printed along with a photocopy of the original manuscript. Wouldn't it be nice if they were? Who has the manuscripts?"
Honestly I cant read his writing
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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@Edward Mason said
"Well, we did have books. "
And however did they do it without books, way back in that day?
There is a story from ancient Egypt that when Thoth invented writing and presented it as a gift to Pharaoh, Pharaoh rejected it as a bad idea, saying that if people came to rely on reading and writing they would lose their memories. -
@Frater ALLAShALLA said
"Honestly I can[']t read his writing"
European handwriting is more angular than American.That's how it is (or was) taught. (You should see Polish handwriting -- just looks like a string of zigzags to me.) You can get used to reading it with a little effort.
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93 93/93
"And however did they do it without books, way back in that day?
There is a story from ancient Egypt that when Thoth invented writing and presented it as a gift to Pharaoh, Pharaoh rejected it as a bad idea, saying that if people came to rely on reading and writing they would lose their memories."I like that
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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ALLAShALLA 93,
In response to your difficulty identifying with Liber LXV, and henceforth with memorizing it... In Magick Without Tears, in the last sentence of letter 48, Morals of Liber AL, Crowley says of the Book of the Law: "The value to you of the Book varies directly with the degree of your own initiation." I too had a hard time identifying with Liber LXV at first, and though I'm certainly not suggesting you're "not initiated enough" or anything like that, I've found the above quoted sentence seems to apply to all the Holy Books for me personally. In other words, I gain a deeper insight into them depending on where I'm at when I'm reading them.
So just as a friendly suggestion, would it make sense to suggest that you might be looking at the book too cerebrally? From your first message on this thread, it sounds like you were approaching the Liber analytically, which makes sense from the standpoint of memorization. But in terms of identifying with it and getting more out of it on a mysticism/symbolical level, it might be worth taking a totally alternate direction of approach -- e.g. "turning off" the intellect and just letting the text wash over you, allowing the subconscious to react to it.
I don't know if this particular advice is helpful or relevant to you, but thought I'd suggest it -- I usually find that if you consistently have the same difficulty arising, it's best to try a totally different approach. All the best to you!
93 93/93
Fra. AL H-ShMATh
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93 93/93
"In response to your difficulty identifying with Liber LXV, and henceforth with memorizing it... In Magick Without Tears, in the last sentence of letter 48, Morals of Liber AL, Crowley says of the Book of the Law: "The value to you of the Book varies directly with the degree of your own initiation." I too had a hard time identifying with Liber LXV at first, and though I'm certainly not suggesting you're "not initiated enough" or anything like that, I've found the above quoted sentence seems to apply to all the Holy Books for me personally. In other words, I gain a deeper insight into them depending on where I'm at when I'm reading them."
I believe your comments about Initiation are right....at least I hope so
"So just as a friendly suggestion, would it make sense to suggest that you might be looking at the book too cerebrally? From your first message on this thread, it sounds like you were approaching the Liber analytically, which makes sense from the standpoint of memorization. But in terms of identifying with it and getting more out of it on a mysticism/symbolical level, it might be worth taking a totally alternate direction of approach -- e.g. "turning off" the intellect and just letting the text wash over you, allowing the subconscious to react to it.
"I do analyze the holy books from a Qabbalistic viewpoint. Usually I read them with an open mind. When I read something like that, I can see it happening in my imagination. Also the text flows effortlessly through the book till the end.
Reading Liber LXV is like wading shoulder deep through thick weeds. I can only get so far before I give up. I dont escape into the book. Nothin like that. So I would have to assume that you are right about the level of Initiation.
By the way I am only 0=0
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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@Frater ALLAShALLA said
"I know I am supposed to like LXV because it relates to the K&C of the HGA. "
And (I am quite willing to be bold on this), that is the only thing that should be preoccupying you until you attain it.
"The reason I don't like it now is the same reason I didn't like it 15-20 years ago . It doesn't feel like any of the other Holy Books."
I agree! It is, in fact, far more beautiful than any of the others - the very embodiment of Beauty.
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@gmugmble said
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@Edward Mason said
"Well, we did have books. "And however did they do it without books, way back in that day?"
Before books, learning was passed on by memorization. There were people in the community whose job it was to memorize things verbatim without distortion and recite them to others, from generation to generation.
Before that stage, there was negligible learning passed from generation to generation at all.
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93 93/93
Well I have to deal with it some way. I guess I will just be hit if I don't catch on eventually.
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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"And (I am quite willing to be bold on this), that is the only thing that should be preoccupying you until you attain it."
"I agree! It is, in fact, far more beautiful than any of the others - the very embodiment of Beauty."
I feel exactly that way, its funny that I never gave the K&C of the HGA much thought until I began working seriously, but now its all that seems to matter, (apart from paying the bills of course, although you can correct me on that)
I found that Liber Lxv opened up for me in a way that none of the other Holy books have except Liber Dcccxiii.
In truth I never gave the Holy books much thought at all until around two years ago, I had read and re-read almost all of Crowley's other works, but for some reason I avoided the specifically Thelemic texts for years, I guess I just wasn't ready for meat that strong.
Its also interesting to note that I discovered Sufism not long ago, coincidence? -
93 93/93
"I feel exactly that way, its funny that I never gave the K&C of the HGA much thought until I began working seriously, but now its all that seems to matter, (apart from paying the bills of course, although you can correct me on that)
I found that Liber Lxv opened up for me in a way that none of the other Holy books have except Liber Dcccxiii.
"For me it was Liber AL ch 3 from the beginning. Now I know that Ra Hoor Khuit is absolutely not my HGA. However as an Archetype I have always, even when I didn't know my azz from a hole in the ground, thought of Ra Hoor Khuit as my HGA.Again, so no one thinks I am delusional, I absolutely do know that Ra Hoor Khuit is not my HGA, But I practiced bhakti yoga for 3 years with Ra Hopor Khuit as my Diety.
Actually I haven't looked at it in a while. I guess I will read a chapter out loud tonight and see if my feelings have changed.
Keep posting any thoughts you have. It helps me because it gives me options. Also it is nice to hear others stories who have been there and done that:)
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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@Solitarius said
"In truth I never gave the Holy books much thought at all until around two years ago, I had read and re-read almost all of Crowley's other works, but for some reason I avoided the specifically Thelemic texts for years, I guess I just wasn't ready for meat that strong.
Its also interesting to note that I discovered Sufism not long ago, coincidence?
"I've also noticed that certain books, subjects, topics, etc. seem to get sidelined in an uncanny way for me until I'm "ready" for them... something very uncanny in it, beyond just "not getting it" initially. Inclinations at a given time seem to be intertwined as well.
@Solitarius said
"(apart from paying the bills of course, although you can correct me on that)"
"It is my will to make money/that I might pay the bills/that I might continue to thrive/that i might accomplish the Great Work (i.e. K&C)" Makes sense to me, at least!
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@Al Ha-Shema said
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@Solitarius said
"In truth I never gave the Holy books much thought at all until around two years ago, I had read and re-read almost all of Crowley's other works, but for some reason I avoided the specifically Thelemic texts for years, I guess I just wasn't ready for meat that strong.
Its also interesting to note that I discovered Sufism not long ago, coincidence?
"I've also noticed that certain books, subjects, topics, etc. seem to get sidelined in an uncanny way for me until I'm "ready" for them... something very uncanny in it, beyond just "not getting it" initially. Inclinations at a given time seem to be intertwined as well.
@Solitarius said
"(apart from paying the bills of course, although you can correct me on that)"
"It is my will to make money/that I might pay the bills/that I might continue to thrive/that i might accomplish the Great Work (i.e. K&C)" Makes sense to me, at least!
"I've noticed that too, interesting huh? I seem to have had something of a satori moment recently and all sorts of things that I ignored before are jumping out at me in unexpected ways, I've even taken to reading the Bible! which proves that you really can find God in a pile of dung
Lol, I like that a lot, I might start doing "Will" more often, and at every opportunity.
But I tell you; you have not lived until you have recited the Holy books over a dirty toilet
( I currently clean at the College where I study to help pay the bills) It certainly give you a sense of humility, but I figured, while I'm touching the shells I may as well get down and dirty with the grossest of gross matter, mayhap I'll find a jewel hidden yet.
Can you guess my chapter of Liber Lxv!? -
@Solitarius said
" But I tell you; you have not lived until you have recited the Holy books over a dirty toilet
( I currently clean at the College where I study to help pay the bills) It certainly give you a sense of humility, but I figured, while I'm touching the shells I may as well get down and dirty with the grossest of gross matter, mayhap I'll find a jewel hidden yet.
Can you guess my chapter of Liber Lxv!?" I'll have to try that. I'm guessing yours is chapter 1, "Subdue thy fear and disgust ..." -
93 93/93
"n truth I never gave the Holy books much thought at all until around two years ago, I had read and re-read almost all of Crowley's other works, but for some reason I avoided the specifically Thelemic texts for years, I guess I just wasn't ready for meat that strong.
Its also interesting to note that I discovered Sufism not long ago, coincidence?"I find this really odd. All I had at first was the HB. I didn't read or mess with anything else for about 5 years.
Anyway, I am over it. I am going to approach it like reading poetry.I think that might work. I am going to read some tonight and see what happens.If I have to I will just force my way through it. Either way its getting read
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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@gmugmble said
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@Solitarius said
" But I tell you; you have not lived until you have recited the Holy books over a dirty toilet ( I currently clean at the College where I study to help pay the bills) It certainly give you a sense of humility, but I figured, while I'm touching the shells I may as well get down and dirty with the grossest of gross matter, mayhap I'll find a jewel hidden yet.
Can you guess my chapter of Liber Lxv!?" I'll have to try that. I'm guessing yours is chapter 1, "Subdue thy fear and disgust ...""Good guess,
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Try reading it aloud. It makes a huge difference. (Especially since you have to recite it at the end of your labors.)
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Try reading it aloud. It makes a huge difference. (Especially since you have to recite it at the end of your labors.)"
K:)
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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93 93/93
Well, last night I read the first chapter out loud and to my surprise it rolled off my tounge
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.