New- Any help appreciated
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@Frater Aster Lux said
"The method of Science, the aim of Religion... that sums it up pretty good.
"Just noticed that at the end of your post
One of the best lines out there. Unfortunately, anyone who doesn't know thing-one about what Magick is wouldn't have heard the line, and I'm guessing would likely see it as being contradictory to their preconceived ideas about "what magic is." -
"Maybe the real story is kind of boring to them. I see a lot of crappy bands relying on a negative image of Crowley to sell their corny records or horror-show antics. It's nice that more and more people are turned on to Crowley, but it doesn't seem to really represent thelema in the best way."
I don't know how it is possible to be bored with Thelema. I myself think this attraction to the Goetia that a lot seem to have is related to all these cultural images that surround us. If you think about it,you might think this was meant to be that way. Only a few are chosen.
"9. This Knowledge is not for all men; few indeed are called, but of these few many are chosen.
--Liber Porta Lucis"
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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@Frater Aster Lux said
"For those interested in only the light and happy side of things, they eventually get forced outside the box in a different way. So really, I guess balance is key. Magick"
Totally! Ever and as always. I was also thinking of II:53: "But I will hide thee in a mask of sorrow: they that see thee shall fear thou art fallen: but I lift thee up."
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"For those interested in only the light and happy side of things, they eventually get forced outside the box in a different way. So really, I guess balance is key..."
Yea. I agree. Also if you are working the Goetia it was just a coincidence that I brought this up.
"# I reveal unto you a great mystery. Ye stand between the abyss of height and the abyss of depth.
- In either awaits you a Companion; and that Companion is Yourself.
- Ye can have no other Companion.
- Many have arisen, being wise. They have said «Seek out the glittering Image in the place ever golden, and unite yourselves with It.»
- Many have arisen, being foolish. They have said, «Stoop down unto the darkly splendid world, and be wedded to that Blind Creature of the Slime.»
- I who am beyond Wisdom and Folly, arise and say unto you: achieve both weddings! Unite yourselves with both!
- Beware, beware, I say, lest ye seek after the one and lose the other!
- My adepts stand upright; their head above the heavens, their feet below the hells.
- But since one is naturally attracted to the Angel, another to the Demon, let the first strengthen the lower link, the last attach more firmly to the higher.
--Liber Tzaddi
"
This passage warns against working the Goetia (as well as others) until you attain the K&C of your HGA. But thats obvious to anyone I think. But a warning is just a warning. Nothing more.
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
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"I'm curious as to how deep this magick goes. I'm not actively looking for proof (I'm neither antagonistic nor patronizing) but I was also wondering if there was anything minuscule that might convince me other wise."
Get yourself a notebook. Do those rituals and record your practices. This is key. Browse through your journal every now and then to track your progress. You'll find your proof.
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Hey well thank you all for your well thought out answers. To answer the question about atheism, I'm skeptical about everything. It's not so much that I think the rituals would work, its more that I'm hoping they will. And by proof, I mean a token or sign that these work. I don't mean it in any perverse manner and I apologize if it sounds that way. Even if he wasn't a rock star evil villain type, Crowley is interesting to me and my interest is becoming a spiritual person, I don't quite know if the prerequisite for that is a believe in Deity. In any case I want to give this a shot.
So start off with Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram? Can anyone tell me what exactly it's supposed to do. I think I understand the gist of it --clearing the area for magickal work-- but I'm guessing that is just a glib generalization. Perhaps a deeper something I'm supposed to find?
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@Narcissus said
"Hey well thank you all for your well thought out answers. To answer the question about atheism, I'm skeptical about everything. It's not so much that I think the rituals would work, its more that I'm hoping they will. And by proof, I mean a token or sign that these work. I don't mean it in any perverse manner and I apologize if it sounds that way. Even if he wasn't a rock star evil villain type, Crowley is interesting to me and my interest is becoming a spiritual person, I don't quite know if the prerequisite for that is a believe in Deity. In any case I want to give this a shot.
So start off with Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram? Can anyone tell me what exactly it's supposed to do. I think I understand the gist of it --clearing the area for magical work-- but I'm guessing that is just a glib generalization. Perhaps a deeper something I'm supposed to find?"
Crowley makes a declaration of atheism in john st john, where he likens magical phenomena to the formation of hoar frost and glacier tables.
Also in the quote:
w]hether you are a Christian or a Buddhist, a Theist or (as I am myself, thank God!) an Atheist, the attainment of this one state [of mystical realization] is as open to you as is nightmare, or madness, or intoxication.
And yes, the banishing ritual of the pentegram has a purifying function, but also invokes angelic guardians. It's a great way to practice visualization and vibration of names as well.
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@Narcissus said
"Even if he wasn't a rock star evil villain type, Crowley is interesting to me and my interest is becoming a spiritual person, I don't quite know if the prerequisite for that is a believe in Deity. In any case I want to give this a shot."
Depends how you define "Deity." If you mean the Judeo-Christian conception of a God, then that's probably not necessary... although everything overlaps with everything else in various spots.
@Narcissus said
"So start off with Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram? Can anyone tell me what exactly it's supposed to do. I think I understand the gist of it --clearing the area for magical work-- but I'm guessing that is just a glib generalization. Perhaps a deeper something I'm supposed to find?"
This is a really common question. Working with the ritual daily for a long period of time will go far toward answering it, but in general - it seals you inside a protected space and keeps astral crap from bombarding you. It is kind of like sealing the vessel inside which you are doing a science experiment - it's kind of necessary for everything else that could happen.
It's also an incredibly beautiful ritual once one begins to really grasp what's going on in it. (Not that I have a deep understanding of it, but I'm seeing a lot more now than I ever did, and it continues to grow in beauty by the day.)
93, 93/93.
p.s. Crowley said somewhere that, ultimately, the Theist and the Atheist have no real argument, and there is little to differentiate them. They are just different perspectives on the same thing that's going on. Try to figure out what's going on and worry about labeling afterward.
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@Narcissus said
"So start off with Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram? Can anyone tell me what exactly it's supposed to do. I think I understand the gist of it --clearing the area for magical work-- but I'm guessing that is just a glib generalization. Perhaps a deeper something I'm supposed to find?"
This is a really good post on the LBRP that I found by doing some searching on this site. heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4872&start=0&hilit=Temple+of+Thelema
This site is a great resource for a lot of different information. Being a sceptic can be of great value - as most scientific minded individuals are - and you need to apply this scepticism heavily. Especially to your self, your thoughts, your motivations, etc!
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I believe magick to be, above all, self-actualization through the knowledge of your True self. I think this is pretty much in line with what Crowley meant when he spoke "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." As your true self unfolds and the ego is softened through the practice of ritual and spiritual exercise, the proof of magick will be self-evident.