LBRP Questions

MMe

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@MMe said
"* Raphael's wand should be a simple one or the Hermetic Caduceus?"

There is no standard for the archangels (just a few hints). The archangel Raphael never has any sort of wand when I see him (though sometimes he bears a rose).
"

I'm a little confused
I had understood:
Raphael - East - Air - Wand - Yellow/Mauve
Gabriel - West - Water - Chalice - Blue/Orange
Michael - South - Fire - Sword - Red/Green
Uriel - North - Earth - Pentacle - Black or Citrine/Olive/Russet/Black
If I'm wrong, please correct me.

@Jim Eshelman said

"
This suggests to me that, just maybe, you're not used to being solidly grounded in your body. If that's the case, then you might want to try exercised that ground you there. Several things are possible, for existence: the kind of relaxation exercise that has you individually feeling, tensing, and relaxing each muscle set from your feet up to your head; intentional efforts to see, taste, hear, touch different sensations, feeling items of different textures, etc.; or other things.
"

Do you mean the work to become "firmly rooted in Malkuth"?
Became aware of the body removing the filter of the thoughts/emotions, right?

@Jim Eshelman said

"
You seem to be lacking (so far) the snese that these visualized things are real things.Your experience probably would change if you regarded them as being as real as the furniture in your room.
"

This is, in the beginning, one of the most, for me, difficult task!
But I training myself daily (with the help of the forum) to overcome it!

@Jim Eshelman said

"
One thing that may help is to stop, after the pentagrams are drawn, and face each direction in turn, visualizing the archangels being there: face east and visualize Raphael, face south and visualize Michael, etc. Get used to them being there. Know that Gabriel is behind you as much as you know that a door or a chair or a painting (or whatever) is behind you in the same room. Then, in the appropriate part of the ritual, draw back to mind that Gabriel is behind you, just as if you knew that a friend were in the room standing behind you.
"

Thanks for the hints!

I forgot to ask how many times a day? During sunrise, noon, sunset and midnight?

Jim Eshelman

@MMe said

"
@Jim Eshelman said
"There is no standard for the archangels (just a few hints). The archangel Raphael never has any sort of wand when I see him (though sometimes he bears a rose).
"

I'm a little confused
I had understood:
Raphael - East - Air - Wand - Yellow/Mauve
Gabriel - West - Water - Chalice - Blue/Orange
Michael - South - Fire - Sword - Red/Green
Uriel - North - Earth - Pentacle - Black or Citrine/Olive/Russet/Black
If I'm wrong, please correct me."

I'm not sure where you got this list, but it seems to emerge from a subset of the British occult community that keeps insisting that the Wand and Sword have element swaps. Rightly, the Wand is the symbol of Fire and the Sword of Air.

"
@Jim Eshelman said
"This suggests to me that, just maybe, you're not used to being solidly grounded in your body. If that's the case, then you might want to try exercised that ground you there. Several things are possible, for existence: the kind of relaxation exercise that has you individually feeling, tensing, and relaxing each muscle set from your feet up to your head; intentional efforts to see, taste, hear, touch different sensations, feeling items of different textures, etc.; or other things."

Do you mean the work to become "firmly rooted in Malkuth"?
Became aware of the body removing the filter of the thoughts/emotions, right?"

See, there you took a practical, physical recommendation and turned it into an intellectual idea. That's an example of what I was addressing. At the moment, who cares if it's called "firmly rooted in Malkuth"? Whatever it's called, did you understand the recommendation to get solidly into your body?

I don't know what you mean by "removing the filter of the thoughts/emotions," so I don't know if that's what I meant. However, if it sounds to you like what I wrote, then go for it!

"I forgot to ask how many times a day? During sunrise, noon, sunset and midnight?"

A common recommendation is: twice, once at the beginning of the day and once at the end.

MMe

@Dar said

"
It was these 'hints' I was interested in.
"

Ok I try!

@MMe said

"* The best moment of the day?"

After wake up and Before go to sleep.

"* How much should it last?"

10/20minutes.

"* Eyes open or closed?"

Eyes open, because I can concentrate better.

"* The whole rite is to be done mentally too? If Yes, after how long time?"

After become able in the physic manner.

"* Vibrating Malkuth I move my hand to the groin area with the index finger downward. Am I wrong?"

As long as I can follow the shaft of light with the hand, and the index indicates the direction.

"* Is it to visualize the circle connecting the pentagrams?"

Yes.

"* During the invocations of the Archangels I need to visualize also the pentagrams and the circle?"

Yes.

"* Finished to visualize one Archangel(or pentagram) and go to the next, I need to visualize also the previous?"

Yes.

"* Raphael's wand should be a simple one or the Hermetic Caduceus?"

Simple one.

"* The hexagram is to be visualize in gold, but what kind of material? Metal? Fire? Light?"

Metal.

MMe

@Jim Eshelman said

"
I'm not sure where you got this list, but it seems to emerge from a subset of the British occult community that keeps insisting that the Wand and Sword have element swaps. Rightly, the Wand is the symbol of Fire and the Sword of Air.
"

Ok!
Raphael - East - Air - Sword- Yellow/Mauve
Gabriel - West - Water - Chalice - Blue/Orange
Michael - South - Fire - Wand- Red/Green
Uriel - North - Earth - Pentacle - Black or Citrine/Olive/Russet/Black

@Jim Eshelman said

"
See, there you took a practical, physical recommendation and turned it into an intellectual idea. That's an example of what I was addressing. At the moment, who cares if it's called "firmly rooted in Malkuth"? Whatever it's called, did you understand the recommendation to get solidly into your body?
"

I think so: Jump the mind! Action, don't think!
Like Zen.

@Jim Eshelman said

"
I don't know what you mean by "removing the filter of the thoughts/emotions," so I don't know if that's what I meant. However, if it sounds to you like what I wrote, then go for it!
"

I mean disconnect the mind from the action: learning "simply" to see, hear, taste, etc... without the mind bring back memories, concepts, conjectures, etc...

@MMe said

"I forgot to ask how many times a day? During sunrise, noon, sunset and midnight?

@Jim Eshelman said

"A common recommendation is: twice, once at the beginning of the day and once at the end."
"

Thanks

MMe

@Dar said

"MME - I didn't learn anything new, but 'spot on' as my understanding of these things go.
"

I know, I'm a newbie.

@Dar said

"
Always look first to your Sovereign self. Ask for advice from others, but at the end of the day you must always 'Do what Thou Wilt', and formulate your own understanding along the way.
"

Step by step, I begin to understand a little...

@Dar said

"
I think you've understood this. Good Play Sir! "

Thanks.

MMe

Some corrections and updates:
Raphael - Tiphereth - East - Air - Dagger - Yellow/Mauve
Gabriel - Yesod - West - Water - Chalice - Blue/Orange
Michael - Hod - South - Fire - Wand - Red/Green
Uriel - Netzach - North - Earth - Pentacle - Black or Citrine/Olive/Russet/Black

Why Uriel is to visualize with the color attribuitions of Malkuth?
Can I visualize the Archangels with the swords omitting the weapons?

MMe

@Dar said

"
The weapons have elemental significance. Wand - Fire. Sword - Air. Cup - Water. Pentacle - Earth. To omit the other weapons and only include the swords would be to work the circle only with the air element. The idea is to balance you, and the balance of the elemental weapons around the circle represents that balance and has a powerful effect upon the subconscious, so I would suggest you visualise the Archangels with their elemental weapons.
"

Ok, probably in the beginning I will do so, but I refer to the commentary of Crowley which says that the terminal "AL" represents the Sword and the Balance.

@Dar said

"The angels are assigned to the elements and weapons, not the other way around. "

Interesting!

@Dar said

"
Uriel - Malkuth (the most physical reality) is where the 3 elements produce the forth - Earth. knocks on the table and grins. You might find it interesting to study the mythology of Uriel. btw."

Thanks for the hints.

Jim Eshelman

The -AL comment was generic. It was primarily a way of explicating the method of building magical images, not an insistence that every angel and archangel have a sword.

MMe

@Jim Eshelman said

"The -AL comment was generic. It was primarily a way of explicating the method of building magical images, not an insistence that every angel and archangel have a sword."

Thanks for the clarification.

Jim Eshelman

@Meletiros said

"
"ii. Touching the breast say Aiwass" (The reference to Aiwass links you with Thelema and places this God in the sphere of Tiphareth, which refers to the Sun. Aiwass stands as a symbol of your own Holy Guardian Angel, Who has led you thus to Thelema ..."

Is it correct then that one is vibrating two names on the column, Aiwass and Malkuth?"

Attah, Aiwass, and Malkuth.

"What is the relation between this name Aiwass, and the entity who dictated Liber AL vel Legis?"

Same one.

"How should this Egyptian name be pronounced/vibrated?"

Eye-wuz (or, per letter: Ah-ee-wah-ahz).

MMe

@MMe said

"
Uriel - Netzach - North - Earth - **Pentacle **- Black or Citrine/Olive/Russet/Black
"

I'm in doubt: the pentacle is to visualize as a circle with an Hexagram.
The Hexagram represent the Macrocosm, why use it for symbolize earth?

Jim Eshelman

The hexagram represents the power of Spirit consecrating the elemental powers - like Tiphereth above the four lower sephiroth (which are used to symbolize the four elements).

It's like sunlight shining on the earth.

MMe

Thanks Mr. Eshelman! Much clear now.
How can I include the visualization of the Hebrew letters during the LBRP?
Are to be visualize during the whole rite, or at particular moments such as the Invocation of the Archangels?
Colors: elemental or flashing or elemental + flashing?

[OFF TOPIC]
I saw your table "A Particular Distribution of the 22 Hebrew letters by color"
The color are the King Color Scale, right?
Has to be taken as a reference?
Because if is the King Color Scale why Aleph and Beth is using the same color, Yellow, instead of using bright pale yellow for Aleph. Color nuances are not so important?
Why is it organized so graphically?
[/OFF TOPIC]

Thanks.

Jim Eshelman

@MMe said

"How can I include the visualization of the Hebrew letters during the LBRP?"

Just see them in flame in front of you. (I'm not sure what the question is, exactly. I suspect I'm missing something here.)

"Are to be visualize during the whole rite, or at particular moments such as the Invocation of the Archangels?"

What Hebrew letters are you talking about? The only way this is usually recommended is as a part of the process of vibrating Divine Names - that one see the Divine Name spelled in front of one, inhale it and be filled with it, as a setup to its vibration.

"Colors: elemental or flashing or elemental + flashing?"

Of Hebrew letters? Neither. Just simple flame, not particularized to anything.

"I saw your table "A Particular Distribution of the 22 Hebrew letters by color" The color are the King Color Scale, right?"

Yes.

"Has to be taken as a reference?"

"Because if is the King Color Scale why Aleph and Beth is using the same color, Yellow, instead of using bright pale yellow for Aleph. Color nuances are not so important?"

The main point is: Where on the 12-step chromatic scale does it fall. - BTW, Aleph isn't so much a paler color - it's exactly the same color! - but on the Tree it is being more saturated with the light of Kether. (Same for Gimel in comparison to Mem.)

"Why is it organized so graphically?"

I had a reason. (People who have undergone a particular stage or process will understand the reason.)

MMe

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@MMe said
"How can I include the visualization of the Hebrew letters during the LBRP?"

Just see them in flame in front of you. (I'm not sure what the question is, exactly. I suspect I'm missing something here.)

"Are to be visualize during the whole rite, or at particular moments such as the Invocation of the Archangels?"

What Hebrew letters are you talking about? The only way this is usually recommended is as a part of the process of vibrating Divine Names - that one see the Divine Name spelled in front of one, inhale it and be filled with it, as a setup to its vibration.

"Colors: elemental or flashing or elemental + flashing?"

Of Hebrew letters? Neither. Just simple flame, not particularized to anything.
"

Because I would include the correlation **letter **= musical note = color:
Chanting the syllable and in the meanwhile visualize the letter with the proper color, I'm wrong?
example:
**chanting ** AH - DOH - NAH - YEE
letter Alef - Daleth - Nun - Yod
color yellow - green - blue/green - yellow/green

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@MMe said
"I saw your table "A Particular Distribution of the 22 Hebrew letters by color" The color are the King Color Scale, right?"

Yes.

"Has to be taken as a reference?"

"

It was refer as a color reference(yellow/bright pale yellow), nuances and so on...

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@MMe said
"Because if is the King Color Scale why Aleph and Beth is using the same color, Yellow, instead of using bright pale yellow for Aleph. Color nuances are not so important?"

The main point is: Where on the 12-step chromatic scale does it fall. - BTW, Aleph isn't so much a paler color - it's exactly the same color! - but on the Tree it is being more saturated with the light of Kether. (Same for Gimel in comparison to Mem.)"

I understand.

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@MMe said
"Why is it organized so graphically?"

I had a reason. (People who have undergone a particular stage or process will understand the reason.)"

Ok.

Jim Eshelman

@MMe said

"Because I would include the correlation **letter **= musical note = color:
Chanting the syllable and in the meanwhile visualize the letter with the proper color, I'm wrong?"

You can do that if it helps you visualize. Generally the colors are used that way, but, yes, it's a useful technique while learning the notes.

MMe

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@MMe said
"Because I would include the correlation **letter **= musical note = color:
Chanting the syllable and in the meanwhile visualize the letter with the proper color, I'm wrong?"

You can do that if it helps you visualize. Generally the colors are used that way, but, yes, it's a useful technique while learning the notes."

Ok, but I need to visualize the elemental or, as in your table, the flashing color or elemental + flashing?
The letters Simple or Flaming?
In the same word, finished to chanting/visualize the letter and go to the next, I need to visualize also the previous one?
And then after chanting the last letter the whole word?

The last one, for now :
The weapons of the archangels are to be visualize upward, downward or doesn't matter?

@Jim Eshelman said

"You can do that if it helps you visualize."

I see that is not a common practice doing so, at least for LBRP, right?

Jim Eshelman

@MMe said

"Ok, but I need to visualize the elemental or, as in your table, the flashing color or elemental + flashing?"

In the generic lesser ritual? No. - You see the elemental colors of the quarters in the formulations of the archangels, or course. But, in the generic lesser ritual (that is, not particularized to any element), the pentagrams are all drawn in the same pale blue astral light, and there is no elemental differentiation of the Divine Names.

Is that what you meant? Or am I missing your meaning?

This might be easier if you mentioned which of the many printed instructions for the Pentagram Ritual you are following.

"In the same word, finished to chanting/visualize the letter and go to the next, I need to visualize also the previous one?"

If you are only using the Hebrew letters to help you learn the notes, then, no, it was just a guide and not really related to the ritual - just a "practice sheet" for you.

If you are using the letters as usualy taught, you would have inhaled them and they would be gone.

"The weapons of the archangels are to be visualize upward, downward or doesn't matter?"

Magical weapons are (essentially) never held point down.

"
@Jim Eshelman said
"You can do that if it helps you visualize."

I see that is not a common practice doing so, at least for LBRP, right?"

Correct.

MMe

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@MMe said
"Ok, but I need to visualize the elemental or, as in your table, the flashing color or elemental + flashing?"

In the generic lesser ritual? No. - You see the elemental colors of the quarters in the formulations of the archangels, or course. But, in the generic lesser ritual (that is, not particularized to any element), the pentagrams are all drawn in the same pale blue astral light, and there is no elemental differentiation of the Divine Names.

Is that what you meant? Or am I missing your meaning?"

Yes, is what I mean. I risked to get a good mistake...

@Jim Eshelman said

"This might be easier if you mentioned which of the many printed instructions for the Pentagram Ritual you are following. "

I'm starting with "Techniques Of High Magic"(Skinner/King) then put aside for your "776 1/2", Black Pearl, In the Continum and Regardie's "Middle Pillar".

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@MMe said
"In the same word, finished to chanting/visualize the letter and go to the next, I need to visualize also the previous one?"

If you are only using the Hebrew letters to help you learn the notes, then, no, it was just a guide and not really related to the ritual - just a "practice sheet" for you.

If you are using the letters as usualy taught, you would have inhaled them and they would be gone."

I thought that adding other correlations such as color and musical notes, the rite would be much more effective.

Therefore: no colors, only letter in flame(what color? Pale blue as the pentagram?) + musical note for chanting, right?

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@MMe said
"The weapons of the archangels are to be visualize upward, downward or doesn't matter?"

Magical weapons are (essentially) never held point down."

Thanks, very useful information.

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@MMe said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"You can do that if it helps you visualize."

I see that is not a common practice doing so, at least for LBRP, right?"

Correct."

Ok, I undestand.

Jim Eshelman

@MMe said

"
@Jim Eshelman said
"This might be easier if you mentioned which of the many printed instructions for the Pentagram Ritual you are following. "

I'm starting with "Techniques Of High Magic"(Skinner/King) then put aside for your "776 1/2", Black Pearl, In the Continum and Regardie's "Middle Pillar"."

That explans why I couldn't figure out what you were doing - you're doing everybody! <vbg>