Bloodless Mass of the Phoenix?
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To be honest, my initial reaction was "if you are a bleeder, you shouldn't be a breeder. I don't want those genes in my pool."
But if you can handle a pin prick, you could scratch a small circle on your chest (like kids in jr. high used to scracth Def Leppard on their arms without drawing blood and then poke the center of the circle just enough to draw blood.
As stated above, there's the psychic impact this has on the adherent and equally import, an ingredient being added to the cake of light for its next purposes. You wouldn't want to take communion of the Almighty Sharpie, now would you?
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No, eating Sharpie sounds pretty horrible. Thanks for the suggestions; I'll bring them all up to the gentleman who takes a ridiculous amount of blood thinner - last time he "gave blood" for ritual, it took him about 5 minutes to stop bleeding (no one was really expecting that)
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Mostly as an echo...
My view is, if you aren't going to do it as written, then why do THIS ritual? Why not do another one instead?
Yes, I did write and publish "The Mass of the Mongoose" when I was about a II°, and it made a valid point... but, still, it's not the same.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Mostly as an echo...
My view is, if you aren't going to do it as written, then why do THIS ritual? Why not do another one instead?
Yes, I did write and publish "The Mass of the Mongoose" when I was about a II°, and it made a valid point... but, still, it's not the same."
Primarily due to my lack of knowledge of what is out there that could accomplish the same thing and illustrate the same meaning (or at least the meaning that I take away from it). I was looking for something that recognizes the higher deity (especially one linked to the Sun) while still making a point that man himself is a divine being and shouldn't be let himself be pulled, or succumb, to either extreme of "good" or "evil". I also was looking for something that was a reaffirmation of the law itself.
If there's something better out there, I'm open to suggestions. Maybe my impressions of this ritual are all wrong; but, what can I say, I'm new and learning....and learning... and learning.
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@Skia said
"I was looking for something that recognizes the higher deity (especially one linked to the Sun) while still making a point that man himself is a divine being and shouldn't be let himself be pulled, or succumb, to either extreme of "good" or "evil". I also was looking for something that was a reaffirmation of the law itself."
That's a great answer - and a great formulation of what you're seeking. Overall, very clear.
It was also an interesting post to me because my first reaction to it (as I scanned my mind over A.'.A.'. Class D documents and Crowley writings in general) was that I couldn't think of a bloody thing (er, in this case I guess I mean an unbloody thing
) that fit your description. This got me wondering (a) why I couldn't think of such a thing and (b) why I hadn't missed it. For a few moments I was utterly baffled.Then I figured it out. The answer (to my questions, not to yours) is that every detail of the Temple of Thelema ritual work (from the first initiation on) fills those exact requirements. So, for the last 20+ years, I've been living in a ritual world exactly like this - but none of it is public! (This also explains why I liked your above question so much.)
So... that answered my question, but not yours.
One thing to suggest is that you write your own. Draw on some of the poetry that you like from Liber 44, or from other sources, and create something new - just don't think of it as Liber 44.
The only other immediate thing that comes to mind is to suggest that you consider membership in Temple of Thelema. This isn't a solicitation - we specifically never do that. Rather, it's me having observed that you are looking for a certain kind of ritual context, and I happen to know one that meets your description.
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Thanks, Jim.
I believe I remember from a previous topic in some sub-forum here that there was a chapter within about 45 minutes from where I currently am. If I recall, the location closest to me only had "support" for up to 3=8 (not to derail my own thread, but is it common that not all chapters go too far into the grades?). Maybe I'm misremembering. Regardless, joining is something I've considered and will keep considering
Until then I'll make something and/or deal with a little bit of blood; it's not me that's the bleeder.
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You're not far from New York, right? That's a fully "up" Temple.
BTW all Temples do all First Order degrees. Not sure what you might bd remembering.
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"One thing to suggest is that you write your own. Draw on some of the poetry that you like from Liber 44, or from other sources, and create something new - just don't think of it as Liber 44."
This is probably a buried issue, but I managed to find something that feels just as moving for me. It's a part of "The Ladder" from The Winged Beetle.
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I love that poem. Once upon a time it was one of my very favorites.
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"Is there a generally accepted or adapted version of Mass of the Phoenix that substitutes something for the "gashing" the sign in your chest"
Here is one that I found. I'm not sure yet if it's what I want to go with, myself, or not. It seems like it is 3 or 4 times longer than Liber 44.
hermetic.com/dionysos/s_eucharist.pdf
This is the key point about the ritual that interests me. - "The magician becomes filled with God, fed upon God, intoxicated with God. Little by little his body will become purified by the internal lustration of God; day by day his mortal frame, shedding its earthly elements, will become in very truth the Temple of the Holy Ghost. Day by day matter is replaced by Spirit, the human by the divine; ultimately the change will be complete; God manifest in flesh will be his name."
It's clear, I think, that it was Crowley's intention that this ritual be performed every day by every magician. What is not so clear is all the different interpretations that I have read. Some say you should be using blood from making a cut, others say that it has nothing to do with cutting at all and that what you should really be doing is visualizing the symbol at the moment of climax and using the resulting semen instead of blood. There are also wide variances in interpretations of what the symbol should be. Some say an equal armed cross, some say an X within a circle, some say the mark of the beast etc.
Jim, do you do this every day? If so, whats your method?
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I've only done it lone or two or three times in my life. It's never been a part of my work.
OTOH, I have gone through long periods of practicing one or another form of eucharist (almost) every day, and (though my formula has changed significantly) I still consume one or another form of eucharist nearly every day.
BTW that passage you quoted is originally from Crowley's MT&P chapter on the eucharist in general.
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"OTOH, I have gone through long periods of practicing one or another form of eucharist (almost) every day, and (though my formula has changed significantly) I still consume one or another form of eucharist nearly every day.
"Can you detail how you perform your daily Eucharist? If it's personal, or secret, or something then I'm not trying to pry. Like Skia, I'm intending to make a Eucharist part of my daily practice, but I'm looking for clarification on some of the things I mentioned in my last post, and even considering what equivalent options there might be other than Liber 44, so if you have developed something that accomplishes the same goal just as well, that might be just what I'm looking for.
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@kerlem93 said
"Can you detail how you perform your daily Eucharist?"
No. - You correctly discerned why: One method is obligated, and my most common method is personal (but in the sense also that it is enormously difficult to explain). In short, I don't have something I can pass along.
Another approach: Decades ago, Anna-Kria King and I reduced the Gnostic Mass (A.'.A.'. Liber XV) to a short form for a couple to perform nightly - we called it the Gnostic Mini-Mass. For a stretch, we did this ceremonial form nightly, with or without less ceremonial forms.
Study the Eucharist chapter of MT&P for the essence of the formula + particulars of formula.
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Are you able to clarify any of the points that I mentioned in regards to performing Liber 44, or is that part of what you can't comment on? I mean, cut, no cut; semen vs blood; visualization on the symbol at the moment of climax instead of cutting? Someone even said that it was acceptable to prick the finger and draw the symbol on the chest with the blood as opposed to cutting, or scratching the chest every day. And also, what is the correct symbol that is supposed to be drawn?
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@kerlem93 said
"Are you able to clarify any of the points that I mentioned in regards to performing Liber 44, or is that part of what you can't comment on?"
Liber 44, as written by Crowley, contemplated literal cutting and literal drawing of physical human blood.
Some individuals have come up with their own compromises, such as doing this astrally. I have no clear opinion on these, since the efficacy would vary with individuals and conditions; EXCEPT that I have an opinion that it isn't The Mass of the Phoenix as written by Crowley unless it's done as written by Crowley.
Regarding alternate physical fluids, you have me in a corner on answering candidly
"And also, what is the correct symbol that is supposed to be drawn?"
I'm unaware of this being concretely recorded. For magical efficacy, I doubt that it matters. From the period it was written, and other details in the systems AC was writing and practicing at the time, I have every reason to believe it is some form of the Rosy Cross, i.e., of the intersection of a cross and circle - probably what most people know as the N.O.X. sign.
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"Some individuals have come up with their own compromises, such as doing this astrally."
I would think that some version of compromise must be completely legitimate. This is the one and only ritual that is actually written by Crowley that is referenced all over the place as being intended for daily practice. It wouldn't make much sense to do anything nearly as dramatic as cutting, gashing, and wounding every single day, year after year.
Well, anyway, I will have to see what I can work out. I appreciate the input that you were able to give though.
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There are other ways to do a eucharist than cutting
If nothing else: Bless a host and a cup of wine!
Again: Read the first page of the Eucharist chapter in MT&P.
(It's not that he intended that THIS ritual be done daily, but that some variety of eucharist be done daily.)
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@kerlem93 said
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"Is there a generally accepted or adapted version of Mass of the Phoenix that substitutes something for the "gashing" the sign in your chest"Here is one that I found. I'm not sure yet if it's what I want to go with, myself, or not. It seems like it is 3 or 4 times longer than Liber 44.
hermetic.com/dionysos/s_eucharist.pdf"
Thanks for sharing the link!
It's neat, but it doesn't have that certain something in it that gives me goosebumps or a feeling or change just by reading it; but, that's a "to each their own" thing. It's neat to see what others are doing or trying.
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