Potentially dumb questions about Enochian
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Ah, iI see. You're confusing Enochian magick with the apocryphal Book of Enoch. There's no relationship. (OK, there's one angel name overlap.)
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"Genesis 5:22Then Enoch walked with God three hundred years after he became the father of MethuSelah, and he had other sons and daughters. 23So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. "
The first account of someone being "taken up" by God in the Hebrew Scriptures...
People like to try to attribute stuff to him for that reason.
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@Sardonyx said
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"Genesis 5:22Then Enoch walked with God three hundred years after he became the father of MethuSelah, and he had other sons and daughters. 23So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. "The first account of someone being "taken up" by God in the Hebrew Scriptures...
People like to try to attribute stuff to him for that reason."
I just know there is discussion of Watchers and Watchtowers in the Bible (wiki mentions Daniel) and that these concepts are also in the Book of Enoch... and that it is called "Enochian" Magick. I recalled that Enochian magick was for the purposes of ushering in armageddon, which of course would tie it to the Bible, as well. Not sure where I read that. Perhaps in the work of Donald Tyson. Or maybe it was in the Book of Enoch. Or maybe it was the L. Ron Hubbard story. Apparently, I am the only one here, though, so I'll take your word for it since I have no practical experience in Enochian. (Someone should really change that name!)
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@redd fezz said
"Oh, I did not know that! I guess the name "Enochian" stems from someone's original misunderstanding, then. I suppose it was a misunderstanding of John Dee or his partner?"
Dee never called the system Enochian. That was an attribution by later generations once his work started circulating. (Dee called it the Angelical language.)
The naming seems to be based on a statement by Dee that he wanted to talk to angels as the prophet Enoch had done.
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@redd fezz said
"Jim, do you mean that just because people wrote about them in the Bible and the Book of Enoch, doesn't mean what these authors said was accurate?
I suppose if the Bibilcal authors wrote about Green Tara, she would be in the Bible, too, and my idea of her would be tainted. Hmmm...
I don't really have a problem with capital-T "Truth" anymore pertaining to anything relative; just thought it was a given that the Enochians had something to do with the Bible based on the reasons in this Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watcher_(angel)"
Red Fezz,
I see you have a little trouble integrating your internal powers and knowledge with the written "religious" records of humanity.
I had the same problem. In fact, when I started out with Magick, I despised the bible, almost all parts of it, as outright lies, or as pieces of truth that humans came up with, that had been bastardized for centuries. I cite the (1400's I think,) editing, bastardization, and raping of the "Christian" bible.
You must look at this like a Magician. There is a collective, subconscious truth that humans tune into every once in awhile. In the bible, it's usually when someone has imbibled a natural psychedelic, most notably Syrian Rue (the burning bush Mosheh "saw God" in,) and our old friend, the Mushroom, the "manna of exodous". (Behond, on the ground, a small round thing, the color of coriander seed -- off white to light brown, resembling hoar frost -- google images of psilocybe mushroom myceleum, and compare them to googled images of hoar frost -- that appeared in the morning before the sun got high, that melted like wax in the sun and when not kept properly, "bred worms and stank."
I don't know if you've ever been mushroom hunting, but all of these characteristics apply...
Sooo.. if you've got a bunch of drunk kings writing about how men shouldn't have sex with other men, (even though they probably did but made them sick to think others could do it,) and you have to sift through humans' experiences and interpretations of psychedelic experiences, you've got yourself a mess of shit that's hard to understand and easily HATEABLE.
But, you might want to try an experiment. Get the oldest printed bible you can, (probably King James,) and do some psychic tests. Think of an idea or word, then randomly flip through the bible and randomly pick a verse. You'd be surprised what you come up with.
This in itself proves the human mass-subconscious link. Now the only real difference between the Bible and the Libers of the Golden Dawn, is that the GD's stuff hasn't been passed through many languages and bastardized over the years. Nor does it have parts in it you have to skim through to see if it jives with the energy around you, (unless the dark ones are gaining power over you
.You don't think they used to have all the basics of Magic in the bible? Sir, they surely did. I have seen it myself in akashic records, but you can figure it out easily by skimming and putting parts together. The "mind of God" that makes trees grow a certain pattern, has made sure the lies and bits of truth in what people term as the "Bible" are easy to understand.. even for the loathsome "Christians crawling in and out of brothel, hospital, and meeting room. A sight as lovely to the wise as maggots in a maiden's eyes." - Crowley
Soo... it's comparable to you looking through Mathers' work after he was overtaken by the weak ones, trying to sift through what the weak ones don't want you to know, along with skimming through the information they are trying to keep secret from rigorous thinkers.
Just somethin' to keep in mind.
Oh, and if you wanna sample my .pdf book by Donald Laycock, Enochian Dictionary, (great for Enochian keys,) msg me and I'll send it to you. It's huge though, you'll have to download it from my comcast server. If you like it and use it, be sure to buy it.
I did not know that Dee and Kelly didn't coin their Angelic language "Enochian". But hey, maybe that's the all knowing "mind of god/man" that knew Metatron was the most "important" angel of Kether, and that someone named Enoch was elevated to that status.
You have to remember, when you read the bible, you're not just dealing with human's dance with divine knowledge, you're also trying to figure out if what you're reading:
a) Was inspired by a Human, Angel, or Alien (yes, from space.)
b) Has any merit and use to what you are doing, even though it sounds exactly what you are trying to figure out.
c) Was a dream, waking-experience, or psychedelic experience from naturals aforementioned.Good luck, frater.
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"The Christians to the Lions!!!"
-Crowley's commentary to Liber al vel Legis (220).
He says it like a dozen times. Crowley was the man.
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Is this website referring to John Dee's diaries?
hermetic.com/browe-archive/enochian.htmAlmost scrolling down to the end of the page is the heading Enochian magick and the apocalypse and I won't quote the whole thing for the sake of brevity, but there is quite a lot of reference to Christ and God, in particularly by the angel Nalvage, I guess.
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You mean the Nalvage quote? Read this from the point of view of Elizabeth England, soon after the first wave of the Protestant Reformation, addressed to the man who coined the term "British Empire."
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Ah, okay, so something about the communication process is not the literal word of the angel Nalvage, but filtered through the skryer's perceptions. This didn't occur to me. I thought they were just writing everything down rather verbatim similar to how Crowley received Liber Al.
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I think they were. But THEY were the ones having the conversation. The angel was speaking to THEM in particular, not delivering some universal message. It was an evocation, after all.
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Here's the problem with Enochian: it works! The odds of your having an authentic experience and making contact are very much in your favor.
Therefore, I think it is best undertaken only after one has some measure of success with non-Enochian, conventional astral "travel," including selecting target destination. The sort of practice that requires more effort and persistence - including some struggle - builds better astral "muscles." It's also better "wilderness training" (in the senses of both survival and coexistence with the terrain).
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^
"hilarious" joke didn't go over too well!Thanks for your input, everyone. Googled a bit on the dangers and it's interesting. I suppose I shouldn't dive right into it.
I was just curious precisely for the reason that it really works and I was sort of thinking of cutting right to the chase and asking some Enochian angels about some things to see what they'd say. As much as I appreciate my current practices, it is not as if I have conversations with Padmasambhava. But, conversation seems fairly common with Enochian entities.