Question on Neophyte Robe
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Ref: deleted post: I wasn't aware that was a secret? Otherwise I would not have posted it.
In fact I saw it even before I joined OTO.Even so, please accept my apologies.
I didn't know that the Liber Vesta robes were earlier, I thought they were the invention of a particular branch of AA?
But I agree, they are utterly ghastly. The designs that Regardie typed up are much more elegant.
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@Archaeus said
"Ref: deleted post: I wasn't aware that was a secret? Otherwise I would not have posted it.
In fact I saw it even before I joined OTO."Things have been published without permission of the owners. I don't take this as "public." Also, yes, you can often see these in public. At least at the time that I was Deputy Grand Master General, it was the view of the Caliph that these matters were confidential, so I'm electing to respect that position. (It's an official position of this forum, from its inception, not to expose things proprietary and confidential to other living orders. Even the fact that something is widespread general knowledge doesn't conflict with it being "secret" in a technical sense - e.g., I would not publish here the Word of the Third Degree of Freemasonry.)
"I didn't know that the Liber Vesta robes were earlier, I thought they were the invention of a particular branch of AA?"
I take at face value the editor's statement in the book, to the effect that this is a new liber based on a document from Crowley of the era.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Archaeus said
"Ref: deleted post: I wasn't aware that was a secret? Otherwise I would not have posted it.
In fact I saw it even before I joined OTO."Things have been published without permission of the owners. I don't take this as "public." Also, yes, you can often see these in public. At least at the time that I was Deputy Grand Master General, it was the view of the Caliph that these matters were confidential, so I'm electing to respect that position. (It's an official position of this forum, from its inception, not to expose things proprietary and confidential to other living orders. Even the fact that something is widespread general knowledge doesn't conflict with it being "secret" in a technical sense - e.g., I would not publish here the Word of the Third Degree of Freemasonry.)
"I didn't know that the Liber Vesta robes were earlier, I thought they were the invention of a particular branch of AA?"
I take at face value the editor's statement in the book, to the effect that this is a new liber based on a document from Crowley of the era."
That's a good point, I'll keep it in mind, it just seemed like the kind of thing that wouldn't be a problem.
With regards to Liber Vesta, I see that it was issued by V, V.V. and S.U.A., as far as I know, these are the same three responsible for the part I-IV of Magick (Which is actually a damn fine book).
So; which document were they based on? -
Probably just a typed or hand-written sheet of paper with the descriptions jotted. (I'm guessing. That would have been typical of AC.) From this, modern people created an official document for their lineage, with pictures, fleshed out language, etc.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Daegal said
"Jim out of curiosity what is symbolism of the 5" sides to triangle? "I've often thought it was intended to be 6" on either side - a 6 6 6 triangle - but I mostly didn't care enough to pursue historically."
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Hmmm thanks Jim. I would certainly see the 6". The 5" sent me into a whole series of ideas lol! mostly being 5" for each triangle, red fire triangle hinted at through color alone, and water 5" (3 sides each) so 5 & 6 theme, Rosy Cross etc. Also maybe 6 Ã 5 = 30 "L" etc. Idk but interesting.
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P.S. I know realized there are certain things one has to keep privy. I had asked about this specifically, and i must have misunderstood because i thought the answer was there were no formal oaths of secrecy? So to clarify we can NOT speak of certain things? Im little confused.
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@Daegal said
"P.S. I know realized there are certain things one has to keep privy. I had asked about this specifically, and i must have misunderstood because i thought the answer was there were no formal oaths of secrecy? So to clarify we can NOT speak of certain things? Im little confused."
A.'.A.'. has no formal oaths of secrecy below the Grade of 10=1 (though some things are best treated with discretion).
The remarks in question did not concern A.'.A.'..
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Daegal said
"P.S. I know realized there are certain things one has to keep privy. I had asked about this specifically, and i must have misunderstood because i thought the answer was there were no formal oaths of secrecy? So to clarify we can NOT speak of certain things? Im little confused."A.'.A.'. has no formal oaths of secrecy below the Grade of 10=1 (though some things are best treated with discretion).
The remarks in question did not concern A.'.A.'.."
Oh! I see. Ok thank you. Makes sense now.
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Sorry gentlemen one more question. Im almost done with having my probationer robe done. However i had just basic design for red pentagram on front and usual hexagram with gold Tau in center on back, gokd trim about hems. However now learning about particular measurements of triangles etc., (not using now however) I want to know for probationers robe insignia are there certain measurements? Inches for hexagram and pentagram? Sorry, thank you again!
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@Daegal said
"Sorry gentlemen one more question. Im almost done with having my probationer robe done. However i had just basic design for red pentagram on front and usual hexagram with gold Tau in center on back, gokd trim about hems. However now learning about particular measurements of triangles etc., (not using now however) I want to know for probationers robe insignia are there certain measurements? Inches for hexagram and pentagram? Sorry, thank you again!"
No measurements written, to my knowledge. Go by the pictures.
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Have fun with that 0=0 robe. It took me about a week of stitching like a man possessed, (Which is probably not far from the truth).
After that I never wanted to see another reel of gold thread for as long as I live, and getting the ribbon not to crinkle is no end of fun.
Still, the result was well worth the effort.
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@Archaeus said
"Have fun with that 0=0 robe. It took me about a week of stitching like a man possessed, (Which is probably not far from the truth).
After that I never wanted to see another reel of gold thread for as long as I live, and getting the ribbon not to crinkle is no end of fun.
Still, the result was well worth the effort.
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Lol yes! Its no easy task but I'm getting a little help. Is that cheating? Lol
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@Daegal said
"Its no easy task but I'm getting a little help. Is that cheating? Lol"
There's a traditional saying in the Mysteries: It's best to do it yourself... second best if it's done by somebody who loves you... and, if necessary, it's OK to pay to have it done.
Kinda like sex.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Daegal said
"Its no easy task but I'm getting a little help. Is that cheating? Lol"There's a traditional saying in the Mysteries: It's best to do it yourself... second best if it's done by somebody who loves you... and, if necessary, it's OK to pay to have it done.
Kinda like sex.
"Lol! Awesome! Well someone who loves me so im in second catagory!
im sure my girlfriend will have nightmares of gold thread though while i sleep comfortably happy lol. 
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@Jim Eshelman said
"There's a traditional saying in the Mysteries: It's best to do it yourself... second best if it's done by somebody who loves you... and, if necessary, it's OK to pay to have it done.
Kinda like sex.
"That gives the phrase "buy what is needful without haggling" a totally new angle.