The Mass of Choronzon and the Release of Because.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"If this is to be taken at all seriously, it's one of the stupiest and most toxic things one could do. (And FWIW any potent recommendation AGAINST this I might make would be mild compared to the one Soror Meral, with her Mercury-Mars-Jupiter conjunction, would have levelled.)
OTOH, perhaps I give the ritual too much credit. It's not really much of a ritual.
So actually I'm commenting on the intent, not the means of delivery. I'm probably giving aspiring, ignorant, foolish, inexperienced magicians too much credit. (I'm surely giving the ritual too much credit.)
Or, of course, I could take the position that the cosmic trash compactor and furnace exists for the exact purpose of weeding out those who are best reduced to preformative units, to start the path of spiritual evolution all over again."
That is the criticism I wanted to see.
I've been considering the works of Peter J. Carroll from a distance, trying to see if any of his systems hold water, as I am yet choose my particular path. His "Mass of Choronzon" seemed to either be the worst thing possible, entirely without substance, or something that held a surprising truth. I put myself in the consideration that it did to see how I felt about him, and I came up with what I could, but I agree with what you said; it is not really a ritual, but a consideration. The actions followed do not actually have the capacity to do anything but get you to consider if they do anything.
Pete's work runs in circles.
I tried that "act as if true" with a lot of his paradigm, and the collapse that you mentioned happened.
It's good to know I can soundly put the whole Chaos Magick movement behind me as mere intellectual consideration.
They were just the only group I was aware of that really tried to get entirely beyond Crowley, so I wanted to see if they actually got anywhere with it.
It's apparent to me now that the true Current is nowhere near their practices.(EDIT: and those placements for Soror Meral make perfect sense for the vibe I got from her writings. She has such a unique nobility of thought and action)
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This is the most telling line (emphasis added by me):
@Peter Carroll, Mass of Coronzon said
"The essential purpose of the conjuration as a whole is to increase the dominian of ones ego over the world in the hope of bringing the formless life force of the Kia more fully into play."
Making it seem more akin to a "Left-Hand Path" ritual than one seeking to increase universal entropy (ie, Chaos Magick). Though there are elements of the latter.
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@Uni_Verse said
"This is the most telling line (emphasis added by me):
@Peter Carroll, Mass of Coronzon said
"The essential purpose of the conjuration as a whole is to increase the dominian of ones ego over the world in the hope of bringing the formless life force of the Kia more fully into play."
Making it seem more akin to a "Left-Hand Path" ritual than one seeking to increase universal entropy (ie, Chaos Magick). Though there are elements of the latter."
Yeah, crosses my mind as attempted psychic suicide.
Though, Pete always acts like he's joking, so I always wonder if he's getting at something beyond the surface of what is obviously preposterous about it.
I think his point, if any, is that such an action doesn't actually do anything, by the very nature what you'd seek to do. Anyone's Angel would slap them in the face before something like this would be accomplished. -
A possibly related idea...
I was struggling with making my transition from Christianity to Thelema permanent, and I was considering performing Liber V vel Reguli. I never actually got around to doing it. As soon as I had written that I had determined to try it, my wife came and stood in the opening to our kitchen with a devious look, offering me an apple in her hand. For a moment, I lost the difference between the worlds, and I spoke to her as if she were already intimately familiar with what I was thinking. She gave me a puzzled look, and I sort of... remembered the rules real quick and checked myself. But I walked up and bit the apple anyway.
Over the following days, I was revisted by much of the mania and strong projections with which I had previously battled less successfully. It became the third and final, sort of 1/2-strength experience of that for me. I had to go back to the doctor and everything. It sucked.
On the other side of it, I came out with more of the same... more experience with being psychically overwhelmed.... more experience battling and banishing illusions... Remember, I didn't actually perform the ritual, but I did communicate successfully my intention to my subconscious to do so. It ended up being a sort of experiential reaffirmation of the things I had already learned the first two times I struggled with such experiences.
I can only imagine this Choronzon invocation to be the same sort of thing - something you learn from by surviving it.
Ever play 52 Pickup?
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@Bereshith said
"
I can only imagine this Choronzon invocation to be the same sort of thing - something you learn from by surviving it.Ever play 52 Pickup?"
Precisely. I got to see just how strong projections can become, and conversely, just how much work is needed to temper them. A lot. It's a very practical sobering, after all the craziness I found myself in with trying integrate some very strange experiences on entheogens, happening at the same time as a very synchronistic introduction to the esoteric, while still a teenager attempting to integrate myself into some sort of social role...
A lot at once, moving from extreme to extreme.
It's been a sort of psychological enema. -
"psychological enema"
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@Dar es Allrah said
"
Invoke the great spicy sausage onto your plate. Slice and dice imagining every stab with your knife and fork was the start of his dispersion. The ritually eat him - cursing each mouthful as you go and wash down with Rhodiola Rosea infused Vodka. Imagine him dispersing naturally by the functions of your body and finally - being utterly transformed into the now wholesome sh1t that you give back to the earth. " Perfect.
Absolutely sublime. -
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@Dar es Allrah said
"Well- at least it wouldn't be hard to banish with laughter at the end.
Personally - I can't read the word 'Choronzon' for very long without visualising a dried and cured spicy Spanish sausage.
Here's my ritual:
Invoke the great spicy sausage onto your plate. Slice and dice imagining every stab with your knife and fork was the start of his dispersion. The ritually eat him - cursing each mouthful as you go and wash down with Rhodiola Rosea infused Vodka. Imagine him dispersing naturally by the functions of your body and finally - being utterly transformed into the now wholesome sh1t that you give back to the earth.
It has one advantage over Peter's version: the sh1t comes out the proper passage instead of one being required to consume it at the outset.
just read the guys added comments LOL!
"Mmmmmmm..., Chronozon for breakfast. Of Champions, of course.
You know I read this thread and I must say something that seems important to me:
This "Mass of Choronozon" seems to be a bastardized, confused, misguided version of when one of us opens up our love for Lucifer, the Lord of Light, and he helps us connect to our Holy Guardian Angel.
As Crowley states, Set, Satan, is the Hadit of this Universe, of Fire, in the South. Just think, before the fall and merging of universes, the Sun could have easily risen in the South.
That means that Horus, Set-Typhon, Apophis, and Besz are all almost the same "rank" in regards to Element, (Earth=Besz; Air=Horus; Fire=Set; Water=Apophrasz.) This would further mean that communication with these imaginary "auditors" includes opening yourself up to their Divinity and receiving Word from your HGA as well as from their Divinity.
I shall surely give my Love to Lucifer le-Olam va'ed. But Choronzon is a different @#$%&*! story entirely. Now He does share some spelling and sound familiar with Chronos, of Set/Saturn/Satan. But I doubt our Dark Prince would have anyone try to "share" "Love" with his completely chaotic side without laughs planned beforehand.
It sounds like trying to be so powerful by receiving Word/Power from your HGA that your are able to convince Choronzon that he is Loved and not alone. Not something for the weak. You should truly get to "Love", completely, your own dark side before you try to connect it with others' dark sides.
G'day.
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Its interesting for me to see over the last few years how a lot of the "radical" fans of Chaos Magick have had a turnaround of sorts and many of them have started to acknowledge that the "conventional" systems of ceremonial magick (and especially Crowley's work) may in fact be pretty essential as a framework to actually getting somewhere. Alan Chapman is particularly interesting in this, as one can see in his books how his long foray into chaos magick actually ended up serving him really well AFTER coming back towards ceremonial magick.
Even Caroll's later books have had a decidedly different and more structured tone.
93!
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@Dar es Allrah said
"Maybe's it's akin to painters... we can all chuck the paint around when we feel like it, but unless there's a method to the madness then all you end up with are large dirty looking splodges instead of Jackson Pollock?"
I wonder if I could embed an image of a like button here
http://howtousetumblr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/facebook-like-buton1.png
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@Dar es Allrah said
"Maybe's it's akin to painters... we can all chuck the paint around when we feel like it, but unless there's a method to the madness then all you end up with are large dirty looking splodges instead of Jackson Pollock?"
Brilliant analogy, and a lesson hard learned.