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Devekut and Tzimtzum

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Qabbalah
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  • Z Zalthos

    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

    I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.

    While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.

    Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.

    Thank you.

    Love is the law, love under will.

    F Offline
    F Offline
    Fr Seraphis
    wrote on last edited by
    #10

    @Jim Eshelman said

    "The ego certainly can be stunned momentarily by dhyana; but that's mostly a stunning of the intellect and reactive faculties."

    93

    Exactly. Stunning is a good word.

    Temp dissolution of the 'I' and 'mine' notion (ahamkara), however, only happens in samadhi. Cognitive functions are shut down, only ................. remain.
    *sama *- one with, *adhi *- absolute.

    93 93/93

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    • Z Zalthos

      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

      I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.

      While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.

      Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.

      Thank you.

      Love is the law, love under will.

      J Offline
      J Offline
      Jim Eshelman
      wrote on last edited by
      #11

      @Dar es Allrah said

      "
      @Frater INRI said
      "Temp dissolution of the 'I' and 'mine' notion (ahamkara), however, only happens in samadhi. "

      Untrue. The formless states of dhyana are also characterised by a loss of 'I', and a unity with all. It really depends on who you read on which continent though. "

      A good orgasm will give "temporary dissolution of the 'I'," if you don't concern yourself with how long "temporary" is.

      Dar, I'm using the term only as in classic Hindu literature (just to be clear about word usage / definitions).

      "People lose a sense of 'I' and mine all the time, even when they aren't consciously trying in meditation."

      Indeed!

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      • Z Zalthos

        Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

        I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.

        While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.

        Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.

        Thank you.

        Love is the law, love under will.

        F Offline
        F Offline
        Fr Seraphis
        wrote on last edited by
        #12

        @Dar es Allrah said

        "The formless states of dhyana are also characterised by a loss of 'I', and a unity with all. "

        Yep, formless state of dhyana can be equal to samadhi.
        We are talking of the same thing here, I believe.

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        • Z Zalthos

          Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

          I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.

          While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.

          Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.

          Thank you.

          Love is the law, love under will.

          F Offline
          F Offline
          Fr Seraphis
          wrote on last edited by
          #13

          @Jim Eshelman said

          "

          "People lose a sense of 'I' and mine all the time, even when they aren't consciously trying in meditation."

          Indeed!"

          Ehm, "losing the sense of I and Mine" is not the same as samadhi, in my opinion (it seems we are talking about the different thing here).
          I lose the sense of pretty much everything while driving a very well known route, for example. But that doesn't even come close to the inner bliss, peace and LVX experienced in samadhi.

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          • Z Zalthos

            Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

            I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.

            While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.

            Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.

            Thank you.

            Love is the law, love under will.

            J Offline
            J Offline
            Jim Eshelman
            wrote on last edited by
            #14

            @Frater INRI said

            "
            @Jim Eshelman said
            "
            "People lose a sense of 'I' and mine all the time, even when they aren't consciously trying in meditation."

            Indeed!"

            Ehm, "losing the sense of I and Mine" is not the same as samadhi, in my opinion (it seems we are talking about the different thing here)."

            Exactly! That's what I've been saying 🆒

            "Strike! O, take me now, in an instant. Strike! with the passionate strength of thy love to overwhelm this silly thought I have of Thee, this struggling artifice. Flood the channels of my nerves with the lightning current of Thyself." - Liber Amoris vel Calicis, v. 17

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            • Z Zalthos

              Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

              I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.

              While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.

              Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.

              Thank you.

              Love is the law, love under will.

              F Offline
              F Offline
              Fr Seraphis
              wrote on last edited by
              #15

              @Jim Eshelman said

              ""Strike! O, take me now, in an instant. Strike! with the passionate strength of thy love to overwhelm this silly thought I have of Thee, this struggling artifice. Flood the channels of my nerves with the lightning current of Thyself." - Liber Amoris vel Calicis, v. 17"

              Lovely Jim, sweet indeed. 👼

              Can the Liber in question be found anywhere in its entirety, pls?

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              • Z Zalthos

                Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

                I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.

                While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.

                Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.

                Thank you.

                Love is the law, love under will.

                F Offline
                F Offline
                Fr Seraphis
                wrote on last edited by
                #16

                @Dar es Allrah said

                "Hellenism or Revelation... that is the question....
                Apparently..
                Not.
                And..
                Yet..."

                93

                <smile>

                93 93/93

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                • Z Zalthos

                  Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

                  I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.

                  While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.

                  Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.

                  Thank you.

                  Love is the law, love under will.

                  J Offline
                  J Offline
                  Jim Eshelman
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #17

                  @Frater INRI said

                  "Can the Liber in question be found anywhere in its entirety, pls?"

                  Along with some of my old poetry here: aumha.org/a/poems.htm

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                  • Z Zalthos

                    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

                    I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.

                    While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.

                    Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.

                    Thank you.

                    Love is the law, love under will.

                    F Offline
                    F Offline
                    Fr Seraphis
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #18

                    Thank you, Jim.

                    This touched my heart, striking deeply :

                    10. I am alone, in a cold, grey, desolate land. There is no other to be found, no companion to ease the going. Yet Thou art the Light I bear (even when I know it not), and the strong, single staff that supporteth me.

                    and yet:

                    16. Think not to hide from me, O belovéd One, in thy grotesqueries. I see Thee behind thy mask. It is thy lovely body which I love beneath these motley veils, this midnight comedy; for there is none other than Thee to my eyes, my taste, my touch.

                    93

                    Simply red.

                    93 93/93

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                    • Z Zalthos

                      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

                      I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.

                      While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.

                      Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.

                      Thank you.

                      Love is the law, love under will.

                      L Offline
                      L Offline
                      Lykathea
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #19

                      Interesting that dw3w is tomorrow, "the time of dw3t" in Egyptian, a homonym for the other common meaning of dw3t / Tuat (Gunther, 67). Might be etymologically related to devekut?

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