Social Phobia
-
93,
I debated whether to post this but hey, why not? I need help and you're all knowledgable people.
I suffer from social phobia but the thing is in a magick circle I have the utmost confidence when utilising forces etc. the problem is that this is not true outside of the circle. I have tried seeking 'professional help' and have tried post hypnotic suggetion, systematic desensitisation and CBT. Nothing has helped.
I was wondering if there was a magickal way to help me, I thought about goetic evocation but I was worried that facing the demons of my own psyche could make things worse. I also wouldn't know which spirit to evoke for my needs. I also do not have too much experience with high magick, but I do with low magick.
Any system/ritual/practice suggested would be much appreciated. Of course any other help would also be appreciated.
Thanks .
93's
-
If you are having anything that could realistically be described as a serious neurosis - and the level of social phobia passes that test - then I advise you don't touch Goetia. That's, at best, for the psychologically sound and strong.
That is, until you can control your own demons, don't expect to be able to control other demons.
Professional help is the best (presuming you get reasonably qualified help). You don't say how long this has persisted, the form it takes, or how long you have tried to reverse it.
Either this is a relatively minor thing that you just need to grow out of; or it's context-appropriate and you need to change context; or it has very deep roots and will take very serious psychological attention to adjust it.
I also wonderactually actuall mean "phobia" - a diagnosed, specific psychiatric condition - or if you are using it casually (e.g., to mean "really bad discomfort". If the latter, then it's definitely in the "grow out of it or change your social context" type of thing.
The best thing you can do magibasic are basiv things that fortify you with pure energy, such as the Lesser Ritual of the PentagraMiddlethe MIddle Pillar ritual; and simple meditation such as sitting for 15-30 minutes just watching your breath quietly.
-
93,
Thanks, I shall avoid the goetia. I have had t for at least 4 years and I was actually diagnosed with social anxiety disorder. underwent therapy from a clinical psychologist for a year with no improvement. It's more about the feeling when in certain situations. Without going into too much detail in the past I was psychologically bullied by my stepfather and that's what brought it on, I know I need to get rid of the past influences but they're very deeply rooted, I understand the problem its overcoming it which is the issue.
I do pranayama and daily LBRP practices and I shall add the middle pillar into that.
When it happens its usually starts with anxiety which then leads to the physiological reactions related to stress all of which adds to the anxiety.
Up until I was 13 I was very psychologically stable and probably the most sociable person, the reason am determined to get it sorted is I'm starting Uni next year and want a fresh start.
93's
-
I had social phobia at one point in my life. After living with my husband for several years he ranted a lot about the social and his job, and he used to take it on on my and tell me I didn't know the social right thing. I became obsessed with thinking I had aspergers disorder and used to read and post about it on message forums. Eventually, I realized it wasn't aspergers disorder, but rather that I in fact picked up other people's emotions and felt them.
Part of it I think is after getting married I didn't bother to get a career outside the home, and did not want one. Also I did not go out much, nor did I want to go out and do stuff. It would probably be considered a normal state for women on those fundamentalist Muslim countries ironically.
Are you still living with your step-father, or not anymore? Going off to college might make it go away, especially if you party like you should.
Also, ironically, I started using the goetia while having the social phobia. I wouldn't say it made it any worse, but then I did not specifically ever address that issue with my goetia working, instead addressing other problems in my life.
-
@mark0987 said
"Without going into too much detail in the past I was psychologically bullied by my stepfather and that's what brought it on, I know I need to get rid of the past influences but they're very deeply rooted, I understand the problem its overcoming it which is the issue."
There are all sorts of approaches to dealing with this and, unfortunately, I can't really work with you through a forum (or other than in person) in any detail. What you need is... well, what you need. I don't begin to have enough information to know what that is.
Some approaches involve reaching a resolution in yourself about the events. Some involve body work (where you are storing this old content). Some involve the (admittedly bigger) step of getting that your past doesn't define you - you are led by your future, not driven by your past. The future determines your present (but most people react as if their past determines your present).
Which brings me to the big thing, and I'm certain about this: You're anxious because you don't know how to react around other people or what to expect from them - and that's ultimately because you don't know who you are and what you want. You don't trust others when you don't trust yourself. You don't know how you fit or where to stand or how to act.
So, the real answer - which could take a moment of insight or (more commonly) take 5 to 10 years - is to find out who you are and what you're about. Uncover your core identity and discover your True Will, i.e., what force of nature you are.
People live stories. We live bad, tragic, pathetic stories when we don't have a better story to tell about ourselves. Write a great new story.
"I do pranayama and daily LBRP practices and I shall add the middle pillar into that. "
I specifically did not mention standard pranayama, because that can increase anxiety symptoms. (Anything resembling hyperventillating or even hyper-attention to controlling breath ties into the autonomic reactions behind anxiety.) I mentioned a specific practice that will bring you, physically and psychologically, to a more mellow, balanced state.
"When it happens its usually starts with anxiety which then leads to the physiological reactions related to
stress all of which adds to the anxiety."Sure. Yes. This ia great thing to know: You feel something in your body that you interpret psychologically, and then you have reactions, and then you make choices that are uncomfortable or later regretted, yes? Is the cycle something like that? (Tune into the body sensations.)
-
93,
Thanks Jim, I believe you are correct. I suppose its a blessing in disguise as my problems lead me towards magick and mysticism and then also to put me on the goal of a thelemite of finding my true will. I have been following liber E and O but I shall switch my pranayama for watching the breath.
Everything you said is correct I'll try tuning in next time rather than fighting it (I should have picked up that idea from the tao teh ching).
93's.
-
I have had a similar problem for my entire life. I found the basic rituals of Thelema to be the best and most effective means of combating the disorder. For some time I would self medicate with hard drugs, but this only killed my sense of compassion and destroyed my personality. I discovered that I had extreme sensitivity to the energy and vibrations of others (I have Luna in Cancer, Mercury in Gemini with a close square to Mars and opposite Saturn, and a Venus in Taurus)--so with a psychic sense in its most perfect manifestation (Luna is directly sextile to Venus, both in natural signs), and with the restless, nervous energy of Gemini made all the worse by a Mars in Pisces square Uranus/Saturn in Sag., I found that I was uncomfortable in public because I couldn't stop myself from "reading people," and to see the deepest depths and inclinations of those around you is not always comfortable at all.
The LBRP and LBRH and also the GBRP are perfect ways to combat disorder. Don't let the docs get you hooked on benzos. Those f-ckers are a bitch to kick.
Anyways, my thoughts on the matter.
-
I wholeheartedly agree with Jim on just about every point he's made (which I've actually read) so far. As someone who both has experienced social anxiety growing up, and knows quite a bit about psychiatry, I can tell you one thing: Through my use of, shall we say, 'sacred substances', combined with deep meditation and also at the same time conversing with others, I've come to know what I expect most from people, and what my role is exactly. I expect other people to provide me with love. My inner psyche is almost like that of a wounded child. Pathetic as this may sound to judgemental folk, it is true. Trauma in my past has given me a false sense of who I really am, and I carried the burden of hurt far too long.
Also, in a sense, it's not always so much about discovering who you are, but accepting that which you already know. Like Jim said, we are really lead into the present more by future influences than past events. Personally, lately, I've been looking to the celestial bodies for guidance and answers as to what I'm experiencing on a day-to-day basis both psychologically and physically.
Furthermore, yes, I would recommend staying away from Enochian magick at least for the time being. As someone with schizophrenia (or schizoaffective perhaps - diagnoses have become meaningless and sort of blend into one another), I simply won't go near it until I feel I'm ready. And that might be never, which is perfectly okay. The LBRP has helped immensely to sort of purge the excess elemental energy from me (at least that's how I see it working). I'm mostly dominated by Fire, which is rather wild in and of itself. It must be let out somehow!
Bless you, and I wish you luck.
Edit - By the way, in case you weren't aware of it, I'd just like to say that astro.com is a wonderful resource for astrological predictions, readings, etc...it really helps to know the exact time you were born, and of course, the city in which you were born.
-
I had a period in my life where I was extremely uncomfortable around people, mostly all in social settings. I would even sometimes have to do my grocery shopping very late or very early to avoid the discomfort. Once I recall going with a group of my best friends to the State Fair, and really getting very sick when we went into a beer tent which was overflowing with people.
This would have been almost twenty years ago.
My aversion to people was based on my belief that it seemed to me most all humans in my life were making very poor choices, all around. I saw these bad choices they were making as having a long lasting negative influence upon the environment in general, and it made me mad and disgusted to be in their company.
I had no compassion toward them.
I really now think though it was more true to admit that I was just as guilty as anyone as to not make the best long term choice, and I had no compassion for myself and my humanity.I wanted to avoid these social settings because it put my humanity in my face, which was very uncomfortable for me.
I worked in a situation in which I. Was in direct contact with hundreds of people everyday, in a large city. I learned that if you hang your head and avoid people, you most likely are gonna get jumped. It was a very deliberate process that I did to help me overcome the behaviors of extreme harm avoidance.
This was the time that I kept very detailed records, journals which in itself, the act of writing can. Facilitate great healings. There was a book called the Aquarian Goddess which was written for women to help get in touch with your bodies (all of them ) natural rhythms and quirks. By noting moods, creativity, pains, water levels, diet, dreams and creating data filled charts it was very soon that I could see my own cycles very clearly. I highly recommend that type of detailed self exam. Note the moon phase and sign, day of the week as well. I recommend Solunars.net for accurate sidereal astrology information, which I personally belief is more accurate then the traditional tropical.
I would try to eat as fresh and whole foods as possible. Foods high in fiber but with a low gylcemic load (brown rice is nice) will help you noramlize your system. Take small bites and throughly chew to aid digestion. You may feel better after a few weeks of taking a vit B supplement. I also think that deli meats and excess milk and eggs should be eliminated, they are not friendly to the body, and social stress already has your body on alert, hyper sensitive.
I also would make sure you are getting enough water, starting away from soda and caffeine drinks.Finding an outlet for your own type of creative expression is a great way to help knock out blockages we may have with issues. Something you can do only for fun and to feel good, the results are secondary. Experiment if you don't have a hobby, try cooking, puzzles trivia games, sewing, stacking cards, coloring, the list is endless. The process of working a hobby is very empowering and over time carries over into all aspects of our lives.
I really think that the whole population of the world would improve their health if they spent more time out side in nature, in the sun and fresh air, preferably walking or engaging their body in some sort of action.
There is a practice in which a person who routinely experiences a negative emotion is challenegd to think of their emotional experience as an alarm clock. In this clock idea it is suggested that one doesn't instantiously get to explode/implode but that the body actually has subtle perceptions and reactions that precede the full-blown anxiety/issue. If you think of a situation I which the negative emotion happened and try to recall how it unfolded, ie you received the phone call, and you got a sharp pain, 1o clock, then you picked up to go and you got hot and clammy 5 oclock, you arrived at the party and your breathing rate increased 7 o'clock, you walked into the room and threw up 12 o'clock.
It is thought that if you are mentally able to catch your self at different times, by the use of different methods you can in a way reprogram your beahaviors so you don't ever get to 12 o'clock.This method has great potential for success in that it allows the person to build up slowly to the desired end. Little achievements, baby stepping like it's shown in the awesome movie What About Bob.
I also think that for me one of the practices that I did which carried the longest lasting changes was my practice of creating affirmations and gratuity lists. This practice is vital IMO for healthy self esteem. If I list all the things that I am grateful to have in my life, not only does that validate that the world is abundant and beautiful, but that my own ideas of what I think are beautiful, helpful, abundant and good are valuable and righteous by their virtue of being my own unique perspective.
No matter how bad I think I have it, I know for a fact that many others have it a whole lot worse, and I should be thankful each breath for all the liberty that I have right now. I am allowed to do things that my grandmother was prohibited, I am allowed to do things my mother was prohibited, and truthfully I saw the deep need to shake off my limiting thoughts so that if I had a daughter, she would never be limited the way I was.
In many ways it could be said that I came from a horrible family of thieves, criminals, harlots and villains.....that's what everybody else said anyways, the black sheep.
Just like with AC who people say was a bad person....but he wasnt only that. My social fears had a source in my perceptions of what I thought others thought of me, and what I thought of them.When I was able to step back and act with compassion towards myself, by eating right, getting outdoors, excersizing, journaling and record keeping I was able to come to terms with my humanity and with my conditioned responses to perceived harmful situations. My acts of self empowerment gave me clarity so that I would not be blindly reacting, restricting and limiting myself.
-
93,
I believe the information you've all given me will help I now have a way of combating the physical symptoms and ritualistic and psychological techniques for changing my negative thought patterns. Well I'm ordering my Rhodiola Rosea capsules from amazon and layed asde a time for a daily practice incorporating the banishing rituals, middle pillar, watching the breath and then affirmations using malah beads. In 12 months time there shall be an improvement if not a cure.
93's
-
Mark, I used to have serious social phobia, and am still a bit of a 'nerd'.
I suggest you take this as a lifetime personal challenge. Why not seek help? Nothing wrong with that. Medication? nothing wrong with that. Self help groups? do it. Do whatever you have to to change. Psychologists? Psychiatrists?Don't let this stifle you life.
Can i remind you that 'working with yourself' is the very core of magick. It is difficult, dirty and strenuous work- but this is what separates the sheep from the goats. And this seems like a pretty good start to me.
Q
-
While I am not advocating anyone else use "drugs", I had great success using MDMA to overcome anxiety and depression. 1 dose is all it took and it was like i was a new person. The reason being I believe is that MDMA operates as an empathogen and I was able to emotionally open up to myself, diving into the root issues of the past causing me the present pain and discomfort. There is plenty of scientific studies backing up the legitimacy of MDMA for use in healing PTSD, especially with soldiers returning from war. Again, I'm not condoning it's use for anyone but can say personally that it helped me immensely when SSRIs and CBT were worthless. Read up on it here: www.maps.org/research/mdma/
-
93,
Drugs are not my thing, but if they work for you I'm happy for you. I won't even take medicinal drugs I don't lke the thought of artificial chemicals, that being sad I might look into the effects of MDMA and search for a natural form.
93's.
-
" The reason being I believe is that MDMA operates as an empathogen and I was able to emotionally open up to myself, diving into the root issues of the past causing me the present pain and discomfort."
The same can be done, probably more safely neurochemistry-wise with dissociatives such as ketamine. I'd much rather screw around with glutemanergics than dopamanergics any day. Besides, it's hard to find the pure stuff...
Re: MDMA,
I would be quite careful with the stuff. There's a good possibility that it permanently destroys dopamanergic axons in the brain. Which, needless to say, could leave you feeling permanently more depressed, or with even more neuroses than one had to begin with. This knowledge comes from Dr. Mark Viner's book called 'Suicide'. So you can check there if you'd like, and he lists his own source for the alarming concept.Acid, on the other hand, and mushrooms, can be beneficial methinks.
So far, as I've made it about 1/3 of the way through Diary of a Drug Fiend, it is dawning on me that with the more fiendish substances like stimulants and opiates/opioids, one must simply learn to go all the way with them, sliding down the cliff at ridiculous speeds head-first, and then just before going over the edge promptly stand up and halt! That's the trick with those things, knowing when to stop for a week or a month or even just a couple of days or hours, knowing that it's for the best and that you can resume use whenever you really think it's in your Will to do so.
Sorry for ranting... my own opioid medication has me rather stimulated right now
Blessings,
Chris -
I actually had terrible social phobia, especially around beautiful girls, when I was in high school. After a few-months stint eating straight L and Psilocin mushrooms, my ego was destroyed so that I didn't pay so much attention to myself, and thus to my "symptoms" that slowly abated. I paid attention to others, the sky, nature, etc...
The key to all neuroses is that the individual pays to much attention to themselves. It's like they take a stare into a mirror, but stare a little too long, all during a social situation.
I feel that ego-loss through "classic", tried and true psychedelics, is divinity's pattern's key to these sorts of neuroses.
MDMA is a dirty, unnatural, cheat that jumps from adrenaline to serotonin to dopamine, and actually makes your brain backwash your serotonin into your receptors that it is not supposed to be in. If you wish for more information, just google, "mdma brain damage".
NO OTHER DRUG MAINSTREAM causes brain damage but the amphetamines. Marijuana, LSD, Mushy, Coke, Heroin, has never caused physical damage to the body or brain, (aside from those obsessed with the thrust of a needle.)
Just saying, one might feel within one's self that the sacraments of Nuit and the higher ones that wrought this place from oblivion and hellfire that put these plants here, might be better than bastardized and damaged ones that have proven to be terribly damaging to the human animal and other animals.
Frank
93
93/93 -
Low doses of marijuana almost destroy social phobia, the same way that they aid in meditation. Crowley's "Loosening of the girders of the soul."
High doses of cannabis destroy a situation for one with social phobia. Instead of settling on down with the social groove and energy, they backlap on it because of the thought-loops and all the attention they should be paying on others, instead paid to them and their unexplored deeper psyche. It's not a viscous circle. One must simply, as Timothy Leary would describe it, "Break the Set."
Just as a dog that feels insane to lie down without first walking in a circle around the place they are to lie down, one attempts to master certain thought patterns and control them, all while going in a circle.
Dogs walk in circles as actual ritual, their Magick circle, their protective energy they have laid around them. I don't know how to connect this fully to social phobia. I am actually prepped for meditation and words... words.. words... blargh... words....
-
You are describing using a mild psychedelic to alter the set, instead of straight break it. Can be effective, and believe it or not, plenty of people with many neuroses including social phobia use cannabis to get over them.
For instance, if one with social phobia consumes cannabis in very low doses by themselves, during meditation, an established regimen of it, their personality eventually is attracted to the positive thought patterns that have emerged from altering or breaking the set, and their social phobia slowly or quickly dissipates.
Google social phobia and marijuana. Many people with this problem have discovered that they are not the people their parents raised, that they are sexual, communicative beings that they would have been able to find of themselves otherwise.
It's kind of like a mother eagle throwing her children out of the next. Activate that amygdala and get on with getting over whatever obsesses one's thoughts.
You are also describing using an opiate to "fix the new set" that they have wrought within their psyche and thought patterns. Very, very, very, very.... very effective. Nothing like it actually. "Getting a fix" during an intense, hopefully very positive psychedelic experience actually almost fixes or anchors one to that state of mind, so that even in normal situations that they have no problems accessing language or memory skills, (sometimes difficult when "balls to the wall",) they still have that higher connection with Nuit and their Angel.
You do have some secret knowledge, don't you? I think we all saw it, (though some very resentfully, ) in your threads about the restoration of the palace. What else do you know, oh gypsy woman? How can I get my friend out of a dimension where he lost himself, or found himself? How many "Aegipans" and "IO Pan!"s must I recite in trance before I free him from his place with the devil in the land of the dwelling of darkness?
If this is too out there, just tell me to go back to sleep, and I'll go back to sleep.
Frankie
93
93/93 -
93,
"are you doing any asana work?"
When I do pranayama I start with asana and then move into pranayama whilst still in asana. But the technique of watching the breath which Jim suggested wll be carried out in my asana also, to be honest it's the only way I can meditate without getting distracted.
93's