Random Messages
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Your question assumes that your own mind merely has the ability to interpret random experiences as having meaning. It assumes that your own mind does not contain the "spiritual forces" necessary to draw such experiences to yourself.
Yeah... we could go all day on the definition of self, and mind, and spiritual forces... Just sounded like you hadn't considered* yourself *as a source of spiritual experiences. It's one possibility though I'm also open to others. It's not a stupid question at all.
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@Frater Potater said
"http://thelema-and-skepticism.blogspot.com/2012/07/gems-from-forums-iv-crystal-clear.html#more
I cam across this blog post... I think it may relate to what you are asking. The blog entry was taken from a thread on Lasthal.com forums. One of the members there was asking others about a "communication" he received from a "spirit".
Read through it and let me know what you think."
Thank you for the link. Its interesting. Ill spend some time reading it and get back if I have any thoughts to add. Glancing over it, it seems to be discussing the method of discovering TW. Not sure if there is a part discussing chance events like this, and how that works.
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@Bereshith said
"Your question assumes that your own mind merely has the ability to interpret random experiences as having meaning. It assumes that your own mind does not contain the "spiritual forces" necessary to draw such experiences to yourself.
Yeah... we could go all day on the definition of self, and mind, and spiritual forces... Just sounded like you hadn't considered* yourself *as a source of spiritual experiences. It's one possibility though I'm also open to others. It's not a stupid question at all."
Oh I see. Makes sense, good point! I think i was making that mistake. Thank you Frater!
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@J L Romer said
"All these experiences I've had, that I mentioned, were mentally deranged! Why is this the case? They are just more "open" to suggestion??"
They didn't have on foil hats, right? That's the explanation.
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@J L Romer said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Communicating entities - whether Secret Chiefs or HGAs - use whatever means of communicating will get your attention. They're very good at using the mentally deranged.I have some wild stories to tell about this, but they really only tell well in person - inflection and all."
All these experiences I've had, that I mentioned, were mentally deranged! Why is this the case? They are just more "open" to suggestion??
93"
I was reading an antique book called Spirit Intercourse from the 1800s. This book explained that rich educated people make for poor vehicles because they have basically filled their heads with facts, but the simple people who haven't memorized texts and mastered language and maths Ect were ideal subjects to use as vehicles for mediumship, materializations and psychic tasks. They also were (the simple) more plastic so that after the opperTions, seances Ect they did not suffer permanent dis ease.
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@Veronica said
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@J L Romer said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Communicating entities - whether Secret Chiefs or HGAs - use whatever means of communicating will get your attention. They're very good at using the mentally deranged.I have some wild stories to tell about this, but they really only tell well in person - inflection and all."
All these experiences I've had, that I mentioned, were mentally deranged! Why is this the case? They are just more "open" to suggestion??
93"
I was reading an antique book called Spirit Intercourse from the 1800s. This book explained that rich educated people make for poor vehicles because they have basically filled their heads with facts, but the simple people who haven't memorized texts and mastered language and maths Ect were ideal subjects to use as vehicles for mediumship, materializations and psychic tasks. They also were (the simple) more plastic so that after the opperTions, seances Ect they did not suffer permanent dis ease."
93 Veronica,
Oh very good point. That makes sense actually, something along the lines of "emptying the cup" so to speak. I often had questions about the spiritual aspect of schizophrenia. I've personally heard seperate individuals describe the same voices and messages as one another. Usually its a deep demonic voice telling them to "walk into traffic" (very common phrase word for word) and even seen visually by many of these patients and described with similar details.
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@Frater Potater said
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@J L Romer said
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@Frater Potater said
"http://thelema-and-skepticism.blogspot.com/2012/07/gems-from-forums-iv-crystal-clear.html#moreI cam across this blog post... I think it may relate to what you are asking. The blog entry was taken from a thread on Lasthal.com forums. One of the members there was asking others about a "communication" he received from a "spirit".
Read through it and let me know what you think."
Thank you for the link. Its interesting. Ill spend some time reading it and get back if I have any thoughts to add. Glancing over it, it seems to be discussing the method of discovering TW. Not sure if there is a part discussing chance events like this, and how that works. "
Everything is a chance event. You are on your way to the bar, I call you and ask you to come to a movie with me. On the way there you find 20 bucks, and this wouldn't have happened at the bar... but on the way to the bar you could have been killed, etc, etc, etc.
We are the ones who notice the patterns. That's not that same as saying there is a definite existing pattern to be noticed. It's possible that spending too much time looking for patterns and messages can obscure the TW (although to be fair, it's just as likely that the TW will be found after enough wheel-spinning).
The whole conversation about spirit communications, assumes that there are actually spirits out there to be communicating with... see where I'm going with this?"
Yes, I get it. It makes sense, and I'm sur that's te logical explaination most of the time. However, I cqnt shake the uncanny often shocking coincedences that occur more rarely. Take for example my above experince, its more than just missng ing hit by a car pausing or 20 bucks on the ground! Here you have a strange rambling, pausingnear m, uttering a single phrase that coincides perfectly to the lette symbolically an answer to my important spiritual question. It seems there's more at work in some cases.
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@J L Romer said
"Yes, I get it. It makes sense, and I'm sur that's te logical explaination most of the time. However, I cqnt shake the uncanny often shocking coincedences that occur more rarely."
And that's what's important: The sense of wonder at the inexplicable alters you. More importantly, the state of mind that sees miracle - outside of any reason - is one of the marks that a significant part of the Great Work is maturing in you.
It's a queston of meaning, and nothing has intrinsic meaning. All meaning is imposed on phenomena by our psyches, usually involuntarily. Meaning is always a projection; that is, it tells you more about yourself than the thing you're looking at. When something within you compels you (involuntarily) to see the miraculous in the ordinary, you are well on your way to the Vision of Beatitude of Tiphereth.
And, although this is a projection, it's also the truth. Every phenomenon is miraculous.
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"Here you have a strange rambling, pausingnear m, uttering a single phrase that coincides perfectly to the lette symbolically an answer to my important spiritual question. It seems there's more at work in some cases.
"Jung called such events "synchronicities."
Wikipedia primer: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity
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@Bereshith said
"Jung called such events "synchronicities.""
Yes. I prefer "coincidence," since the word just means "two things happened at the same time."
Two things always happen at the same time. Everything, therefore, is coincidence.
Synchronicity is coincidence with meaning projected on it (see above).
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@J L Romer said
"Yes, I get it. It makes sense, and I'm sur that's te logical explaination most of the time. However, I cqnt shake the uncanny often shocking coincedences that occur more rarely."And that's what's important: The sense of wonder at the inexplicable alters you. More importantly, the state of mind that sees miracle - outside of any reason - is one of the marks that a significant part of the Great Work is maturing in you.
It's a queston of meaning, and nothing has intrinsic meaning. All meaning is imposed on phenomena by our psyches, usually involuntarily. Meaning is always a projection; that is, it tells you more about yourself than the thing you're looking at. When something within you compels you (involuntarily) to see the miraculous in the ordinary, you are well on your way to the Vision of Beatitude of Tiphereth.
And, although this is a projection, it's also the truth. Every phenomenon is miraculous."
Wow I really get this! Yes, I get it, its in ME noticing "it", the miracle that is in itself important! Sometimes I feel I've learnt more in a month on here, than a year otherwise lol. Ty Jim.
@Frater Potater, makes sense. I get this too. I guess however the instinct I have to reject this is from how it seems to deny the reality of a a higher power. If I'm making sense lol. It seems such a mundane way of viewing the "spiritual" journey, if you will.
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P.s. excuse any bad spelling, I'm using my phone and its a hassle.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Communicating entities - whether Secret Chiefs or HGAs - use whatever means of communicating will get your attention. They're very good at using the mentally deranged.
I have some wild stories to tell about this, but they really only tell well in person - inflection and all."
@Jim Eshelman said
"It's a queston of meaning, and nothing has intrinsic meaning. All meaning is imposed on phenomena by our psyches, usually involuntarily. Meaning is always a projection; that is, it tells you more about yourself than the thing you're looking at."
It's interesting to see both of these responses in the same thread.
Usually, one is pitted against the other. In other words, ideas of actual spiritual communication in such events is usually pitted against ideas of meaning projected onto events. Here, you've presented both ideas in response to the same event.
I'm not even sure I have a question about it yet. I just wanted to point it out. Complex possibilities...
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@Bereshith said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Communicating entities - whether Secret Chiefs or HGAs - use whatever means of communicating will get your attention. They're very good at using the mentally deranged.I have some wild stories to tell about this, but they really only tell well in person - inflection and all."
@Jim Eshelman said
"It's a queston of meaning, and nothing has intrinsic meaning. All meaning is imposed on phenomena by our psyches, usually involuntarily. Meaning is always a projection; that is, it tells you more about yourself than the thing you're looking at."
It's interesting to see both of these responses in the same thread.
Usually, one is pitted against the other. In other words, ideas of actual spiritual communication in such events is usually pitted against ideas of meaning projected onto events. Here, you've presented both ideas in response to the same event.
I'm not even sure I have a question about it yet. I just wanted to point it out. Complex possibilities..."
Yes. I was little confused too, but am taking it as they are basically one and the same! That each are true depending on perspective.
Right?
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My experiences in this arena were much more direct and not so subtle, albeit the experience for each individual is unique.
I cannot share these experiences for a variety of reasons. But if I did you would probably be blown away.
But I can confirm that messages have been conducted through random civillian's however, in my experience it's been mostly
women. I believe this to be relevant to the notion of the principle of Nuit, or a feminine "Womb or Vessel" like nature.
It's like temporary possession. -
@Pattana Gita said
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@milkBoxx said
"My experiences in this arena were much more direct and not so subtle, albeit the experience for each individual is unique.
I cannot share these experiences for a variety of reasons. But if I did you would probably be blown away.
But I can confirm that messages have been conducted through random civillian's however, in my experience it's been mostly
women. I believe this to be relevant to the notion of the principle of Nuit, or a feminine "Womb or Vessel" like nature.
It's like temporary possession."Oh pleeeeease. That's merely a social construct.
"No, actually I'm being completely honest. It could be different for others, but this is how it's been for me.
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No, I really didn't know what to expect. I think perhaps you have a problem with someone experiencing something
in a way that fails to fit YOUR expectations. I'm not here to take issue, perhaps some people experience it in other ways.
All I'm saying is this is how it's been for me. -
I objectively recorded my experiences in my journal. Women have been the ones who mostly channel to me.
I never said a man cannot channel, only that these are my experiences. If I develop a hypothesis as to why
this is and decide to share that hypothesis I expect it to be respected as a valid point in relation to my own
unique experience and not those of others. Every path is unique to the individual and I made it clear to you that I have no gender slant. I'm not speaking
universally only to my specific experience. Also, it has nothing to do with what having a womb means! I only said that it seemed relevant.
What is so difficult to understand that each individuals path is unique? I respect if you have seen both. I'm not arguing that. I only see
an individual who is blatantly trying to deform my original statements to reflect a gender bias. I see both men and women as equal and yet they are unique, otherwise Thelema would not be of interest to me for obvious reasons. When you insinuate that I have a gender bias you are merely distorting my original statement
to start an argument for your own ego. I obviously can respect your own experience, I don't understand why you fail to understand mine? I've never
heard of a man being a High Priestess if you want to live in a PC world where that exists by all means do so but don't berate me with eye rolling and cherry picking
parts of my statement to turn this into a sexist issue.
