Order and Value of The English Alphabet
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93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
93,
You've really got me interested now.....I was only studying English qabalah because it would be easier when it comes to gematria. As for finding keys in Liber Legis I am not knowledgeable enough yet but I hope one day to be so, in magick without tears Crowley believed study of the book was the most important thing.
93's
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93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
An important aspect is that each person should be developing their own personal understanding of Qabalah.
I have something of a personal "order and value" that works great in developing my own understanding.
Some times I share those results on the forum, my methodology left unspoken (if hinted).
Perhaps in the future, after years of working with it, I shall have some "general truths" to offerIf it all ready exists, perhaps a person or small number of individuals can re-discover it.
Otherwise I see it as a more communal effort, a building of shared meaning. -
93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
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93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
I use this one:
A = 0 = Air = 0 The Fool
B = 1 = Mercury = I The Magus
C = 3 = Luna = II The Priestess
D = 5 = Venus = III The Empress
E = 0 = Earth = The Disks
F = 7 = Aquarius = XVII The Star
G = 9 = Taurus = V The Hierophant
H = 11 = Gemini = VI The Lovers
I = 0 = Fire = The Wands
J = 13 = Cancer = VII The CHariot
K = 15 = Libra = VIII Adjustment
L = 17 = Virgo = IX The Hermit
M = 19 = Jupiter = X Fortune
N = 21 = Leo = XI Lust
0 = 0 = Spirit = The Trumps
P = 23 = Water = XII The Hanged Man
Q = 25 = Scorpio = XIII Death
R = 27 = Sagittarius = XIV Art
S = 29 = Capricorn = XV The Devil
T = 31 = Mars = XVI The Tower
U = 0 = Water = The Cups
V = 33 = Aries = IV The Emperor
W = 35 = Pisces = XVIII The Moon
X = 37 = Sol = XIX The Sun
Y = 39 = Fire = XX The Aeon
Z = 41 = Saturn = XXI The UniverseIn this cipher, NOTHING = 93.
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93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
-
93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
-
93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
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93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
The English Order:
A:1
B:2
C:3
D:4
E:4
F:5
G:6
H:7
I:8
J:9
K:10
L:20
M:30
N:40
O:50
P:60
Q:70
R:80
S:90
T:100
U:200
V:300
W:400
X:500
Y:600
Z:700This is the same format that is used with other Holy Alphabets. It is a simple and elegant system, and harmonious with that of prior Aeons. Albeit, now the Holy Alphabet is English and the others useless. All this babble about ancient "holy books" is rubbish, in the same way that one cannot use the rudimentary physics required to operate a steam engine to power a space probe.
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93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
@Mephis said
"The English Order:
A:1
B:2
C:3
D:4
E:4
F:5
G:6
H:7
I:8
J:9
K:10
L:20
M:30
N:40
O:50
P:60
Q:70
R:80
S:90
T:100
U:200
V:300
W:400
X:500
Y:600
Z:700This is the same format that is used with other Holy Alphabets. It is a simple and elegant system, and harmonious with that of prior Aeons. Albeit, now the Holy Alphabet is English and the others useless. All this babble about ancient "holy books" is rubbish, in the same way that one cannot use the rudimentary physics required to operate a steam engine to power a space probe."
Why is 4 attributed to both D and E? Wouldn't it be simpler to just have one letter per number, that way you could go up to 800ïŒ
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93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
@Mephis said
"This is the same format that is used with other Holy Alphabets. (...)"
Come on, do you really think it would be that easy?
Also, there's what Archaeus noted, and anyway, I'm sure many have tried this format and similar ones, myself included, and have found it unsatisfactory.
As an additional note: order and value seems to imply there's another, "correct" order of the alphabet, so presumably just attributing the values won't cut it.
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93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
-
93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
"Thou shalt obtain the order & value of the English Alphabet; thou shalt find new symbols to attribute them unto." II:55
I've often wondered in the "new symbols" could be the International Phonetics Alphabet.
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93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion?
And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me. I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system. Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's.
@mark0987 said
"93,
I was reading a book called, 'The Serpent Tongue', in which the authors claim to have found the key to the cipher in Liber Legis to develop a system of English Qabalah. Now I want to know if anyone else has an opinion? ."
JSK did not find the key to the cipher. The person that claimed to find the key to the cipher was Jim Lees. Jake happened to join Jim's group of practitioners around the time the foundational work of the E.'.Q.'. commenced.
@mark0987 said
"And by that I mean anyone with more experience than me."
I don't how much experience you have so it may be the case that you have more than me but I will offer my opinion based on my very limited experience with it: I wouldn't go as far to agree that it is THEE ONE E.'.Q.'. system but it's workable without having to do a lot of (or any for that matter) finagling. I'm comfortable adopting it as my go-to system for English Qabalistic analysis when I need to.
Why I am comfortable using it as my go-to for English Qabalistic analysis is because I hold the point of view that transliterating an English word into it's Greek, Latin or Hebrew equivalent a). leaves a lot of room for error and b). seems unnecessary. If I'm working with English why use another language?
@mark0987 said
"I personally don't like it. No one knows if the cipher is for the English qabalah, whilst such a system could be developed I believe there would be a lot more 'gematrial connections' than the proposed system"
I'm not sure what you mean by 'Gematrial Connections' but what wasn't emphasized in "The Serpent Tongue" that is highly emphasized in "The Magickal Language of the Book of the Law" by Cath Thompson (Jim Lees' literary executor and also a member of the group of people that developed this system) is that the ultimate test of the veracity of your analysis lies in the ability of a given number to be examined in multiple religions/philosophies/worldviews etc. and yield a consistent, coherent and harmonious chain of ideas. If this is what you mean or are pointing to when you say "Gematrial Connections" then you may want to pick up Cath's book and test the full system for yourself.
@mark0987 said
"Basically should I just focus on Greek and Hebrew Qabalah? Or should I also explore English qabalah? Or would this be a waste of my time?
93's."
That is something you will have to decide for yourself. Given that the Hebrew Qabalah is much more widely accepted then perhaps you should start there and move on to another language when you have some mastery of it.
