Conversing with House Spirits
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Indeed, try separating the paragraphs. It would help, such a chunk is daunting on the eyes. I was doing posts like this when I first got here, head overflowing with things I had up to that point no external reflection on, so I understand the need to get it all out. Just try and direct the flow a bit more. Someone told me the same back then and it helped tremendously to ground me and learn how to use the forum respectfully.
Grammatical grievances aside...
I agree about banishing. The important thing to notice about the phrase "Apo pantos kakodaimonos" is that it says "get behind me, spirits", not "go away". It establishes a control, not a flat-out obliteration--if suddenly the house is silent after successful daily banishings then you'll know them to be a mere fixation and you can cut your 'losses'. Even so, if you manage to befriend them, it would have little theurgic value. It's profoundly common for fresh aspirants, newly ignited on the astral, to pull low spirits towards them like moths to flame, and that can slow you down if you let it and needlessly obsess. Instead of asking who's the head honcho, as the owner of the house and resident magician make yourself head honcho and set a sanctified space to care for your wife, raise these children, and carry out your A.'.A.'. Work.
Perhaps one can help in your wife's recovery? I know Crowley and a friend or two appealed to a Goetic spirit for the health of another friend who was hospitalized, which had success(I believe that incident was discussed in the introduction to the Goetia book). But really that's the only thing I can think of. Healing work that you are capable of yourself would probably be more effective anyway. So yeah, Star Ruby after Star Ruby after Star Ruby, every day. Memorize it, get the postures right, study people's views on it, make love to that ritual. It will add a dimension of control and sanity to the situation that is necessary before even considering what to get out of it.
Ever studied Chaos Magick? It seems you'd have a taste for it. Understand that I studied it for two years and still ended up joining A.'.A.'., though the information is still important to consider for the intuitive sorcery side of things. I still make sigils, use servitors, etc... Check it out if you haven't. Fuck all that "Luciferian Warlock" nonsense, if you ask me.
93's.
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There are some excellent answers here.
One tiny point (as I head into work on the bus), just for the record: Apo really does mean simply "away." The same Greek word is the prefix of words like apogee (the point most "away from the earth'). Pantos just means "all" (as in pan).
But that doesn't detract from the general excellence of the post.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"One tiny point (as I head into work on the bus), just for the record: Apo really does mean simply "away." The same Greek word is the prefix of words like apogee (the point most "away from the earth'). Pantos just means "all" (as in pan)."
As I understood it, APO without an accent mark above the omicron means posteriority(if that's even a word
you get the point). For me it implied using the forces targeted as a tool, illuminated and contained by True Will, rather than eliminating them, which is the power in it(again, for me). What is that quote about even 'evil' germs being able to be turned and used for 'good'?If that's wrong I'll take it!
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@P is for Pomegranate said
"As I understood it, APO without an accent mark above the omicron means posteriority(if that's even a word
you get the point). For me it implied using the forces targeted as a tool, illuminated and contained by True Will, rather than eliminating them, which is the power in it(again, for me). What is that quote about even 'evil' germs being able to be turned and used for 'good'? "My Liddell & Scott is at home, and I'd rather look that up than answer you off the cuff. This doesn't sound right, but, as I said, looking it up is the more prudent idea.
What doesn't sound right is that I'm don't recall any instance of ancient Greek distinguishing meaning by accent mark. But then, I'm decades past my peak on this and relying only on good karma for most of it
(By the way, why do you say this is unaccented? Crowley's published versions had no accenting at all (as a typographical matter). Or, at least, that's my memory joined to 90 seconds of looking up the most accessible online copies. <vbg> -
@Jim Eshelman said
"By the way, why do you say this is unaccented? Crowley's published versions had no accenting at all (as a typographical matter)."
That's a good point. Wish I could ask the guy!
(I pulled out my Book of Lies and noted that indeed no accents were found anywhere)I'm getting this information from the web nexus for the lineage I'm working with. I know very little of actual ancient Greek grammar, only enough to properly preform XXV really. In the section on this ritual that point is clearly made, that it means behind and not away; they made sense of it by expounding on the virtue of using the daemon from a position of strength rather than kicking 'im out the door. Seemed sound to me so I didn't think to look it up on my own(bad habit I suppose
).I look forward to when you have the time to set it straight.
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To reiterate what has all ready been said:
BANISH! BANISH! BANISH!Considering all that is swimming about in your head, I would not worry about the Goetia for now.
Most especially considering that there are youngins about.In addition to the Banishing, I suggest setting some limitations upon these Spirits contacting you.
Establish that you shall only receive communications under certain circumstances.Frankly, I think you should forget it all and focus on your Probationer Work.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I read "Conversing with House Spirits" and was expecting some insight into working with the Spirits of the Zodiac.
Imagine my surprise...
I found much of what was written to be troubled and, quite frankly, troubling! I hope you get whatever help you need from wherever you hope to find it.
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#1- Thanks for all the replies, and the critiques. No real reasons for the grammer other than it was late at night, I was fatigued, and I was purging. That being said, I get alot of those complaints, especially from my wife. All I can say is when some would be speaking the same words- I notice they do not speak the punctuations. Muddled head- yeah, probably; got alot going on in there- BUT i WILL WORK ON IT.
2- I will continue to work on the head honcho in the house. Kinda hate rank in alot of ways- my basic buddhism; causes problems with labelling. I can assure you things were alot worse. Things are not being thrown at me or others the way they were.
Although last week a stack of dvd's narrowly missed me- I think it was mostly to get attention than hostility. We also have a very volitle nearly 11 boy who is potently stormy, Highly vicisouly angry at his mother for 'putting his dad in prison' even though he was kept at near starvation levels and tight social isolation.3- I do not mind spirits in my realm, my entire life I have 'company' and several times have had my life saved; Like the time I was pulled over the top of a 300 ft. cliff while hanging onto a prickly pear cactus and foothold collapsed in the middle of the night during a survival trip. Always have live near cemetaries. I prefer to have them like the gang of mortal friends one hangs out with- we all have personalities- sometimes we bump or grind, but if we are not one for all and all for one; seems alittle zenoelitest to demand them be 'under me' in some derogatory way.
4- One thing which may be an issue, I just did not bring it up. I am a multiple "alien abductee", in fact, my now deceased sister stoicly claims it was because of "Them" that I was even concieved as my dad was vasectomied long before i came along- but I am more like him than anyone in the family in personality and likeness even though he died when I was 3.
5- As for abandoning the "Warlock" issue, not sure what one "Magic Form" superior or inferior to another. Should not a person magnify the Talents (as in Parable of the Talents) they are an inheritor of? I see witches, sorcerors, magicians- I assume each is working to magnify thier calling. Could someone explain?
6- I reall do appreciate all the counsel I recieved, though I am concerned over the need to pick out the punctuation and grammer at almost the cost of acknowledging the validity of what was said. Seems kinda like looking at a picture and being unhappy with the individual brushstrokes in an attempt to downgrade the entire canvas. True enough, my writing can reflect Dali struggling with Picaso over the same paintbrush while on LSD. So I will work on it- just try to focus on what is being said rahter than the mistrokes of how it is said if you can-(it is hard I know).
7- much humble thanks again. I am happy that with such a long way to go I have people farther down the road to Illuminate some of the rock and potholes I may grow lax and not pay attention to.
9393/93
Dark Matter -
A true story that may have a relevant moral.
Last night, Marion and I tried a new wine we hadn't had. It was a particular Negroamaro Primitivo blend, a couple of years old, from the right part of Italy for best results. We took it untried to our favorite restaurant for a regular Monday night prix fixe menu, and found the special was a grilled pork loin.
If we'd known what was on the specials menu, we wouldn't have brought a Negroamaro Primitivo. But, of course, we plowed ahead anyway.
As we worked through soup and salad, and the wine began to breathe, we had a hard time hooking into it. The real issue was that it just wasn't at all characteristic of the variety. It did turn out, however, to be a perfectly lovely generic-type red with just a hair of white pepper spice (barely discernible, and mostly in the nose). It was only a letdown to the extent that we had expectations based on the variety.
(If you're actually interested in the wine story as it unfolded, you can read our report on <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.WizardofWine.org">www.WizardofWine.org</a><!-- w --> - but, meantime, back to the story.)
The wine was a lousy Neg-Prim, but it was a perfectly enjoyable whatever-it-is. Plus, it went with the pork much better than if it had been the wine we thought it was.
In the old Morgan Deck (not to be confused with the Morgan Tarot), there was a card with a really badly drawn circle, and a caption, "It may not be a perfect circle, but it's a perfect Whatever It Is." (Or something like that.)
There used to be a popular T-shirt of a young boy and the caption, "I know I'm good for something, because God don't make no mistakes." (Or something like that.)
With these thoughts arising in mind near the end of dinner (assisted, no doubt, by that wine), I remarked to Marion that this might be a principle of Thelemic wine tasting: In addition to the usual criteria of wine assessment, including the acid-fruit-alcohol triad and terroir and variety traits, etc., there's a further principle: All that aside, what is it good for? (In this case, we recommended it as a pizza wine.)
So it is with your spirits.
Your categories might be getting in the way. (Strangely, you show lack of discrimination and focus in so many ways, and then hyper-attention to your categorizing.) They only good or bad in the same way that any other house guest is good or bad: that is, according to how you feel about them as guests.
Most relationships go bad from inadequate communication. Instead of labeling them bad spirits, find out what they're good for. It's just a matter of communication and observation.
Really, just think of these as house guests. That's exactly the right idea, I think. For one, it puts you in the driver's seat without you have to get all worked up about authority and rank. Second, you can see that your comfort with a lot of spirits is like a comfort one might have for a lot of cats... or for a lot of people hanging around the house. Treat the spirits the same way: They are welcome as long as they don't spill too much stuff on the rug, make for a nice mix with your other guests, etc. You don't ever need to judge any of them as bad spirits, though some may be a bad mix with the others and with your family. And sometimes you don't want people around - sometimes you need the quiet, and you should be able to expect it.
Grace, firmness, and clear communication should be able to handle all, or almost all, situations.
I bet that would go along with your Buddhist leanings, also.
Remember: If something isn't a good what-you-thought-it-was, it is almost certainly a spectacular whatever-it-is.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"In the old Morgan Deck (not to be confused with the Morgan Tarot), there was a card with a really badly drawn circle, and a caption, "It may not be a perfect circle, but it's a perfect Whatever It Is." (Or something like that.)
There used to be a popular T-shirt of a young boy and the caption, "I know I'm good for something, because God don't make no mistakes." (Or something like that.)
(...)
Remember: If something isn't a good what-you-thought-it-was, it is almost certainly a spectacular whatever-it-is."
Awesome! This alone was worth the thread.
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Master Eshelman;
I do thank you so much for your wine analogy. Sadly I am not the conoseur you are; but I do get the point. Sadly, I do not mean to describe my house spirits as good or bad necessarily- it appears I really screwed on that. As houseguests, yes, ajnd my hope is to get along with them all, hoping that at least with Reason we can learn to dwell together in some form of appreciable harmony. Even on the mortal plane I have a practice called, "Take the devil to lunch". There is little doubt I can be a certain and immediate thorn in the side of the most patient person when i fail in my mindfullness. Usually my "lunchguest' will show me this without me asking or his needing to verbalise it. Thankfully like I said the real troublemekers have left for the mostpart. With my wifes health being as delicate as it is, trying to keep things calm if not wholey supportive from the unseen realms is important IMO.
"The wind crosses over the water
and makes a wave;
Therefore we see the manifest
brought to pass by the unmanifest"
What I thank and do can create alot of wind on many levels.
I like the approach of padma Sambhava; he I am sure could have done some great exspellings exorcisms and what have you, but he Saw, they each and several of the spirits had value, and could be a added beauty to the tapestry which was Tibet.
So, they were allowed to stay, upon agreed principles, amd their nnate talents became blessings. So i wish it to be with my guests.I wish to say more, but my sleep meds are kicking in, so I need to heed it.
Blessings and incredible Thanks for your time and wisdom and courtesy