I'm going through the experience of the Abyss...
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@Archaeus said
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Simply put; its better to help than to hinder, and if you can't help but only aggravate the problem then get out of the way.93 93/93"
But by mislabeling it, he is not helping himself, he is hindering. Correctly understood, the conditions he is suffering can be helped, but incorrectly understood, his conditions cannot be helped. The gift of Discernment is very valuable here.
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Vadox, Archaeus
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
@Vadox said
"hawk child, i think i know what you mean by pain inside screaming... and i think it goes from karma, that you havent fulfilled something, missed opurtunity in past lives. In such case its not abyss."
"The gross must pass through fire", so of course some of my experience back 2-4 years ago is a Karma thing. I know/felt it, that I have been "so to say" paying for my Evil deeds...
But "The Vision and the Voice" is my testimony. It's like it's written to myself.
Why did my Angel finally leave me? I didn't do what the Black Brother does, abandon it... It was saddening for me to have this blissful experience with her and afterwards seeing our communication slowly fading away - actually it was panicking when i realized what was happening - and beyond all horror to finally lose connection with her...
The more I tried to stay in contact, the more she seemed to pull away from me...
So either I lost her because of 7=4; me taking the Oath of the Abyss (I did my essay and I did take the oath: I swore in blood on TBOTL about 2,5 years ago to accomplish the great work.)
OR... I accidentally broke connection somewhere along the way losing myself forever... If we are to think of this final alternative; I might as well kill myself... But I won't... Since I am the one KNOWING what actually happened; I am the one KNOWING who I am; and I am the one KNOWING my own destiny.
I try to hang in there... Do the work and if I succeed perhaps I will some day "unite" with my Beloved and achieve true UNION. I can't even imagine how that would be like... I can't even desire it... Since I feel imperfect, impure, dirty and therefor unworthy of such an event...
@Archaeus said
"Simply put; its better to help than to hinder, and if you can't help but only aggravate the problem then get out of the way."
Great post and well said!
Love is the law, love under will
Peace
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"Why did my Angel finally leave me?"
Is this a physical flesh and blood woman you are referring to, whom you have associated with your HGA? You did mention a relationship with a physical flesh and blood woman and a child earlier, her leaving you seeming to herald the beginning of this crisis for you. Am I correct?
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@Archaeus said
"Simply put; its better to help than to hinder, and if you can't help but only aggravate the problem then get out of the way."Great post and well said!
Love is the law, love under will
Peace"
"Pity not the fallen! I never knew them. I am not for them. I console not: I hate the consoled & the consoler."
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@Takamba said
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@Archaeus said
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Simply put; its better to help than to hinder, and if you can't help but only aggravate the problem then get out of the way.93 93/93"
But by mislabeling it, he is not helping himself, he is hindering. Correctly understood, the conditions he is suffering can be helped, but incorrectly understood, his conditions cannot be helped. The gift of Discernment is very valuable here."
Logically speaking you are correct, but then correct is not always useful: What I mean is that it's best to let the process play itself out rather than interfere, in the present state its not relevant what the sufferer calls his ordeal, only that he puts all his energy into engaging with the experience, not wasting energy on wondering what to call it or in defending himself from the opinions of others.
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@Takamba said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
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@Archaeus said
"Simply put; its better to help than to hinder, and if you can't help but only aggravate the problem then get out of the way."Great post and well said!
Love is the law, love under will
Peace"
"Pity not the fallen! I never knew them. I am not for them. I console not: I hate the consoled & the consoler."
"Adolescent
Compassion is the vice of Kings
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@Takamba said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"Why did my Angel finally leave me?"Is this a physical flesh and blood woman you are referring to, whom you have associated with your HGA? You did mention a relationship with a physical flesh and blood woman and a child earlier, her leaving you seeming to herald the beginning of this crisis for you. Am I correct?"
I was wondering that myself but hadn't gotten around to addressing it yet, it might be worth asking directly:
@Hawk Headed child: Are you talking about a flesh and blood woman or your HGA?
Are you even making a distinction between the two?
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OR... I accidentally broke connection somewhere along the way losing myself forever... If we are to think of this final alternative; I might as well kill myself... But I won't... Since I am the one KNOWING what actually happened; I am the one KNOWING who I am; and I am the one KNOWING my own destiny."
Brother; this is a huge warning sign!
I suggest you read it to yourself very carefully
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Takamba, Archaeus
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
@Takamba said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"Why did my Angel finally leave me?"Is this a physical flesh and blood woman you are referring to, whom you have associated with your HGA? You did mention a relationship with a physical flesh and blood woman and a child earlier, her leaving you seeming to herald the beginning of this crisis for you. Am I correct?"
You guys will probably jump me and scorn me for saying this... but yes... mine Angel actually is another human being. Suddenly one day after doing my true will for a few months this beautiful woman, came in my way and I felt "intuitively" her being mine Angel - I just knew. Let's not go into details to why this was so. I got KNOWLEDGE from writing and calling her. Working with her...
Getting inspired in a way never inspired before...
I figure the reason to why she is a human being, is because I am an Ox; I am all a man of earth as much as one can be (You should see my Horoscope.). I can't astral project, get visions etc (It happens but seldom). When I was little i tried to pretend that my dolls and bears had life... But I couldn't they were dead objects... I am stuck in "reality" so to say and a spiritual vision is not something that come to people like me, just like that... I had some experience, not much though...
I only deal with "real life stuff" so to say...
Now this Angel came into my life. And I actually had this intuitive feeling that I was going to push - had to push - her away from me. I don't know how to put this in words, but the human part of me wanted a normal life, a normal relationship (I sure didn't dream of finally choosing to live the life of a Beggar! I cried when I "intuitively" knew what I had to do...). But even so, even if I knew I scared her and pushed her away from me, by acting and talking as I did...
I immediately "intuitively" ignored trying to be normal and started working against her treating her as she was mine Angel. And if it wasn't for the experience and TRUE KNOWLEDGE I got from this episode in my life - I would have called myself delluded and wouldn't have called her mine Angel...
It's of course her "inner being" i treat as min Angel, not the human part. I'm therefor not idealizing - She was a bit cruel I would say: I actually felt her sadistically taking pleasure in my suffering, being separated from her! I therefor can make a distinction between "the human part" and her "spiritual nature". She got "flaws" I'm sure after being in an abusive relationship for 8 years, and hasn't got any clue at all to being any angel of mine - today probably thinking I am one crazy, maniac - acting and talking the way I did
It's her "inner being" that is mine Angel... If you understand what I mean?
@Archaeus said
"@Hawk Headed child: Are you talking about a flesh and blood woman or your HGA? Are you even making a distinction between the two?"
So, yes I am making a distinction between the two...
I'm not obsessive either (One could say that I was, when this mad love was rushing through my body). I have actually said this to myself many times: "If I am deluded please let go of her..." But today it's more than "her" at stake... I have got - true knowledge - and to many events carrying pieces of information, so many signs leading up to this critical experience and point in time when she finally left me... That there is no turning back, there is only one future ahead of me and that is to:
"SPEAK"
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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@Archaeus said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"OR... I accidentally broke connection somewhere along the way losing myself forever... If we are to think of this final alternative; I might as well kill myself... But I won't... Since I am the one KNOWING what actually happened; I am the one KNOWING who I am; and I am the one KNOWING my own destiny."
Brother; this is a huge warning sign!
I suggest you read it to yourself very carefully"
Archaeus,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Perhaps you like me to be "active" in this therapeutic session of ours. But I have re-read and failed to understand what you mean. Please, i'm curious: Tell me what it is that YOU see here.
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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@Archaeus said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"OR... I accidentally broke connection somewhere along the way losing myself forever... If we are to think of this final alternative; I might as well kill myself... But I won't... Since I am the one KNOWING what actually happened; I am the one KNOWING who I am; and I am the one KNOWING my own destiny."
Brother; this is a huge warning sign!
I suggest you read it to yourself very carefully"
Archaeus,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Perhaps you like me to be "active" in this therapeutic session of ours. But I have re-read and failed to understand what you mean. Please, i'm curious: Tell me what it is that YOU see here.
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace"
Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.
The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
If on the other hand we think outside the Thelemic paradigm, I would say differently.
Call it the Ordeal of the abyss if you like, but follow out the Ordeal of separation from your beloved. If you have been cast out into the abyss by your angel then so be it, go through with it whole-heartedly, give your all and deny not one drop from the cup.
I also highly recommend you read Liber Cheth.
93 93/93
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Hawk Headed Child, I'd like to take a wild guess. Is your name Jon?
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"You guys will probably jump me and scorn me for saying this... but yes... mine Angel actually is another human being."
Not scorn, no; but I need to hasten to say that this isn't the HGA.
Now, it's always possible that a person anchored some aspect of the experience of the HGA for you for a while. That's common enough. We see the Angel in all sorts of phenomena (including, but not limited to, other people). Someone that awakens a deep experience of intimacy within us is certainly capable of igniting a new relationship to intimacy itself (and this is a key characteristic of the K&C). In decades past, I've had this jump-started in me at critical points by remarkable women in my life; I've experienced it through astral entities that claimed to be my Angel (and offered authenticating clues; and sometimes, also, were inauthentic); I dove into gematria furiously for years, only later realizing that I was building an inner language to use for communicating with the Angel until the channels were sufficiently matured to work on their own; and so and so forth and the other stuff.
People in our lives serving in this capacity are much like crystal balls or other skrying devices: They are able to serve as a reflection to us of something internal that we can't (at the moment) otherwise see outside of ourselves. And this can be quite common in the years of the approach to the Knowledge & Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel.
And it's not the Angel. It's an early taste, and an encouragement, and a way of communicating until we progress further and have the capacity to experience the Angel and our relationship to it without an intermediary.
From this one fact you have shared, we have much more clarity on your state. It isn't the Geburah/6=5 state I described, or anything to do with The Abyss. It's a common projection in the sphere of Malkuth. Your current darkness (or darkness and light rhythm, as I think you've depicted it) are the ordeal of the Path of Tav, or one of the earlier, preliminary thresholds.
The beautiful news is that there are experiences, growth, and attainment ahead of you far beyond anything you've yet encountered. You're near the beginning of your journey, not the end; and that's a remarkable thing. You have so much more to look forward to.
But, meantime, you have to complete your current "tasks" (those set for you by your life, karma, the Angel, whatever). I don't have a clear opinion on whether you have a psychiatric condition that needs treatment, or are passing through an existential crisis. (It is at least the latter; I don't have a clear sense of whether it also includes the former). By the way, the "dark night of the soul" (at its several levels) occurs when someone who has authentically connected to the Divine suddenly loses the means of doing that. In your case, it appears to be because you were anchoring that inner link to a particular person - your "way of worship" at that time. It can also happen just in the course of passing through the grades, when we outgrow the illusions of one particular phase so that our old means and methods no longer work. The solution is invariably to find the new means that is characeteristic of our new state.
"Getting inspired in a way never inspired before...[.quote]
And that's just the beginning!"I only deal with "real life stuff" so to say..."
"Then that's probably your current ordeal. She came to serve you in your Earth stage. If you want to continue the Work, you need to grow past that. Some part of you already has (most likely). I would suggest that her departure isn't a loss (in the sense that it applies to this conversation), but a gift - a clearing the way, creating a vacuum, for the next step in your growth. As long as she was around, you likely never would have looked past the material.
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@Archaeus said
"Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.
The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
93 93/93"
93
It's important for me to tell the truth and be real about what I have experienced... And Of course reason (your words on my screen) has no effect upon my actions anymore. I have sacrificed everything. No one is getting hurt by me living my special life. There is only some suffering, and even if I try to look another way for something else to do, there will still be suffering.
Now suffering is a sacrament and therefor: Where I am at I have to treat you as a dung of Choronzon. I'm sure you understand.
As Jesus said to Peter: "Stay away from me Satan!"
Of course mine can be a human being. Have u set the rules in this house of God? And what is the difference between a humans "inner nature" and "your higher self" (This could really start to be a play with words!)? In the end - but two different experiences coming to us, depending on the very nature of the man experiencing the phenomena of his own universe.
It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!
Some see "Aliens" others see "Angels"... If you know what I mean... I would advice against describing any objective reality to any of them.
Stay put! Do the work and shut up!
93 93/93
Peaceactive
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@Takamba said
"Hawk Headed Child, I'd like to take a wild guess. Is your name Jon?"
Who are you? Do I know you? My name is: John
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@Archaeus said
"Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
93 93/93"
93
It's important for me to tell the truth and be real about what I have experienced... And Of course reason (your words on my screen) has no effect upon my actions anymore. I have sacrificed everything. No one is getting hurt by me living my special life. There is only some suffering, and even if I try to look another way for something else to do, there will still be suffering.
Now suffering is a sacrament and therefor: Where I am at I have to treat you as a dung of Choronzon. I'm sure you understand.
As Jesus said to Peter: "Stay away from me Satan!"
Of course mine can be a human being. Have u set the rules in this house of God? And what is the difference between a humans "inner nature" and "your higher self" (This could really start to be a play with words!)? In the end - but two different experiences coming to us, depending on the very nature of the man experiencing the phenomena of his own universe.
It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!
Some see "Aliens" others see "Angels"... If you know what I mean... I would advice against describing any objective reality to any of them.
Stay put! Do the work and shut up!
93 93/93
Peaceactive"
That's actually exactly the response I expected, but then you asked my opinion, if you follow my alternative reasoning then you can carry on as one in the abyss should.
A black brother is simply one who cannot let go.
Let go.
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@Takamba said
"Hawk Headed Child, I'd like to take a wild guess. Is your name Jon?"Who are you? Do I know you? My name is: John"
I am very aware of some things, John. Forgive the spelling error. I think I know your "Angel" more than I know you. I'm leaving it at that. All I've said so far to you here applies doubly.
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@Archaeus said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
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@Archaeus said
"Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
93 93/93"
93
It's important for me to tell the truth and be real about what I have experienced... And Of course reason (your words on my screen) has no effect upon my actions anymore. I have sacrificed everything. No one is getting hurt by me living my special life. There is only some suffering, and even if I try to look another way for something else to do, there will still be suffering.
Now suffering is a sacrament and therefor: Where I am at I have to treat you as a dung of Choronzon. I'm sure you understand.
As Jesus said to Peter: "Stay away from me Satan!"
Of course mine can be a human being. Have u set the rules in this house of God? And what is the difference between a humans "inner nature" and "your higher self" (This could really start to be a play with words!)? In the end - but two different experiences coming to us, depending on the very nature of the man experiencing the phenomena of his own universe.
It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!
Some see "Aliens" others see "Angels"... If you know what I mean... I would advice against describing any objective reality to any of them.
Stay put! Do the work and shut up!
93 93/93
Peaceactive"
That's actually exactly the response I expected, but then you asked my opinion, if you follow my alternative reasoning then you can carry on as one in the abyss should.
A black brother is simply one who cannot let go.
Let go."
93
You are treating me like this human being; you have the respect of this dirty old Beggar
. I'll carry on!I'm letting go of everything, been doing it for quite a while now... It's kinda scary actually... Letting go like this... You see when I left my home and everything I owned - I had this preconceived idea of how the future would evolve and be like... I clinged on to this "inner picture" of mine for quite a long time... Finally I was forced to let go of it...
Letting go of everything...
Today, it seems like I don't know anything anymore, except how to breathe and to do what feels correct to do at this very moment... The following verse from the book of the law feels more important than ever:
"44. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."
Staying present...
93 93/93
Peace
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@Takamba said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
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@Takamba said
"Hawk Headed Child, I'd like to take a wild guess. Is your name Jon?"Who are you? Do I know you? My name is: John"
I am very aware of some things, John. Forgive the spelling error. I think I know your "Angel" more than I know you. I'm leaving it at that. All I've said so far to you here applies doubly."
That is so cryptic and also kinda spooky! What was the purpose of tormenting me by awaking this tremendous curiosity of mine!? Who on earth are YOU!?
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@Archaeus said
"Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
93 93/93"
Of course mine can be a human being. Have u set the rules in this house of God? And what is the difference between a humans "inner nature" and "your higher self" (This could really start to be a play with words!)? In the end - but two different experiences coming to us, depending on the very nature of the man experiencing the phenomena of his own universe.
"
I've read a lot of fantasy and science fiction, and I've often noticed the stories reflect a much higher level of initiation than the author actually has consciously. I've also found that I used to put certain people on a pedestal, that they can't possibly measure up to and then be disappointed when they don't live up to my fantasies, but not really, because now I am more aware of the phenomenon. Its really good I haven't been tempted to put anyone up on a pedestal since I stopped going to O.T.O meetings.