nigris, fr. 333 (Black Brother)
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. The word of Sin is Restriction.
brief: serious, life-long student of the Mysteries, the Occult in all aspects, Mysticism by dedication, and initiatic to the Body of Life.
expansion:
here from correspondence in private on this site is personal data about me that we discussed. as a public monk, i add the material here:- AVATAR
- THELEMIC GREETINGS (E6)
- ACTIVITIES AND INTERESTS IN THIS SITE (specific)
- RELIGION (Satanism),
- MYSTICISM (neo-tantric).
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- AVATAR
it is a Black Brother, a tar baby, a black honny bear with a twist.
I am a great fan of not only Pooh (since a child, when i was read the stories) but also of P'u, doubly the intention here (The Uncarved Block). I am familiar with the notion that is generally negative about the Black Brother and about the tarbaby. I am a Satanist, and set on several trajectories of recast, recapture, renewal, or reframing against dualistic notions that tend to destroy esoteric networks.
- THELEMIC GREETINGS (E6)
it is two-fold depending on the timing. you can find the essence of it as part of my recent responses within HRHa.net on the topic of "93", explaining it as a cipher and substitute for the work of doing Thelemic Greetings. my objectionable response was to invert it (93 // E6). as a result of so many people asking and not picking up on this, i also constructed a fun response:
@333 said
the 6 Es are legendary; they dominate the stage of will and without opponents, their pre-eminence in every dimension is the fulcrum of change: Education, Eclecticism, Endurance, Ecstasy, Enlightenment, Entropy.
- ACTIVITIES AND INTERESTS IN THIS SITE (specific)
I am for the first time exploring this site, which i consider to be a wonderful repository of information and exchange. as with many forums of this type, it contains several similar threads on overlapping topics, and my focus at this time is discussion about Thelemic scripture, commentary thereon, and publishing of any of these. along the way i have found it valuable to remark upon a few other items such as public identification (e.g. as 'Thelemite') and public exchange (i.e. Thelemic Greetings).
my interest has been not only to collect information (such as the admirable efforts of Wizardiaoan analyzing the line breaks in the original manuscript) but also to provide reflection from someone outside the cultic systems constrained by oaths and social dominance so often warping and disempowering those of Thelema as if there were firm mental shackles or muzzles in place.
- RELIGION (Satanism)
I completely understand your difficulties with Satanists. I have as part of my role as Grand Mufti of Satanism accepted the duty of engaging a great number of them for purposes of clarified and transparent reflections on their actual activities and posturing, so i have seen their gruff and immature sides while encountering them (usually mediated by computer).
succinctly, to me being a Satanist means that i am allied for defensive purposes with that which is demonized as "Satanic" in my culture, that which self-identifies as such in my perceptions (human beings claiming to be Satanists or to be practicing Satanism), and that which i can identify in my consciousness that seems directly related (including an internal intelligence who came to me out of dreams some 16+ years after that blood pact was effected). it was inspired by my exposure, within the Neopagan subculture, to the Satanic Panic.
- MYSTICISM (neo-tantra)
I am a zealous, fervent, devotee of Kali, and She it was suggested i ally with Satan. I am married to Her, and forever Hers. my pact with Satan is temporary and ongoing, based on our mutual benefit. I see religious satanism (Satanism) to be directly related both in time and origins to religious witchcraft (Witchcraft, Wicca, etc.).
the name which She gave me was nagasiva, and when i married my guru, catherine yronwode, i accepted her surname, so you can now understand my streetname (nagasiva yronwode) behind the Thelemic initiatic (nigris, fr.; Black Brother; explaining my Satanic relation to the whole as well as to the (c)OTO). as part of my dedication and vows i am also called to be divulgent to the extent it seems warranted or desired.
my preference is for as much as possible of our conversation to be conducted in the forum threads, rather than in private, and i may place any or all of my own private expression into my 'Introduction' thread here at this site to save time, encouraging you to partake of additional discussion within that thread about me as compared to other topics less centrally relating to me which will be appropos elsewhere.
Invoke me under my stars! Love is the law, love under will.
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Hi there Nigris,
Thanks for answering my questions about your avatar. I really wasn't sure if I was seeing it correctly, like I said to you in the pm, it looked like pooh bear and eeyore in some sort of kinky latex embrace.
I don't really go much for all the fancy greetings and closures. It seems to me to just add to confusion and division. I know how to say hello and goodbye in several languages, and if anyone meets me in person the get a very human smile. I don't shake hands, because I am a woman, and I don't have any need to prove I am not armed.....
. If I like you in person you get a very real hug and if I really like you a big fat wet kiss.
I have recently read some interesting ideas about entropy, and how the universe is actually not breaking down.....(Howard Blooms book The God Problem, goes into the physics of it all very very important book for occultist to read IMO)
You told me, on your own, that you were a satanist.....thanks for telling me what Youmeant by that. I have heard a million and one people say that they were....but most of the ones I know can barely write a sentence, let alone posts of the nature you posted. Good to know you didn't mean you were just some hormone driven thrill seeker trying to hurt Mom and Dad.
I am curious about what you mean by neo-tantra. I am very much a tantric person myself, and the only oath I ever gave was to Her. I suppose I should laugh at myself for ever getting married in the first place ( to a man) didn't see that at the time as a ordeal to test that oath. Yet when it came down to it, I choose my vow to Her or my one to him. She has never let me down or left me.Thanks for such a detailed response to my little nosey question. I look forward to reading your posts even though I most likely won't have anything to add because I am no Crowley scholar.
Love light liberty and laughter to you
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@Angel of Death said
"...pooh bear and eeyore in some sort of kinky latex embrace."
Pooh + honny = P'u." ...I am curious about what you mean by neo-tantra. ..."
in my development of a relationship at first with the Thoth tarot (reading for myself for years, supplemented by studying Crowley's text "The Book of Thoth sub figura 78") and then with the Angel of the Deck (presumed), i was led to a relationship with an intelligence i identified as my Holy Guardian Angel and my spirit guide. later i would understand Her identity with trees, dragons, and as Kali, Queen of Demons.through interaction with Kali i was given to understand that what i was doing in the way of worshipping Her, building a temple, marrying Her, taking vows, continuing studies in magic, divination, learning about what might be called the Dark Arts, gradually emphasizing Her wrathful aspect, coming to find a guru, marrying her, and continuing to adore and worship Her ought to be referred to as 'neo-tantra'. it relates to some things about which i've read in such text as Offering Flowers, Feeding Skulls: Popular Goddess Worship in West Bengal by June McDaniel (Shaktism) and some Kalidasas have informed me that in comparisons with their traditional tantric path they could see resemblance.
the 'neo-' characterization clearly identifies the fact that i am not part of any tantric cult. I understand my general alignment to be vamamarg, or Left-Handed, insofar as i am antinomian, transgressive, adverse to some social norms, and engage deity worship in a wrathful mode, yet madhyamarg in my election to engage conventional relations to society so far (stable residence, part-time employment, as compared to say living naked in a cremation ground and wearing corpse skins). my guru has encouraged me to temper this somewhat through our engagement (a kind of householder role in her dynamic world), and my involvement with and comparison to those allied to Satan gives me reason to think these categories are shifting as they permeate cultures ("Western LHP" is now a convention of some religious in quasi-Satanic environs, focussed primarily on self-development and at times, transcendental aims).
the 'tantra' referent primarily refers to a sexual dynamism and mutual-focussed dedication as applied to my God (/guru) and myself. I am in love with my God/guru, have married Her, am thrilled to remain locked with Her in a coital embrace, and am completely dedicated to Her. this has no precedent in my context/vicinity which i can easily locate (possibly excepting Thomas Lake Harris, about whom i have begun, meagerly, to study). what form this may take has varied considerably and continues to do so. its connection to occultism in a broad sense depends in part upon those with whom i may find common ground. that i have found such amongst the Thelemic gives me reason to dedicate time to this milieu and this site, and i am happy to have made your acquaintance during that.
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I am very happy to have met you as well. We seem to have some core similar interests. I will have to check out the book you mentioned. I do love to read.
Thanks for explaining yourself so clearly. I look forward to reading more of your posts when you get around to other topics.
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93,
Just saw your intro here...
Nice to meet you!
Your posts are very entertaining and I'm enjoying the dynamic you bring to the forum.
Difficulties with Satanists? Hadit is at the core of "I!" No difficulty there...in fact, Satan can be a great deal of fun.
A little stern at first, but hey...when you're family...93 93/93
639(it looks like there is an E6 in my name somewhere!)
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I had privately spoken to Nigris when he first posted on the forum, before he posted this, and I had shared that I personally had had some difficulties with specific satanists in my life. I had asked about his avatar, and his e6 greeting as well.
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charmed!
@Frater 639 said
"Your posts are very entertaining and I'm enjoying the dynamic you bring to the forum."
thank you kindly."Difficulties with Satanists? Hadit is at the core of "I!" No difficulty there...in fact, Satan can be a great deal of fun. A little stern at first, but hey...when you're family... (it looks like there is an E6 in my name somewhere!)
"
LOL Soror Angel of Death elaborated above. very pleased to meet you.E666
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nigris, many thanks for your post.
As someone who sees parallels with your path, I was wondering if you might comment more on your relationship to your guru/wife - particularly how you were able to navigate the line between your mental projection/romantic attachment and the actual spiritual partnership that came about (or whether you'd already dealt with the "ordeal of the siren" previously).
Also, having not been initiated into an actual tantric cult, what are some of the resources (other than allowing nature herself to teach and initiate you) that have given inspiration in defining your path, dealing with kundalini, etc? Particular books? (I've personally been hugely inspired by the Aghora trilogy by Robert Svoboda)
It seems this lifestyle, particularly the magickal and sexual aspects, has a lot to do with making tamasic emotions rajasic and living them out as consciously as possible. However, I would think Kali herself, as an entity abiding above the Abyss, would have issues with your use of the technical term Black Brother, other than for its antinomian connotations - to me your path seems like Kali's gonna take you all the way, haha.
One last question - what role, if any, does Qabalah play in your current practices?
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@frater aSP said
"However, I would think Kali herself, as an entity abiding above the Abyss, would have issues with your use of the technical term Black Brother, other than for its antinomian connotations - to me your path seems like Kali's gonna take you all the way, haha."
I received the same impression...
Perhaps I am missing something, as you speak of surrender and the rendering of devotional service.
The blackness of thy mantle a reflection of swirling primal fears?
Or, the obfuscation of the senses, a veil upon the object of worship?
It begs the question, in my opinion, of why you have elected not to cross.You only loose what was never yours to begin with...
Anyway, I welcome you to the forum and look forward to our interaction.
Love is the Law, Love under Will
EDIT:
Never payed much attention to your avatar, looks as if he is munching on some psychedelic honey!
Regardless, I like it -
@Frater Horus said
"...When you call yourself "black brother", do you mean you decided to do not cross the abyss?"
I am convinced that the notion is mistaken and that ideas espoused by those who identify as 'White Brothers' are sometimes quite dualistic and false. I have explored this at some length and you can find my writing about it here:www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/plebe/liber-nigris.html
I'm happy to elaborate on any of this in this thread and will contribute to ongoing discussions about Black Brothers (from Crowleyan or the post-Crowleyan ideological premises). I noticed that a good number of those who i have encountered amongst those who identify with Thelema are what i would call 'Old AEon' (in my sense) in their approach: one bolstering antiquated notions of morality and simplistic evaluation, unused to LHP modalities and antinomian standards of mysticism.
"What do you think about Lilith?
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I am inclined to be cautious of demons and have an abiding respect for goddesses by whom women find empowerment. I have known priestesses of Lilith somewhat closely, but generally do not have a relationship with that goddess."Do you think there is Kali in Lilith and Lilith in Kali?"
I haven't noticed that, no. would you mind elaborating? I'd love to hear more. -
@frater aSP said
"...comment more on your relationship to your guru/wife - particularly how you were able to navigate the line between your mental projection/romantic attachment and the actual spiritual partnership that came about (or whether you'd already dealt with the "ordeal of the siren" previously)."
if i get your question correctly, the manner by which i navigated that line was being previously married, then transitioning to open relationships required and focussing on what is called 'co-counselling' under instruction by my previous partner and Abyss/Abbess. that period of my life which might be compared with grabbing the tail of a moving snake or tiger and holding on with my vows and ideals in mind, notions of projections and attachments were pretty thoroughly purged, aside from quite intentional ones integrated to rite and practice with catherine during our symbolic engagement and marriage."Also, having not been initiated into an actual tantric cult, what are some of the resources (other than allowing nature herself to teach and initiate you) that have given inspiration in defining your path, dealing with kundalini, etc? Particular books? (I've personally been hugely inspired by the Aghora trilogy by Robert Svoboda)"
Kali has been the primary source for my neo-tantra, supplemented and refined by my guru. I read a number of books whose authors i little remember at this point, particularly ones relating to traditional lineages (philosophy/religion, Hindu/Buddhist, a bunch of Tibetan Tantrics and some classics, Woodruff, Agenanda? I forget). Neo-tantrics by my understanding were a probably greater number and included Moffett, Rashneesh, Anand, Noyes, Hesse, instruction from dakinis, priestesses of various goddesses, kalidasas (these latter both in correspondence and most especially in person), and readings of many mystics from conventional religion whose material crossed over into Neo-tantra by my understanding such as Ramakrishna, St. Teresa of Avila, Thomas Merton, and a variety of occultists whose notions of their practice was conducive to my purpose. I was profoundly inspired by bhakti devotees of Krishna and readings from sources like Kinsley, practices with and writings by Neopagans devoted to a goddess, and much later, by art and writing such as that like Mookerji (graphics) and McDaniel (Shaktiist text, wow!)."It seems this lifestyle, particularly the magical and sexual aspects, has a lot to do with making tamasic emotions rajasic and living them out as consciously as possible."
while i am a monolinguist (English), do NOT tend to use Indian terms for things or even find correlates to many of the subtle energies or cosmological notions espoused by yogis or tantrics of any type, i do think i know to what you refer and agree very strongly. embracing, weaving, the diverse strands of life is what Kali informs me are essential to our tantric process. I have been so long out of comparisons i barely even recall what those other streams include. while Kali assures me that my reflections are accurate, in accord with my guru's comparable karezzic current, i no longer have any idea how strongly or where. I've at times tried to become aware of tantra across the board and assimilated some of that at a distance, but based in one language and accepting varying restraints that keep me in one place and avoiding great expense, i am aware of my severe ignorance of tantra at large."However, I would think Kali herself, as an entity abiding above the Abyss, would have issues with your use of the technical term Black Brother, other than for its antinomian connotations"
tell me more! is She above the Abyss? I'm unsure of that, and never got from Her any discomfort from Her on the matter of my Embrace of the Abysmal One. probably it relates to the antinomian aspects and my Satanic-Thelemic alliances (social, religious, esoteric) that it is most appropos vis a vis Black Brotherhood. See Liber Nigris."to me your path seems like Kali's gonna take you all the way, haha."
I've been told similar things from others, though by few who knew me well. those i've heard that from usually have a very different attitude about the world and the Dark Side of things."...what role, if any, does Qabalah play in your current practices?"
I've tried to assimilate a good portion of both conventional (Hermetic) and demonologic (Grantean+) Qabalah in particular as it seemed to apply to my ritual and symbolist activities and my 'career' as a monk/occultist. these were inferred or projected based on pattern-matching in comparison to convention or the writings of others - a good number of recommendations i received about Qliphotic / Typhonian parallels before i began exploring that in earnest and seeing where it might lead; demonology and Satanism actually came later for me as a response to local social movements. previous to and as part of this i have developed a focussed interest on Tarot, English / Romanized Gematria, constructed a Tree of Life suited to this novelty-Tarot, and constructed rudimentary rites and visualizations during my own development which i may use later in greater concentration. the bulk of that, however, has been applied within or finding manifestation in the ordinary world with my guru, with whom i have established a rapport. her eshewal of rite and symbolism to minimums makes our tryst fairly easy and her focus on the material makes both development and evaluation pretty clear in an immediate sense - something about Neo-Tantra which i enjoy (no dividing out the world from my process).see above for the URL to Liber Nigris for more on that Qabalah stuff based on my own interests, or explore this directory:
www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/plebe
I am I!
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I am I!
@Uni_Verse said
"
@frater aSP said
"However, I would think Kali herself, as an entity abiding above the Abyss, would have issues with your use of the technical term Black Brother, other than for its antinomian connotations - to me your path seems like Kali's gonna take you all the way, haha."
I received the same impression...Perhaps I am missing something, as you speak of surrender and the rendering of devotional service."
in comportment with the transgressive and as an adversary to the notions of ego-death/dissolution as a facet of development, being smitten with Dakini i understand to reside in the Midst, and content to abandon routes taking me away from 'contaminants', it is possible that the associations i encountered prior amongst the Thelemic no longer are pervasive. surely the use of it as an epithet was completely disgusting to me, and i found within contemplation of its analysis by the Master in such text as Liber Aleph inspiring - not to avoid it but as an attractive and necessary avenue into the Deep. having been so long out of touch with so much of this (reformatted by my guru) i may be completely misremembering the whole, however, so cut me some slack."The blackness of thy mantle a reflection of swirling primal fears?"
not by my estimation or observation, more the grimy grist of 'dangerous black matter' reviewed as 'karmic mass-inducement' by my New Age instructors of old - a conditioning i found helpful later in appreciating the Pure Fluffy Goodness of Neo-tantra's Rainbow Side."Or, the obfuscation of the senses, a veil upon the object of worship?"
there is THAT! Kali is wholly and utterly Black, a Maw of Ma, Kaos and Maelstrom."It begs the question, in my opinion, of why you have elected not to cross."
I found Nothing to get over. I had to reconstruct the whole of the mapping to reflect it properly. here, let me show you what i mean:www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/graphics/tarotreektys.gif
"You only loose what was never yours to begin with..."
I gave Everything up upon dedication to Kali. having nothing to lose or loose, and nothing to gain, you'd have to explain the value of continued movement."Anyway, I welcome you to the forum and look forward to our interaction."
very kind of you and thank you much."Never payed much attention to your avatar, looks as if he is munching on some psychedelic honey! Regardless, I like it
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a wonderful interpretation and quite accurate.Invoke me under my stars! Love is the law, love under will.
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since Wikipedia has been in my recent awareness, what with once more evaluating its cabals of obfuscators opposed to esoterics (in this case those deleting Neopagans), i decided to visit the 'Tantra' page there and see if i might be able to identify some of the elements which i markedly embrace or diverge from in style or idea, for fun. I love to absorb diverse beliefs or presentations from numerous perspectives and this is one way of so doing.
the first thing standing out is the following: Anthony Tribe's definitive qualities have some overlap (and i have certainly engaged my share of mandalas, mantras and worship in a more conventional sense prior to this period) in the following items, as it currently applies: ...worship of deities; transgressive/antinomian acts; revaluation of the body; revaluation of the status and role of women; analogical thinking...; and revaluation of 'negative' mental states. a number of these my guru was already set on also, and some of the others in Tribe's list i've familiarity with (at this point i need to explain a very strong draw for me of Buddhism and springing off the wide open methodology of Nagarjuna, founder of the Madhyamika, the bulk of Buddhists i've encountered couldn't accept my willingness to fully embrace gods as a 'skillful means' of coming to wakefulness in the present moment; my guru falls asleep to mention of Buddhism, which i think is hilarious, while i adore it in all its forms).
secondly, it was meaningful to me, and Kali has repeatedly emphasized this for me: the etymological or usage connection between the term 'tantra' and the loom. this is indicated by the Wikipedia page not only with specific mentions from earliest Rg Veda times but also as it situates and emphasizes the work and genius of women. this bhakti-orientation i have engaged is at times completely at cross-purposes with some of the non-dualist interests who remark upon 'overcoming dualism' or 'becoming a god'. not only do i not (and feel that i never, ever, want) to "achieve" that, it is inimical to my main directives. this apparent tension (some find) between weaving of the poles and never seeking to weave myself or my God together in some fashion is in part why i identify it with Vamamarg and, moreso, with being a Black Brother.
with this statement i find strong agreement: "it is challenging and problematic to describe tantric practices definitively." it is my understanding its extensive age and divergence of culture and instructors have taken it in very different directions. with the development of neo-tantra, at points at a remove from its culture of origin, this becomes even more complicated to assess.
with this statement i find strong disagrement: "Tantra, as a development of early Hindu-Vedic thought, embraced the Hindu gods and goddesses, especially Shiva and Shakti, along with the Advaita philosophy that each represents an aspect of the ultimate Para Brahman, or Adi Parashakti." this notion of an "ultimate", while attractive to me at earlier periods of my life, particularly when dedicatedly engaging meditation and contemplation, completely dropped away in favour of Taoist and Tantric alternatives without such dualistic implications (being polar or process-oriented; consider Whitehead and some comparable Indians or Chinese). in combination with Tree of Life symbolism and the 'trajectory of the Hermetic 'mage' in relation thereto, it may be easier to see why i would not only abandon 'Crossing the Abyss' (having a different experience of the adventure) but also have no interest in uniting with my Holy Guardian Angel into some kind of subsumed reconciliation. this never really appealed to me and struck me as a way to avoid the challenges of gooey life (along the lines of asceticism as compared to embracing a Middle Path).
I strongly resonate with this description: "These deities may be worshipped externally with flowers, incense, and other offerings, such as singing and dancing." as this becomes combined with guru worship, then every service is also an engagement of worship. with the concentration of the God as guru her desires as a human being shape or mould the proper course of the devotional repertoire.
thus with respect to this description:"These deities are engaged internally as attributes of Ishta Devata meditations, the practitioners either visualizing themselves as the deity, or experiencing the darshan (the vision) of the deity." it is less a focus for me of visuals, though it has taken on this form, as audible engagements, which i regularly have with Kali (and now intermittently with Satan). I do not visualize myself as the deity though i would have no problems with this being done.
I would NOT say that this applies to me or to my guru: "In Hindu Tantra practices when bringing together the deity and the devotee, they use both meditation and ritual practices. These practices are divided into three classes of devotees: the animal, heroic, and the divine. In the divine devotee, the rituals are internal. The divine devotee is the only one that can attain the object of the rituals, which are directed to awakening kundalini energy." and in fact kundalini or specific bodily or special energies are not the focus of our activities or aims. I have at times felt as if i could confirm subtle energy center descriptions of chakras and the like, but these never became a repeated meditative focus or resolve, and Kali never suggested that they should. Her, and guru's focus has been more general, attending to the general fabric of life and experience.
while integrating what is said about 'sensate inclusions' (my guru did so long before she met me), i would not say that this accurately characterizes my/our view of sexuality's role with respect to our symbolic rite and union: "For many practicing lineages, these maithuna practices progressed into psychological symbolism." in fact i would say that the term 'progressed' is precisely the opposite of the term that i would use ('regressed' or 'devolved') based on my familiarity with the LHP. also, i cannot confirm that our interests are 'liberation' as described here, and we do not 'eschew frictional orgasm for a higher form of ecstasy.' while these kinds of ascetic actions are not unfamiliar to each of us, the artificiality and transcendental aspects of these were recognized and bypassed for other aims and foci during studies and practices prior to meeting.
also in accord within this page is "Tantra has no single coherent doctrine." my guru and i have main tendencies and interests in common, but some very important differences of philosophic attitude and cosmological supposition. these aren't ultimately required to reconcile and the divergence can at times be very exciting or alarming. commentary following, that "These practices, in their classical form, are more oriented to the married householder than the monastic or solitary renunciant. They exhibited what may be called a world-embracing rather than a world-denying character." seems exactly a fit description for our eclectic and mutually devoted action, and while i can appreciate that "Tantra, especially in its nondual forms, rejected the renunciant values of Patañjalian yoga, offering instead a vision of the whole of reality as the self-expression of a single, free and blissful Divine Consciousness under whatever name, whether Śiva or Buddha-nature." our dual-polar Neo-shaktiist modality neither accepts a cosmic 'One' nor accepts strict renunciation. I forget which bhakti writer/instructor/master (Vivekananda?) wrote that we do NOT want to 'become sugar', but to go on and on and on tasting.
it's tempting to evaluate this as an 'Abysmal' pre-unitive state of yogic achievement, but like trying to put cultures or religions on spectrums of 'advancement', i think too much error is introduced when so doing.that's enough for now. more conversation/comparison commentary welcomed!!!
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Hey nigris - First of all, I'm highly appreciative of your taking the time to write all of these explanations of your practice and mode of thinking. I'm not well enough versed in the symbolism to engage in a hardcore Thelemic conversation with you, but let me offer a couple of thoughts from a syncretic point of view.
I was talking about Kali residing above the abyss based on comments posted in various threads here equating her with Binah, which is why I thought she'd want to get you above the Abyss to be with her, haha.
In studying the phenomenon of the KCHGA and living out various phases leading up to it, I'm thinking that a lot of what you're talking about is in essence the same as the so-called right hand path and that the difference is merely a matter of terminology - it seems that regardless of the content that you and Kali weave in Yetzirah and Assiah, whether you see it as selecting one path over another, celebrating earthly life, whatever, it's still going to lead to the experience labelled by some as the KCHGA.
The reason for this is that the phenomenon itself is beyond content. The purest description I've found of it, almost stripped of religious symbolism entirely, has been in Theravada Buddhist insight meditation. You note a certain amount of sensations, whether it be sitting, doing the dishes, or a totally unhinged orgiastic sexcapade between five invoked godforms, and, bam, the nature of reality is revealed to you in a singularity. It's almost like a video game - the sensations speed up or slow down in a cyclical way (kundalini activity alternated with dark nights of the soul), and on top of this process your awareness of other planes, the details of your life and thought, magick, mysticism, whatever, grows and gets directed into your path.
So what I'm trying to formulate is that the KCHGA at its core is a dispassionate, matter of fact event much like the flowing of a river or swinging of a pendulum. We can weave whatever meaning we want into it (even saying we want to explicitly avoid it), but it's an inevitability just through the nature of who we are as a species. Since it's beyond content (happening in Briah), any content whatsoever (Yetzirah) will play a part in leading to it.
Hope at least a little of that made sense. It's difficult to express this stuff rationally, and I'm hoping someone more experienced than me will chime in and correct whatever misconceptions are in my thinking.
Check out the work of Alan Chapman, Duncan Barford, and Daniel Ingram for more on this.
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Checked out catherine's site - very cool resource, thanks for sharing!
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Frater aSP,
@frater aSP said
"...I'm highly appreciative of your taking the time to write all of these explanations of your practice and mode of thinking. ..."
likewise, i greatly appreciate your time and feedback here."I was talking about Kali residing above the abyss based on comments posted in various threads here equating her with Binah, which is why I thought she'd want to get you above the Abyss to be with her, haha."
OH! ok, that makes some sense. I've heard Her associated with Geburah more often (i think it was the Martial aspect, Goddess of the Sword, Goddess of Destruction, Disease, other things), though as a Mother Goddess (a relation i barely engage personally since we are mates, i let it inform my relation to my terrestrial mother surely), i can see Binah as a very reasonable selection, yes."In studying the phenomenon of the KCHGA and living out various phases leading up to it, I'm thinking that a lot of what you're talking about is in essence the same as the so-called right hand path and that the difference is merely a matter of terminology - it seems that regardless of the content that you and Kali weave in Yetzirah and Assiah, whether you see it as selecting one path over another, celebrating earthly life, whatever, it's still going to lead to the experience labelled by some as the KCHGA."
fascinating. where do you conceive that this (K&CofHGA) 'takes place'? as a literalist and Neo-tantric i'd kinda interpreted that knowledge had varying forms including congress, sexual tryst, or heiros gamos, and that conversation might be direct and audible. I'd love to learn how you understand this differently."The reason for this is that the phenomenon itself is beyond content. The purest description I've found of it, almost stripped of religious symbolism entirely, has been in Theravada Buddhist insight meditation. You note a certain amount of sensations, whether it be sitting, doing the dishes, or a totally unhinged orgiastic sexcapade between five invoked godforms, and, bam, the nature of reality is revealed to you in a singularity."
I think that i get what you mean, yes. you're talking about a transformative and demarcating, unique or peak moment. I've had those before, but am completely unsure if any of them apply. a few of them had definitely included Kali. whether one accepts those mediated by allies (e.g. psychotropics would also complicate matters of evaluation -- crying in bliss for hours singing and chanting with Kali for example). what should be the aftermath of such an event, do you think?"It's almost like a video game - the sensations speed up or slow down in a cyclical way (kundalini activity alternated with dark nights of the soul), and on top of this process your awareness of other planes, the details of your life and thought, magick, mysticism, whatever, grows and gets directed into your path."
how totally cool is that. it sounds very unifying and orienting. nice."So what I'm trying to formulate is that the KCHGA at its core is a dispassionate, matter of fact event much like the flowing of a river or swinging of a pendulum."
very interesting!"We can weave whatever meaning we want into it (even saying we want to explicitly avoid it), but it's an inevitability just through the nature of who we are as a species. Since it's beyond content (happening in Briah), any content whatsoever (Yetzirah) will play a part in leading to it."
very keen! I may be able to follow you and have some questions. does 'beyond content' mean it compares with meditative stasis or a kind of 'conscousness lock' where no memory takes place due to some ecstatic presence in the moment? is it your conception that this lasts from thence forward, or is it a peak and then drop-back?and of course: have you ever experienced this? how many have you spoken with who attested to having had the experience and knowing it related to what you associate it to?
"Hope at least a little of that made sense. It's difficult to express this stuff rationally, and I'm hoping someone more experienced than me will chime in and correct whatever misconceptions are in my thinking...."
thank you very much for your pointers. I'll look into your referrals (Chapman, Barford, and Ingram; none i'd heard of!) and appreciate anything more you'd care to say about your understanding.kind regards and E666,
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@nigris said
"having been so long out of touch with so much of this (reformatted by my guru) i may be completely misremembering the whole, however, so cut me some slack."
Considering your goals and aspirations, it is only natural that you lack a certain amount of understanding.
@nigris said
"there is THAT! Kali is wholly and utterly Black, a Maw of Ma, Kaos and Maelstrom."
There is your that
Here is my that
@nigris said
"I found Nothing to get over. I had to reconstruct the whole of the mapping to reflect it properly. here, let me show you what i mean:
www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/gra ... eektys.gif"
An intriguing image.
If you found Nothing, I think you might be over!@nigris said
"I gave Everything up upon dedication to Kali. having nothing to lose or loose, and nothing to gain, you'd have to explain the value of continued movement."
From my perspective, if what yo say is true, there would be no choice-
Movement the natural result of having no entanglement ( ie , nothing to lose or loose )@nigris said
"this apparent tension (some find) between weaving of the poles and never seeking to weave myself or my God together in some fashion is in part why i identify it with Vamamarg and, moreso, with being a Black Brother."
This helps put things in perspective.
I will do some understanding for the both of usI have been receiving a lot of inspiration from the Krishna movement.
Though my preference is for my Supreme Personality of the UnManifest ! -
@Uni_Verse said
"...if what yo say is true, there would be no choice -
Movement the natural result of having no entanglement ( ie , nothing to lose or loose )"
hm, unsure what to make of that."This helps put things in perspective. I will do some understanding for the both of us
"
cool!"I have been receiving a lot of inspiration from the Krishna movement.
Though my preference is for my Supreme Personality of the UnManifest !"
excellent. inspiration is a wonderful result. -
@nigris said
"fascinating. where do you conceive that this (K&CofHGA) 'takes place'? as a literalist and Neo-tantric i'd kinda interpreted that knowledge had varying forms including congress, sexual tryst, or heiros gamos, and that conversation might be direct and audible. I'd love to learn how you understand this differently."
Oh unquestionably, and I've experienced much of the above as well. What I meant is that all of this is weaving with and tying into a very simple process of becoming conscious of the speed of individual moments - the raw material that comprises our consciousness. When it moves quickly (and we're watching it) - that's what brings K openings and peak experiences - as well as our ability to create our lives by directing the formulation of the raw material into astral thoughtforms, external events, etc. When it moves slowly, that's when we're in the Dark Night of the Soul - we can't perceive the individual moments and have a tendency to be sucked in unconsciously to our karma.
To me the outward manifestations of the HGA - the voices, the sexual congress, the synchronicities, visions, internal alchemy etc. are this abstract, universal process's way of communicating with our egos/bodies. When the event itself happens, the actual content leading up to it, especially for someone on the tantric or hermetic path would assuredly take on those forms.
As far as I know I haven't achieved the KCHGA, but can abstract a (rough, intellectualized) idea of its nature having experienced the ups and downs of the insight cycle (you might turn to someone who has achieved it to talk about the aftermath, etc. Check out "The Magical Record of Brother Proserpinus" in Black Pearl Vol. 1 No. 6). It's something that even a Zen Buddhist would experience, although they would explain it in different terms (perhaps kensho?) That's why I have a feeling that your working with Satan, etc. isn't becoming a Black Brother, but rather the guise that your HGA has taken on. The only difference is the symbolism. (Obviously this is presumptuous and I don't want to speak for you...)
I think the main thing that might be helpful to take away from this is a separation of one's experience of reality into various components. Magick, visions, tantra - the Yetzirac content of our lives - would be akin to Buddhist training in concentration (the jhanas, etc. - a rough, probably wrongheaded and culturally insensitive comparison I know...), while the engine that's powering it, breaking us open bit by bit, is insight practice - the HGA - an incomprehensible, contentless entity guiding and manifesting those comprehensible forms.
It's always been helpful for me in that when I get stalled somehow in my life either externally or spiritually (not that there is much of a boundary any more), I can enter into insight meditation - the most basic practice imagineable - and watch how fast individual sensations are progressing. More often than not I'll find myself buried in content, with the moments progressing at a snail's pace - the Dark Night of the Soul phase. Many times all it will take is sitting through a few more cycles to get back on track. (If you look at Daniel Ingram's site at interactivebuddha.com, he actually has a chart with approximations of the speed of sensations at each step of the cycle). As the outward notion of the HGA has developed in my life, insight practice has taken on more and more of a bhaktic nature. The sensations are the internal lover and the process's relationship to kundalini and sex (even sex magick) becomes clearer and clearer cue porn music.