Secret Chiefs and attainment
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@Frater Horus said
"is it considered possible to become a Secret Chief?"
Well, They have to come from somewhere, don't They?
"And what is their "power"(or position in the tree)? More than Magus? Ipsissimus?"
Supposedly one has to be at least a Magus to be able to be considered a Secret Chief.
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@Nui said
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Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt.
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But whoso availeth in this, let him be the chief of all! "
Secret, for He makes no difference between one thing and any other.
Chief as He leads all to joy, such being His joy. -
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@Frater Horus said
"I was wondering how is supposed to be related general attainment to communication with the Secret Chiefs. If there's a step where it is likely? Strong? Is there union with them?"
You can't communicate with the Secret Chiefs because there aren't any. You can, however, pretend that you're communicating with them.
"Also, is it considered possible to become a Secret Chief?"
It's possible to pretend that you're one.
"And what is their "power"(or position in the tree)? More than Magus? Ipsissimus?"
You'll have to consult the Monstrous Compendium A.'.A.'. supplement to get their stats. But since they have more hit dice than Orcus and Demogorgon put together, I would only use them in high-level campaigns.
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But there is common sense data that we can let guide us in place of this nonsense about the supernals, right?
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@Los said
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@Frater Horus said
"I was wondering how is supposed to be related general attainment to communication with the Secret Chiefs. If there's a step where it is likely? Strong? Is there union with them?"You can't communicate with the Secret Chiefs because there aren't any. You can, however, pretend that you're communicating with them.
"Also, is it considered possible to become a Secret Chief?"
It's possible to pretend that you're one.
"And what is their "power"(or position in the tree)? More than Magus? Ipsissimus?"
You'll have to consult the Monstrous Compendium A.'.A.'. supplement to get their stats. But since they have more hit dice than Orcus and Demogorgon put together, I would only use them in high-level campaigns."
As an objective seeker i may include this possibility: what if video games are real?
You think you're killing pixels whereas you're killing actual people by playing Battlefield.
You assemble real physical blocks in another dimension by playing Tetris...
A fictionary character could come out from the screen and shoot you physically if you believe too much it is not possible at all.
Or you could be swallowed by the screen, and end up in the olympics or something
Maybe better not to be sure just in case.
Dont you think it's pure logic?
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Curious about Mr. Eshelman's position on this, too.
The way I understand it the highest triad of AA grades are evolutionary agents for the whole of mankind.
Masters of the Temple can found organisations like the AA.
Magi initiate a whole planet, kickstarting new 2000-year-paradigms or supporting or facilitating those paradigms if they are not the kickstarter.
Ipsissimi swear an oath "to retreat into their human person and stay silent about this attainment".So, the grade of Ipsissimus is the most senior grade formulated (a chief) and secret too.
The Secret Chiefs are, in the AA measuring scale, of the grade of Ipisissimus. They initiate those who found things like the AA and initiate whole planets.
And Los: These people are out there. But you won't find them if you are not looking.
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@Simon Iff said
"Curious about Mr. Eshelman's position on this, too.
The way I understand it the highest triad of AA grades are evolutionary agents for the whole of mankind.
Masters of the Temple can found organisations like the AA.
Magi initiate a whole planet, kickstarting new 2000-year-paradigms or supporting or facilitating those paradigms if they are not the kickstarter.
Ipsissimi swear an oath "to retreat into their human person and stay silent about this attainment".So, the grade of Ipsissimus is the most senior grade formulated (a chief) and secret too.
The Secret Chiefs are, in the AA measuring scale, of the grade of Ipisissimus. They initiate those who found things like the AA and initiate whole planets.
And Los: These people are out there. But you won't find them if you are not looking."
Nice...
How do you understand "retreat into their human person"? doesnt it sound contradictory to the atainment itself?! what is supposed to happen doin so?
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@Frater Horus said
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@Avshalom Binyamin said
"But there is common sense data that we can let guide us in place of this nonsense about the supernals, right?"Let who "guide" us? HGA?
Why "nonsense"?"
It was a tongue in cheek comment about denying the supernals, and making a false crown out of Da'ath.
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@danica said
"http://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_09.html"
Re-reading that, I have nothing to add. Including to Los: You'll find your answer to the question you asked me in there.
Also, the secrecy of the Ipsissimus grade, plus what Crowley has to say about OIVZ in there, plus your (Los') discussion about the contradiction between OIVZ being his HGA and a sumerian man, resolves the contradiction, does it not.
Regards
Simon
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@Simon Iff said
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@danica said
"http://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_09.html"Re-reading that, I have nothing to add. Including to Los: You'll find your answer to the question you asked me in there.
Also, the secrecy of the Ipsissimus grade, plus what Crowley has to say about OIVZ in there, plus your (Los') discussion about the contradiction between OIVZ being his HGA and a sumerian man, resolves the contradiction, does it not.
Regards
Simon"
I'm quite sure that Los will merely point out that this is part of the 33 or 50 percent of "it" Crowley got wrong. It's the simplest argument.
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@Simon Iff said
"Re-reading that, I have nothing to add. Including to Los: You'll find your answer to the question you asked me in there."
No, I won't. I asked you what convinced you that the so-called "Secret Chiefs" actually exist. I can't learn what convinced you from reading what Crowley had to say. Now sure, maybe Crowley was convinced by something that also convinced you, or maybe it was reading Crowley itself that convinced you, but I can't learn that just by reading Crowley. You have to tell me if you want me to know.
Just to be super clear, I suspect that you've been convinced for really crappy reasons, but I'm willing to change my mind. Of course, I can't change my mind if you won't answer me, which of course you haven't done so far.
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@Takamba said
"I'm quite sure that Los will merely point out that this is part of the 33 or 50 percent of "it" Crowley got wrong. It's the simplest argument."
Assuming that you're referring to Crowley's ramblings about invisible magic men guiding him, the optimist in me holds out the possibility that he was just deliberately making up those stories to flatter his own vanity and to impress the supremely gullible. 'Course, it's always possible that he was just simply wrong and not consciously faking. Or perhaps he was "losing it" at the end of his life.
I think it's unlikely we'll ever know for sure, but we can be reasonably sure that invisible goblins aren't directing the events of the world, allowing "Frater Superiors" to discover annotated books at just the right time, or delivering daydreams (oh, excuse me, "communications") that appoint people grand poobahs of the Elk Lodge.
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@Los said
"Assuming that you're referring to Crowley's ramblings about invisible magic men guiding him, the optimist in me holds out the possibility that he was just deliberately making up those stories to flatter his own vanity and to impress the supremely gullible. 'Course, it's always possible that he was just simply wrong and not consciously faking. Or perhaps he was "losing it" at the end of his life.
I think it's unlikely we'll ever know for sure, but we can be reasonably sure that invisible goblins aren't directing the events of the world, allowing "Frater Superiors" to discover annotated books at just the right time, or delivering daydreams (oh, excuse me, "communications") that appoint people grand poobahs of the Elk Lodge."
LOL @ LOS
False, deluded, wrong, mistaken.
Simply put, "he got it wrong."
Thought so. Simple enough. Answers every thing.
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@Los said
"Assuming that you're referring to Crowley's ramblings about invisible magic men guiding him, the optimist in me holds out the possibility that he was just deliberately making up those stories to flatter his own vanity and to impress the supremely gullible. 'Course, it's always possible that he was just simply wrong and not consciously faking. Or perhaps he was "losing it" at the end of his life."
Why do you feel the need to be optimistic?
You should open your self up, stop assuming or hoping -
Allow the Universe to speak to you.
Its Word is more powerful than childish theories and dreams.@Takamba said
"LOL @ LOSFalse, deluded, wrong, mistaken.Simply put, "he got it wrong."Thought so. Simple enough. Answers every thing."
I do not think his reply was that simple.