"Downwards" initiation?
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
Ha ! Super answer. That's a quote i've been trying to find for weeks. It answers for many topics. Golden quote.
I think you're right concerning "the vile parts of the psyche".
Althought i didnt mean exactly such things by "downwards". But it can be seen in many ways. We could also imagine a "classic" system, GD/AA style, with the difference the sephiroth worked begins from Kether and go one by one downwards to Malkuth. Neophytus would be Kether, Ipsissimus woukd be Malkuth. What about this one?
I see many potentialy interesting things with such a modification.
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
Frater Achad spoke a lot about turning the Tree upside down.
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
@P is for Pomegranate said
"
@Archaeus said
"and look where it got him"Kinda my point
"Thought it might have been, and the episode brings to mind Crowley's comments on the subject; that in seeking to turn the tree on it's head he simply demonstrated that he had never understood its true meaning.
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
A useful meditation for an Ippissimus, perhaps. Beforehand, seemingly prone to provoke unbalance, too soon and out of perspective.
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
@Archaeus said
"
@P is for Pomegranate said
"
@Archaeus said
"and look where it got him"Kinda my point
"Thought it might have been, and the episode brings to mind Crowley's comments on the subject; that in seeking to turn the tree on it's head he simply demonstrated that he had never understood its true meaning."
That seems again another different thing... an inverted tree, so we still go upwards? Achad had even weirder ideas than me probably. Nice to read the Crowley comentary.
What i really mean gets clearer though: it's a kind of perspective where you consider you're already in Kether. Like that school of Yoga which say basically "there is no way", "everything has already happened" you see? So you're there, Ipsissimus, and the "way" is illusion from the start, but you do it anyway as it has to be done(?). When you do it, as you're already at the highest, you can only go down.
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
@Archaeus said
"*I reveal unto you a great mystery. Ye stand between the abyss of height and the abyss of depth.
In either awaits you a Companion; and that Companion is Yourself.
Ye can have no other Companion.
Many have arisen, being wise. They have said «Seek out the glittering Image in the place ever golden, and unite yourselves with It.»
Many have arisen, being foolish. They have said, «Stoop down unto the darkly splendid world, and be wedded to that Blind Creature of the Slime.»
I who am beyond Wisdom and Folly, arise and say unto you: achieve both weddings! Unite yourselves with both!
Beware, beware, I say, lest ye seek after the one and lose the other!
My adepts stand upright; their head above the heavens, their feet below the hells.
But since one is naturally attracted to the Angel, another to the Demon, let the first strengthen the lower link, the last attach more firmly to the higher. * Liber Tzaddi 33-41
"Could we say as wedding with HGA occurs with briatic consciousness, wedding with the Demon occurs with yetziratic consciousness? Or is demonic wedding supposed to increase in intensity up to Adepthood?
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
The demon is also the hga
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
@Frater Horus said
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@Avshalom Binyamin said
"The demon is also the hga"You mean the "good" one(kakodemonos-kalodemonos?), or/and the shadow HGA produces?"
I mean that mincing the hga into bits and pieces only limits it.
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Are there known cases of some kind of "downward" initiations? What could you say about such cases? Let me explain what i mean by that if you will:
"Downwards" in a sense where instead of begining the work using mostly the vile parts of the psyche and doing the classic alchemical transmutation to rise progressively up the planes, the initiate starts as, how to phrase it... lets say as a "trapped between two worlds" Magus(or Adept) who needs to learn to "land" to earth and materialise all his "super powers".
How such cases could be related to reincarnation? Why could possibly a man be assigned such an ordeal as performing a "downwards" initiation?
What if a subtle being incarnates itself? Wouldnt it perform such kind of initiation?
Writing this it makes me think about the 2=9 meditation where you breath in and out... life and death=upwards and downwards=breathing. Never ending cycle.
A voice says "both at the same time"...
Or maybe this corresponds best to the childhood of reincarnated adepts? Because they do such a downwards initiation until at adulthood they fully continue from where they left last time right?
@Avshalom Binyamin said
"
@Frater Horus said
"
@Avshalom Binyamin said
"The demon is also the hga"You mean the "good" one(kakodemonos-kalodemonos?), or/and the shadow HGA produces?"
I mean that mincing the hga into bits and pieces only limits it."
Agreed, not to mention a waste of time, it's far better to experience it than argue about it.
