Franz Bardon's magick and method
-
@Frater 639 said
"
@Archaeus said
"
@axismundi said
"I was getting the impression from Frater 639's post that electric and magnetic fluid work is taught early in A.A which as I say surprises me."I think he means that energy work is covered early in AA training, which it is, and that Bardons work covers much the same ground. However I don't think Bardons work is specifically used in AA, although this might vary between lineages. I'd never heard of Bardon before reading this thread and the energy work I did and am still doing didn't come from his books."
Right -- that's closer to what I'm saying. No, Bardon's methods aren't used formally -- but again, I don't consider them Bardon's methods. I think he borrowed as much as Crowley did. Although, I think Crowley was much better at weeding out the bullshit.
Also, much of the personal Work isn't laid out as formal A.'.A.'. methods as one moves through the grades. It is interesting how one begins to Understand the methods and ideas that become useful. The paradigms all begin to blend together, which helps one to see the crossover through the different systems."
I couldn't agree more, much of my own work has involved things that on the surface are nothing to do with the Formal AA system but have served to get me where I needed to be with regards to achieving the tasks of the Grades that I have so far completed. I have found that the official syllabus provides a framework on which to base my study and practice but the actual work involves a whole lot more and is extremely personal.
I guess in a nutshell I'd say that although the requirements for each grade are set in stone, how you achieve success is very much an individual thing. If this wasn't the case then we'd be simply parroting what Crowley taught and fossilizing the system.
-
@Archaeus said
"I couldn't agree more, much of my own work has involved things that on the surface are nothing to do with the Formal AA system but have served to get me where I needed to be with regards to achieving the tasks of the Grades that I have so far completed. I have found that the official syllabus provides a framework on which to base my study and practice but the actual work involves a whole lot more and is extremely personal.
I guess in a nutshell I'd say that although the requirements for each grade are set in stone, how you achieve success is very much an individual thing. If this wasn't the case then we'd be simply parroting what Crowley taught and fossilizing the system."
Echoes of my heart as well. 93 93/93
-
@Archaeus said
"I guess in a nutshell I'd say that although the requirements for each grade are set in stone, how you achieve success is very much an individual thing. If this wasn't the case then we'd be simply parroting what Crowley taught and fossilizing the system."
I think of it thus: There are certain things, basic to the stages and thresholds, that are common to all.
Then there's other work, which is individual to each person and is "whatever the heck they do" while going through dealing with the other stuff.
"the ordeals I write not"
-
@Jim Eshelman said
"
@Archaeus said
"I guess in a nutshell I'd say that although the requirements for each grade are set in stone, how you achieve success is very much an individual thing. If this wasn't the case then we'd be simply parroting what Crowley taught and fossilizing the system."I think of it thus: There are certain things, basic to the stages and thresholds, that are common to all.
Then there's other work, which is individual to each person and is "whatever the heck they do" while going through dealing with the other stuff.
"the ordeals I write not""
Succinctly put.
One analogy that springs to mind is the university model; in that the student could simply read the syllabus and do the bare minimum to scrape through, and gain the degree/grade/whatever, but studying beyond the bare minimum can only be beneficial. For instance I've recently been reading Blavatsky, which I'd avoided for years based on the sheer density of her work (And probably a bit of a prejudice against Theosophy
) But recently I find that I'm drawn to the Book of Dzyan and all that stuff, can't say I know what to make of it all as yet but I get the feeling she was onto something. -
Interesting stuff thanks for explaining I appreciate the info.
It seems to me that because this A.A. training has some degree of secrecy it is not easy for outsiders to take it into account when they (in this case me) offer an opinion or comment.
This is why Crowley and Bardon's published techniques are so valuable. Specifically with Bardon's stuff it is designed for the aspirant who does not have a teacher. However if memory serves correct Bardon suggests that being trained by an initiated practitioner is superior.
For those of us who have never had the advantage of a proper teacher the techniques published by Crowley and Bardon are invaluable.
What is the point in making responses in which secret information or training is referred to? In as far this information can only be partially revealed the purpose cannot be to properly engage with the debate. But rather to ostentatiously flourish the cloak of mystery and nothing more.
-
@axismundi said
"
What is the point in making responses in which secret information or training is referred to? In as far this information can only be partially revealed the purpose cannot be to properly engage with the debate. But rather to ostentatiously flourish the cloak of mystery and nothing more."You seem to be confusing tact with secrecy; In AA the only secrets are the initiation ceremonies which are not disclosed prior to the candidate passing through them for obvious dramatic reasons; and the identities of one's fellow Initiates, which is purely a matter of good manners and respecting others privacy.
What 'secret information' were you referring to?
The actual techniques and practices of the AA are available to anyone who wishes to search online or buy a few books on the subject, there is nothing being 'ostentatiously flourished'.
-
In A.A. stuff I have read I see no obvious mention of electric or magnetic fluid work. I mistakenly assumed therefore that it must be some kind of secret stuff.
If there is some clear material analogous to Bardons electro-magnetic fluids and volting in A.A. material that I have missed perhaps it could be pointed out to me.
If no-one bothers then I suppose I will have to do some volt work to reveal the hidden.
-
@axismundi said
"In A.A. stuff I have read I see no obvious mention of electric or magnetic fluid work. I mistakenly assumed therefore that it must be some kind of secret stuff.
If there is some clear material analogous to Bardons electro-magnetic fluids and volting in A.A. material that I have missed perhaps it could be pointed out to me.
If no-one bothers then I suppose I will have to do some volt work to reveal the hidden."
No need for volt work unless you want to. Do a simple Google search.
It is the Work and practice that will reveal it to you. Look into the Sign of Harpocrates and the Sign of Horus. Study their meanings and type of "attitude." Then practice as it suits you!
If these godforms are properly "charged" or "invoked" or "identified with" (whatever term you wish to use), they should answer your questions regarding the similarities to the magnetic/electric principles that Bardon is speaking about. Invoke often!
-
@Frater 639 said
"
No need for volt work unless you want to. Do a simple Google search.
It is the Work and practice that will reveal it to you. Look into the Sign of Harpocrates and the Sign of Horus. Study their meanings and type of "attitude." Then practice as it suits you!
If these godforms are properly "charged" or "invoked" or "identified with" (whatever term you wish to use), they should answer your questions regarding the similarities to the magnetic/electric principles that Bardon is speaking about. Invoke often!"
These two I have used in the GD vibratory formula of the middle pillar, also deity assumption/possession. The experience of these is entirely different and inferior to Bardon's Electric and Magnetic fluid work (although the deity possession was more ecstatic).
I feel there is a communication disconnect here so thank you all for your kind efforts.
-
@axismundi said
"These two I have used in the GD vibratory formula of the middle pillar. The experience of this is entirely different and inferior to Bardon's Electric and Magnetic fluid work.
I feel there is a communication disconnect here so thank you all for you kind efforts."
I appreciate your politeness. However, I have to disagree that these forms are inferior -- they work well relative to an individual's training and understanding of them.
The 0=0 signs contain aspects of the similarities between the systems, as I said earlier. If one system works for you, then stick with it and keep going!
Good luck with your Path!
-
This is a little off topic in terms of Bardon's technical work but if you haven't already, check out the book "Frabato The Magician". That is a hell of a story!
"Though cast in the form of a novel, Frabato the Magician is in fact the spiritual autobiography of Franz Bardon, one of the twentieth century's greatest Hermetic adepts. Frabato was the author's stage name during his career as a performing magician, and it is Frabato who occupies center stage in the novel as well. Set in Dresden, Germany, in the early 1930s, the story chronicles Frabato's magical battles with the members of a powerful and dangerous black lodge, his escape from Germany during the final desperate days of the Weimar Republic, and the beginning of the spiritual mission which was to culminate in Franz Bardon's classic books on Hermetic magic.
More than an occult novel, Frabato the Magician is itself a work of magic which illuminates Bardon's other books as well as providing a revealing look into the dark occult forces which lay behind the rise of the Third Reich.
Quote from:
www.amazon.com/Frabato-Magician-Franz-Bardon/dp/1885928157
" -
@kasper81 said
"dark occult forces which lay behind the rise of the Third Reich.
the only dark occult forces that lay behind the rise of the Third Reich were the engrained centuries- old racism of white Teutonic Christians, the mindlessness of the bigotry of "national pride", the engrained shame based conditioning of the Catholics of South Germany, Richard Wagner's unresolved toilet -training issues, , the entrenched hangover of Frederick's Prussian militaristic greed and the greed of the idiots on Wall Street and in the US government who allowed the international financial system to collapse
so it wasn't Loki or Thor, rising out of a creepy, etheral tomb, somewhere near Asgaard, 1000 kilometres left of Uranus, or it wasn't some sort of Atlantean "black magician" reincarnated and returning to wreak havoc and aligning with, "evil Tibetan left hand magician monks". Good fantasy reading for boys though"
There is good research showing how occultism, especially Theosophy and Aryanism were strong influences on what eventually became the National Socialist party in Germany. Also many prominent NAZI's were occultists. So whether or not you think that occultism has any actual power it is clear that Adolf Hitler and the Nazi's did; so this must have therefore to some extent informed their actions.
-
@kasper81 said
"......... "Aryanism" I don't know what that is but I suspect it is a product of mere racist belief. ...... "
So basically you couldn't even be bothered to google this and yet such bellicose opinion? You are boorish I shall ignore you.
-
@kasper81 said
"
is this your way of ignoring the fact that I just wrapped your argument up in knots? Childish? No?No, I couldn't be bothered to google Arianism because it's irrelevant, it's obviously a racist offshoot of Theosophy"
Actually, no; you did no such thing with his statements. The true Aryan culture was from Norther India and existed as the main power during India's hidden times (hidden from Europe, I mean) and the histories you might be familiar with regarding the Hindu culture. The Aryan's vanished. Linguists believe they moved north more so into Europe (caucasian, Indo-European, being the prefered labels expressing this); some fantasizers in Blavatsky's era believed they became the Atlanteans and later also vanished from there (sinking, as it were). Hitler, having political contacts with a great number of members of the Thule society (a pseudo-masonic organization also borrowing heavily from Blavatsky's "Secret Doctrine" and "Isis Unveiled," which taught of a unified religious notion she "brought" from the East and spiritual tools), joined with those men and they named themselves the Nazi party with the agenda of bringing back the glory of the Aryan race (misunderstood as it was by them) and the New World Order (Blavatsky's words) and New Age (also Blavatsky's words) for a "thousand year reign" (also Blavatsky's words).
Obviously you didn't know about that.
-
@kasper81 said
"I actually did but sdo what and big fcking deal
did you know that Aryan comes from the Indian word for "warrior"?
Nazis? Occultism? Buillsh1t. Conversation over..... for me anyway"
Yes I did and thank you for demonstrating to all in public the reason I've not been interested in your constant use of private message. There's not need for such an intellectual as yourself to get all emotional and school-yardish.
-
Derivation of the word "Aryan"[edit source | editbeta]
The English word "Aryan" is borrowed from the Sanskrit word ārya meaning 'Noble';[1] but apparently, it was initially used as a national name to designate those who worshipped the Vedic deities (especially Indra) and followed Vedic culture (e.g. performance of sacrifice, Yajna).[1][12] The Zend airya 'venerable' and Old Persian ariya are also thought to be national names.[1][13]
As a translation of Latin Ariānus for Ariāna ("the eastern part of ancient Persia"), Arian(es) has long been in English use. Aryan is of recent introduction in comparative philology.[1]
In Armenian the word ari (Armenian: արի) means brave and noble, and the word ayr (Armenian: այր) means man, which, as some scholars believe, correspond to the Graeco-Aryan theory of origin of Indo-European peoples.[14]
In colloquial English, the word has been adopted in accordance with Nazi racial theory's appropriation of the term to describe persons corresponding to the "Nordic" physical ideal of Nazi Germany (the "master race" ideology).[n 1]
In Iranian context the original self-identifier lives on in ethnic names like "Alani", "Ir".[16] Similarly, The word Iran is the Persian word for land/place of the Aryans[17](see also Iranian peoples). -
"Did you know that Led Zeppelin made a pact with Satan (?) before they were famous? The fact that they were the best session musicians in the business and knew every style of music, classical, jazz, every genre of blues, folk etc and presumably practiced hard and long daily was irrelevant. Right?"
Slander!
What is your source of this knowledge?You can´t find anything if you play that Song backwards. I know, because I´ve tried. There´s nothing there. We never made a pact with the Devil. The only deal I think we ever made was with some of the girls High Shools in San Fernando Valley
Robert Plant on Stairway to Heaven, Q magazine, 1988You either show me the exact source where this is proven, or retract you statement.