"Greater" ritual of Pentagram
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Oh, okay, so it's not Reguli, but it still uses the inverted pentagrams.
Gotcha.
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Yeah, and I thought I read Jim say something about it not being an "inverted" pentagram, but the inverted AND in.. somethinged pentagram, where left and right are inverted as well.
So that would make fire on the top left hand side.
Love is the Law,
Frank -
@Legis said
"it seems to me that using those inverted pentagrams is like asking to be dominated by the elements."
The problem is that it just "seems" that way to you.
The inverted pentagram actually represents the elements springing from spirit (or, alternatively, the elements as the "throne" of spirit). It affirms that the spirit dwells "beneath" (or, really, "behind") the elements.
"But I wouldn't say it's the kind of ritual that ...you know... promotes stability."
Says the guy who freely admits that he never performed the ritual.
"More like playing 52-Card Pickup.
Or riding a bull.
"Daily use"... lol... smh.. Not this guy."
Please. It's drawing a bunch of signs in the air and intoning a bunch of funny-sounding words. What do you think that's actually going to do, aside from making the operator look pretty damn silly?
If you're this afraid of prancing around a room and pretending to be a wizard, I'd hate to see how you react to something that actually warrants fear.
As an aside, Reguli was, at one time, part of my daily practice. It's a fine ritual, certainly nothing like the way you've been representing it on this thread. A tiny bit of experience in the things you talk about might help you see that.
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I know what my fears were going in. I know what I learned passing through the experience.
People are different. People program themselves (or have been programmed by others) with different associations and expectations.
I had my own experience with it according to my own nature and expectations. I've described it, and that was what it was.
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"And then this happened."
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@ThelemicMage said
"He writes that one should use an inverted pentagram. Does this mean a standard inverted pentagram with fire still on the right side? I remember two versions, (in reality, four versions,) of the pentagram. One set was up/down inverted, the other set right-left inverted. I forget what one would call the latter. I could swear Jim named it once, however I am unable to find it with the search function. "
I'm not sure what you mean by standard inversion -- I've only seen the one drawn in Liber V, where the elements are assigned to the same points in the averse as they are in the upright - e.g. from spirit to fire would be bottom to the upper left corner for fire (averse), top to the bottom right corner (upright) when invoking.
@Los said
"The inverted pentagram actually represents the elements springing from spirit (or, alternatively, the elements as the "throne" of spirit). It affirms that the spirit dwells "beneath" (or, really, "behind") the elements."
Spirit is an element...
The description above is vague and almost interchangable. It doesn't follow that the model presented "actually represents" anything...and frankly, it sounds a lot like bullshit.
Perhaps a more useful model would be where the magician stands when invoking these energies. A penatgram could look different as a reflection into Malkuth rather than how it actually appears "from above."
And it's probably even more useful to use a consciousness/subconsciousness model along with what is happening physiologically when performing XXV and V.
But with even more of the bullshit factor removed, how the environment and operator are responding to the ritual is extremely important - especially when using these during a general banishing/invocation preliminary for a specific working.
Building intellectual models in one's head of what the shit represents in the ritual **does not **help raise the required energized enthusiasm for the operation, which is the most important aspect of the fucking rituals. The symbols take care of themselves when the proper pitch is raised.
@Los said
"Please. It's drawing a bunch of signs in the air and intoning a bunch of funny-sounding words. What do you think that's actually going to do, aside from making the operator look pretty damn silly?"
Good point. If one believes it's all silliness, I'm sure one will find that their results coincide with their belief.
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Los do you find it interesting that Liber V is not assigned anywhere in the A.'. A .'. curriculum?
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"Good point. If one believes ****, I'm sure one will find that their results coincide with their belief."
But ye, o my people, rise up & awake!
(first ye rise, then ye wake)
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@Frater 639 said
"I'm not sure what you mean by standard inversion -- I've only seen the one drawn in Liber V, where the elements are assigned to the same points in the averse as they are in the upright - e.g. from spirit to fire would be bottom to the upper left corner for fire (averse), top to the bottom right corner (upright) when invoking."
There's a small difference between the standard inverted pentagram and the averse pentagrams used in Reguli that may have symbolic importance. The inverted pentagram is merely a flipped image of the original, almost as if one were placing a mirror along the bottom two points of an upright pentgram and looking at the reflected image.
The averse pentagrams used in Reguli have been rotated 180 degrees. They have been averted or turned away.
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@Tony DeLuce said
"Los do you find it interesting that Liber V is not assigned anywhere in the A.'. A .'. curriculum? "
That isn't true in all cases. It's usually assigned to the Zelator in my "lineage." I can't speak for all of them.
As far as the importance of the ritual, I know some believe it isn't beneficial. However, Crowley believed it to be important enough to put it in Book 4. To the ones who have questions about potency or importance, they should work with it and see for themselves - and not take anyone's teaching at face value.
@Takamba said
"(first ye rise, then ye wake)"
@Her said
"There's a small difference between the standard inverted pentagram and the averse pentagrams used in Reguli that may have symbolic importance. The inverted pentagram is merely a flipped image of the original, almost as if one were placing a mirror along the bottom two points of an upright pentgram and looking at the reflected image."
Cool. I'm not familiar with an inverted pentagram - I'm pretty sure it isn't involved in any A.'.A.'. rituals. In any event, my point is not about the symbolism - which it is all very interesting - but in what the ritual is aiming to do in regard to raising energized enthusiasm. For starters, Liber V in particular has an incredible effect if someone was busy working with the Old Aeonic symbolism for many years...
Just like if a king 50 year-old was fucking the Queen for two decades and then met a hot, young Princess.
@Crowley said
"It is therefore not quite certain in what the efficacy of conjurations really lies. The peculiar mental excitement required may even be aroused by the perception of the absurdity of the process, and the persistence in it, as when once FRATER PERDURABO (at the end of His magical resources) recited "From Greenland's Icy Mountains", and obtained His result.
It may be conceded in any case that the long strings of formidable words which roar and moan through so many conjurations have a real effect in exalting the consciousness of the magician to the proper pitch — that they should do so is no more extraordinary than music of any kind should do so. "
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Sorry I should have asked why didn't Crowley assign it as a practice in the A .'. A .'.?
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@Tony DeLuce said
"Sorry I should have asked why didn't Crowley assign it as a practice in the A .'. A .'.?
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Perhaps "assign" is the incorrect word. Some official rituals are never assigned, they are chosen for use by the Aspirant according to their own will - they are not considered Tasks proper. Liber V is given for use by the 'Magician of whatever grade:'
*an incantation proper to invoke the Energies of the Aeon of Horus, adapted for the daily use of the Magician of whatever grade. *
However, given the Work of the Grade, it's fairly easy to see why Liber V can be particularly helpful to the Zelator...“to obtain control of the foundations of my own being.”
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Thanks. I always thought of Liber V as being a perfect example of what not to do in ritual
And for a certain type of temperament this would release a great deal of energy by performing it...Also interesting that Crowley continued to use the Pentagram ritual throughout his life even after creating Liber V.
Does anyone have any evidence of Crowley actually ever performing this ritual on a regular basis?
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Some thoughts...
@Liber 66 said
" 34. I who reveal the ritual am IAO and OAI; the Right and the Averse. "
@Liber LXV said
"54. Then said Adonai: Thou hast the Head of the Hawk, and thy Phallus is the Phallus of Asar. Thou knowest the white, and thou knowest the black, and thou knowest that these are one. But why seekest thou the knowledge of their equivalence?"
My answer to why he didn't assign it (to anyone who cares) would be a guess. And it would go something along the lines of not demanding that every single student use the "averse" as part of the required assignments.
But it's there. And that experience and knowledge has its value. As I said, the experience was amazing, and I learned quite a bit from it. Personally, however, I wouldn't recommend it, and I do tend to want to warn the unwary away from it.
Yet it is there. It does work. And apparently others were either more prepared for it or less reactive to it.
Myself, I have absolutely no use or desire for "averse" pentagrams, especially daily! Except apparently at a time in the past I needed to know the New Aeon energies were worthy and powerful to overcome an intentional invocation of aversely ordered elemental energies.
Do it again? Ha! You try and make me!
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@Tony DeLuce said
"Thanks. I always thought of Liber V as being a perfect example of what not to do in ritual
And for a certain type of temperament this would release a great deal of energy by performing it..."I would say that it "invokes" the energy. What do you mean by release? If you mean removing deep-seated blocks, to be able to more readily invoke energy, I would definitely agree.
"Also interesting that Crowley continued to use the Pentagram ritual throughout his life even after creating it..
Does anyone have any evidence of Crowley actually ever performing this ritual on a regular basis?"
I continue to use it throughout my life because it works. I imagine he did the same - but there is more than just ceremonial magick in this form that can achieve the energized enthusiasm needed for results. Ceremonial magick is just one tool in the toolbox.
You can eat many things to sustain life, and you can certainly enjoy the meal, but the point isn't the meal - it's the energy that the meal provides.
There are other (arguably more direct) methods that Crowley employed that could achieve better results than a daily ceremonial invocation could provide...
<insert Jim's quote here - "Let your life be the ritual!" >
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@Legis said
" Myself, I have absolutely no use or desire for "averse" pentagrams, especially daily!"
@Comment to Liber V (excerpts) said
" The Magician should devise for himself a definite technique for destroying "evil." The essence of such a practice will consist in training the mind and the body to confront things which case fear, pain, disgust,* shame and the like. He must learn to endure them, then to become indifferent to them, then to become indifferent to them, then to analyze them until they give pleasure and instruction, and finally to appreciate them for their own sake, as aspects of Truth. When this has been done, he should abandon them, if they are really harmful in relation to health and comfort...
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This then in the virtue of the Magick of The Beast 666, and the canon of its proper usage; to destroy the tendency to discriminate between any two things in theory, and in practice to pierce the veils of every sanctuary, pressing forward to embrace every image; for there is none that is not very Isis. The Inmost is one with the Inmost; yet the form of the One is not the form of the other; intimacy exacts fitness. He therefore who liveth by air, let him not be bold to breathe water. But mastery cometh by measure: to him who with labour, courage, and caution giveth his life to understand all that doth encompass him, and to prevail against it, shall be increase. "The word of Sin is Restriction": seek therefore Righteousness, enquiring into Iniquity, and fortify thyself to overcome it."
I approached it with fear at first as well. But daily practice overcame the original fear and equilibrated Pachad with Geburah, which are sacred names of the Five. Maybe Liber V isn't a coincidental name...
@Legis said
"Do it again? Ha! You try and make me!"
Do what thou wilt in all things, Brother. It's not for everybody. I really do understand...like I said, it wasn't without fear when I first yelled "Within me the Powers! About me flames my Father's Face, the Star of Force and Fire, and in the Column stands His six-rayed splendor!"
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"When this has been done, he should abandon them if they are really harmful in relation to health and comfort..."
Yes.
Though...
I am far more equilibrated than I was at the time. But I feel I've already learned what I needed to from it. For me, at the time, it was a very big deal.
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@Legis said
"But I feel I've already learned what I needed to from it."
If you're indifferent to it, I would agree. But, that means that you could do it daily and it would make no difference than if you didn't do it...or, at least one wouldn't feel threatened by the performance of it. Not saying that you are, but you seemed to indicate that only studying it overwhelmed your psychology in (perhaps) a negative way...
If you did it once daily for a turn of the sun, I would say you gave it a real go...a year would be an even better experiment.
I'm not trying to advocate for its use. Like I said, it's not for everyone.
Again, do what thou wilt, Brother.
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@Frater 639 said
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@Tony DeLuce said
"Los do you find it interesting that Liber V is not assigned anywhere in the A.'. A .'. curriculum? "That isn't true in all cases. It's usually assigned to the Zelator in my "lineage.""
With no disrespect intended... I'm pretty sure that by "the A.'.A.'. curriculum," Tony meant "as defined by its creators." Crowley never assigned it any place in the curriculum unless the "magician of any grade" remark is taken to mean it should be in the Probationer curriculum.