LBRP
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@Frater SI said
"Frater they don't even have Libraries in Zimbabwe anymore
"I didn't write that very right, lol. I meant to say that people, on average in a developed country, have the library to use. It was moreof to the people not having internet... and not for the Zimbabwe part. Bah, I suck at writing.
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93,
Quick question - most everywhere I read the ritual is said to be preformed with a dagger, but in Duquette's The Magick of Thelema he says, or reprints a manuscript that says, one should use the wands.
So... Which is it?
Love=Law
- C
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@ThatNarrowFellow said
"Quick question - most everywhere I read the ritual is said to be preformed with a dagger, but in Duquette's The Magick of Thelema he says, or reprints a manuscript that says, one should use the wands."
Either, depending.
Most often, it's done without any special implement besides the finger. This isn't a "make do," it's just the practical standard and works as well.
The recommendation for a wand is that this should be an act of will. On the other hand, this is a Mars-themed ritual (the Pentagram is a symbol of Geburah - primarily but not exclusively), so a steel implement is consistent with the root idea. Of steel implements, a blade adds further symbolism.
The arguement against the dagger is that it is a symbol of Air and intellect, usually not what you want.
One solution - to carry the Will elements of the wand and the steel blade advantages of the dagger, but without the Air and intellect implications - is to use a short sword similar to the Roman gladius. (A broadsword is way too cumbersome.) As a sword, it would be dedicated to Mars.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
when i'm "drawing" stuff like pentagrams, i usually use my right thumb, which i stick between my middle and index fingers so that it sticks out from between them. on one plane, this symbolizes "love under will" and it's never done me wrong
Love is the law, love under will
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I too have been using the thumb between fingers technique now for ages. It works fine and if a demon tries to break into your circle you can trick him into thinking you've pulled his nose off.
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The instruction in I.R. Complete GD System of Magic - "an alternate method of vibrating the divine names" shows that one has to make the Calvary Cross, The Enterer, The Sign of Silence. Crowley also uses the same procedure in the Star Ruby.
I think the Calvary Cross posture brings one's mind back to Kether a point stressed in the instruction. And the projecting sign gets the energy going into the pentagram as the Silence sign stops the energy flow. May I ask Jim why do you think differently? -
@Modes said
"May I ask Jim why do you think differently?"
About what, exactly?
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@nashimiron said
"I too have been using the thumb between fingers technique now for ages. It works fine and if a demon tries to break into your circle you can trick him into thinking you've pulled his nose off.
"93! My God, for some reason I just cracked up out loud at work when I read this about the nose! Thanks for that!
can anyone speak more about the symbolism of the thumb between the fingers, and since multiple people are doing this, what source did you take it from?
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Most probably took it from the Gnostic Mass.
The origin is that it's an old Sicilian folk-defense against curses.
The Qabalistic retro-fited symbolism is that the thumb, symbolic of spirit (and surely no longer than Baby H.P.K.'s wee-wee) is a symbol of spirit.
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Exactly about the way one should vibrate the Names in LBPR. You write that one could exlude all the signs - just visualize and vibrate but it is contrary to the sources I mentioned. I mentioned the logic why one would do it how it is written. I would like to understand why you do it differently.
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For me the question would be the opposite: Why have a few modern authors unnecessarily changed the original instructions? The simple method of pointing your finger or other implement at the center of the pentagram and vibrating the Name gives very precise control, allows one to maintain uninterrupted concentration, and is thoroughly sufficient.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"BTW, it isn't "Hod and Earth... to the North." It's Hod to the South - hence Mikhael."From the "Notes":
You are facing Tiphareth (the Sun), thus on your right hand is Netzach (Venus), on your left hand Hod (Mercury), and behind you Yesod (the Moon)."I'm sure that's a typo in the original notes."
This has been bothering me. It makes sense to be backed against the tree but not only is there the above quote in the appendices but a diagram dipicting the same. Clearly illustrated with Hod in the North with Earth, Auriel, and Mercury; Netzach opposing.
Also, in the editor's notes (Hymenaeus Beta), "In comments to The Temple of the Holy Ghost, Crowley relates the Archangels of the Quarters to the Sephiroth and connecting Paths of the Tree of Life: 'These archangels are at points on the "Tree of Life" which cause them to surround as described one who is "crucified" thereon. Raphael dwells in Tiphareth, Beauty. Gabriel, dweller in Yesod, where are the Kerubim. Michael [sic, read Auriel], lord of Hod, an Emanation of a waty nature. Auriel [sic, read Michael], archangel of Netzach, to which Fire is attributed.'
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"1. Imagine yourself standing in the Temple, facing West. The Black Pillar of Severity will be on your right--the White Pillar of Mercy on your left. You will make the Middle Pillar as you stand between them."
altreligion.about.com/library/bl_middlepillar.htmIt seems like you back into the tree during the Middle Pillar Exercise but you face the West so it would make sense for the pillars to be reversed when facing East during the LBRP.
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I just noticed another Venus - Fire correspondence. In the caption under the fire pentagrams in the GRP it says, "The Grade of 4=7 is particularly attributed to the Element Fire; it refers to the Planet Venus..."
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@Jackdaw said
"I just noticed another Venus - Fire correspondence. In the caption under the fire pentagrams in the GRP it says, "The Grade of 4=7 is particularly attributed to the Element Fire; it refers to the Planet Venus...""
Yes. That's the primary correspondence, from which the others are derived.
But it doesn't really apply so much to the Pentagram Ritual formula. If that attribution were the basis of the ritual structure, then the Hod correspondence to the north would assign Water - and it doesn't.
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Also, in column 12 of Table 1 (in 777) Fire is attributed to Netzach and Water to Hod.
And Hymenaeus Beta seemingly attributing them otherwise...
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93 All
I have a question about how the GPR relates to the LPR. In the GPR, "AHIH" and "AGLA" are used with the active and passive spirit pentagrams respectively, yet in the LPR, "AHIH" is used in the west with passive water, and "ADNI", (which is used in the GPR with the elementally passive earth), is used in the LPR with active fire. So does that mean that the magician is not standing at the intersection of Samekh and Pe in the GPR? It would seem to me that the magician is more at the intersection when doing the GPR, then when doing the LPR because the GPR uses the Atziluthic God names of the Sephiroth. Also, why if the magician is standing at the intersection of Samekh and Pe in the LPR, is Uriel used instead of Haniel in the Briatic part of the working? So what am I not understanding here?
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@Fr.211 said
"I have a question about how the GPR relates to the LPR. In the GPR, "AHIH" and "AGLA" are used with the active and passive spirit pentagrams respectively, yet in the LPR, "AHIH" is used in the west with passive water, and "ADNI", (which is used in the GPR with the elementally passive earth), is used in the LPR with active fire."
Here's the key: In the Lesser ritual, the Names do not apply to the Elements; in the Greater, they do.
In the Lesser, the Divine Names are a sequence that applies to an entirely other framework than the elements (and which can be used by itself independent of the Pentagram Ritual). But in the Greater, the Names are explicitly those attributed to the Elements. The rituals are two quite different rituals in this respect.
"So does that mean that the magician is not standing at the intersection of Samekh and Pe in the GPR?"
You are. (In some ways, you are standing there more than ever, because the Greater ritual is intimately connected to the Portal Grade which is located at that exact spot on the Tree.)
"Also, why if the magician is standing at the intersection of Samekh and Pe in the LPR, is Uriel used instead of Haniel in the Briatic part of the working? So what am I not understanding here?
"Because, despite the Sephirothic layout, it is Uriel and not Haniel who is archangel of Earth.
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Ok thanx for the clarifications. I find that is interesting that Earth and Uriel are used in the quadrant that would be attributed to Netzach and the Elohim if standing at the intersection; the Venusian component of Netzach is the reason? If so, then should not the remaining directional attributions also follow the planetary schema? ex.-Tipareth/fire, Hod=Air, etc. Sorry if these questions seem rather basic, but I'm trying to teach myself as best I can
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The ritual is primarily elemental at that point. It is only conveniently Sephirothic.