Liber V vel Reguli
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There are several overlapping frameworks happening, and it would take at least one lengthy essay to touch on them.
But... what do you think is going on? Your confusion is not from the absence of ideas, I think, but from too many competing ideas coexisting. Quiet yourself, and listen to what the main message is rising up.
BTW, kundalini is probably off track - but chakras are surely (at least partly) on the track.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Actually, I don't think that there is much inherently beneficial from Reguli at all except for people rooted in the G.D. tradition."
That sort of begs the question of why was Reguli practiced as a group ritual at the Abbey of Thelema? The only person there rooted in the Golden Dawn tradition was Crowley himself. (Unless of course it was all for his benefit alone. But that doesn't make much sense.)
In the essay that follows Reguli, Crowley draws attention to Liber AL 1:22....."Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt." With that in mind Crowley's use of the "averse" pentagrams makes sense. Absolute divisions between good and bad would seem to be products of the Aeon of Osiris where an upright pentagram = good, and an averse pentagram = bad. My limited understanding of the Aeon of Horus suggests a more relatavistic approach is needed.
Surely the effect of any symbol used in ritual is dependent on the intent of the magician. The differences between the Golden Dawn and Aurum Solis pentagrams is testament to that.
Everyone learns to use the pentagram in it's upright state and identifies with it as a positive symbol. But does that create division because suddenly "averse" becomes bad? Is Reguli then a corrective?
Is there a link with the Hierophant card in the Thoth tarot. Typically Crowley makes no mention of the averse pentagram on that card.
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@Her said
"That sort of begs the question of why was Reguli practiced as a group ritual at the Abbey of Thelema? The only person there rooted in the Golden Dawn tradition was Crowley himself."
Everybody seems to keep missing that the core training of the A.'.A.'. is barely discernible from the Golden Dawn training in the main points.
"(Unless of course it was all for his benefit alone. But that doesn't make much sense.)"
Actually, it makes a lot of sense. During that time he did a lot of ritual development and magical working that was extremely autistic within his highly distinctive magical universe. (This produced some very valuable records and results, btw.)
I'm not saying that's the case - I suspect the real reason is that he was working on it and just wanted to involve "all hands on deck" in testing it, or just wanted to see the effect.
I make no comment on any of the comments here concerning the direction of the pentagrams. Anything new I have to say on the matter would be either obligated Outer Order content, or wouldn't be likely to be understood by people below 5=6 A.'.A.'. (or in some cases 2=9), or would just be intellectual padding. I don't think it's the biggest issue in the whole thing, and there is more that remains unchanged in the geometry of the Pentagram than changes when it is rotated. That in isolation is not a big deal, though that in context of other elements in the ritual, and especially the developmental level of the magician, make a big difference.
"Surely the effect of any symbol used in ritual is dependent on the intent of the magician."
That's always an element, but I think it is too much overlooked that many of these things have objective value.
One place where intent matters a great deal seems to be the direction of circumambulation. A lot of work was done on that in Cefalu that survives in Jane's diaries and other records. There are (I'm not stopping to count and itemize them at the moment) about five different distinct known effects of widdershins circumambulation, and this varies with the ritual, the context, and the intent. On the other hand, there is at least one decisively objective result, which is that it sets up a current (of greater or lesser duration) in the direction in which it is performed. So there are objective elements mingling with (what in this case are more considerable) results depedent on intent or context.
Also, a word about intent: Conscious intent is far from the only element. Subconscious intent is enormously powerful; and, when you use symbols, you are directly speaking the language of subconsciousness. Dependinng on your awake, conscious participation in subconsciousness' participation in that, your use of symbols may, in fact, be rewriting subconscious intention during the course of the ritual regardless of conscious intent.
"The differences between the Golden Dawn and Aurum Solis pentagrams is testament to that."
That's a matter of training, and the reason I don't recommend people mix those systems. One must develop the inner habit of unthinkingly knowing what one is drawing and what it relates to.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I make no comment on any of the comments here concerning the direction of the pentagrams. Anything new I have to say on the matter would be either obligated Outer Order content, or wouldn't be likely to be understood by people below 5=6 A.'.A.'. (or in some cases 2=9), or would just be intellectual padding."
I guess that means "end of discussion"?
Thanks anyway Jim. Your comments have given me much to think about.One thing has just come to mind though concerning Reguli. A little footnote in MTP, chp13. For some reason Crowley mentions Reguli in connection with banishing!
"Let the banishing therefore be short, but in no wise slurred - for it is useful, as it tends to produce the proper attitude of mind for the invocations. "The Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram" (as now rewritten) is the best to use. *
- See also the ritual called "The Mark of the Beast" given in an Appendix. But this is pantomorphous."
As far as I know pantomorphous means something can take all forms. So is Crowley suggesting that Reguli could be used in the same manner as the GRP?
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@Her said
"I guess that means "end of discussion"?"
Nope! Go ahead and talk about it. At most, it means end of my discussion. Let the party continue!
"One thing has just come to mind though concerning Reguli. A little footnote in MTP, chp13. For some reason Crowley mentions Reguli in connection with banishing!
"Let the banishing therefore be short, but in no wise slurred - for it is useful, as it tends to produce the proper attitude of mind for the invocations. "The Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram" (as now rewritten) is the best to use. *"
"That's referring to the Star Ruby, not Liber Reguli. The footnote is misleading, probably an editor's screw-up. (I'm going off your quote, don't have a copy here at work.)
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There are two footnotes to that line in MTP. The first one mentions the Star Ruby, but the second one points to Reguli.
""The Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram" (as now rewritten, Liber 333, Cap. XXV) is the best to use.*
**See also the Ritual called "The Mark of the Beast" given in an Appendix. But this is pantomorphous.*"
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@Her said
"There are two footnotes to that line in MTP. The first one mentions the Star Ruby, but the second one points to Reguli.
""The Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram" (as now rewritten, Liber 333, Cap. XXV) is the best to use.*
**See also the Ritual called "The Mark of the Beast" given in an Appendix. But this is pantomorphous.*"
"First footnote is on target - the second is an apparent error.
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93
- the creation of the 3 horizontal lines starts by the magician using the 3 horizontal lines starts by the magician using the same hand gesture as touching his forehead, mouth, & larynx
well the forehead is the ajna chakra, and the throat the vishudda chakra, but i dont see the mouth, why the mouth??
93s
418
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Apologies for temporarily derailing this discussion...
@Jim Eshelman said
"Good for beginners? Honestly, nothing beats the basics. The Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram and the Middle Pillar ritual (in one or another of its basic forms) - to which Thelemites would quickly add Liber Resh and "Will.""
I've seen "Will" described before, but I haven't relocated it. Can anyone point me towards any versions of it?
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@sasha said
"I've seen "Will" described before, but I haven't relocated it. Can anyone point me towards any versions of it?"
Before the main meal of the day at least, and optionally on each occasion of preparing to eat, pause briefly, center yourself, and recite the following lines. (The form given here is for two people.)
A: (with a knife or similar implement, knock three times, then five times, then three times, *** ***** ***, then say:) Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
B: What is thy will?
A: It is my will to eat and drink.
B: To what end?
A: That my body may be fortified thereby.
B: To what end?
A: That I may accomplish the Great Work.
B: Love is the law, love under will.
A: (knock once, *) Fall to.The same ceremony may be easily performed by one person eating alone, by only performing the actions and saying the lines attributed to âAâ above, plus the last line attributed to âB,â and dispensing with the words after the final knock.
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93
waht do you think about this for the meaning of the liber 5 part where the forehead, mouth and larynx is touched?
the creation of the 3 horizontal lines starts by the magician using the 3 horizontal lines starts by the magician using the same hand gesture as touching his forehead, mouth, & larynx, crying AIWAZ! out of these 3 points 2 of them are activating activating chakras, the forehead is where the AJNA chakra is located, this is the chakra associated with thought, and corresponds with the sephiroth of kether. the larynx is where the chakra VISHUDDA is located, this is the chakra which creates speech as well as your own silence. it is here in the VISHUDDA chakra where the thought created in the AJNA chakra turns to sound and is shared with others, also this chakra corresponds to the abyss on the tree of life, being the bridge between the higher world to the lower. the mouth is the final part of the body that creates speech or silence, the thought is created in AJNA and is turned into voice in the VISHUDDA chakra and then mouth is where the voice is turned into words and made into communication.
do you think i am off on the meaning up there?? i mean i see all 7 chakras are activated in the grand sigil of the heirophant, but to me throwing the mouth in there confuses me.
thanks for the help
93s
FR.418
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"Good for beginners? Honestly, nothing beats the basics. The Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram and the Middle Pillar ritual (in one or another of its basic forms) - to which Thelemites would quickly add Liber Resh and "Will." Six months of persistent daily performance of the Pentagram Ritual, Middle Pillar, and Resh and you'll be in place to see things with quite different eyes."
Is there a specifically A.'.A.'. "endorsed" Middle Pillar ritual, or one that anyone would perhaps recommend? I have been using the one presented in "The Tree of Life" by Regardie. Secondly, when Jim wrote, "...Liber Resh and "Will." Is there somekind of ritual called "Will?"
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@h3fall3n777 said
"Is there a specifically A.'.A.'. "endorsed" Middle Pillar ritual, or one that anyone would perhaps recommend?"
No. The technique was invented by Israel Regardie after the core A.'.A.'. instructions (and most of the non-core ones) were long written.
I'd recommend using it straight out of Regardie's works, or the minor variations employed by the Aurum Solis that can be found in the Denning & Phillips main series. (I'm presuming from your question that you're not the member of an Order, or enrolled in a training program, that has its own instruction in this. If you are, then I advise whatever your system is instructing.)
"Secondly, when Jim wrote, "...Liber Resh and "Will." Is there somekind of ritual called "Will?""
Yes. Do you know the "before meal" ritual? (I don't remember if there's been a thread on it here.) That's the one called "Will" or (more casually) "doing Will."
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@Jim Eshelman said
". . . (and there is a way in which Reguli's penchant for rather swamp-ugly destablization might occasionally be useful to the Neophyte 1=10)."
@Jim Eshelman said
". . . Two, the progress made combined with the particular work of 2=9 would probably have one more naturally able to handle the particular things Reguli stirs."
I'm interested in your views of the nature of the "particular things Reguli stirs".
Best wishes,
Michael.
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Is there anyone with experience of working with Reguli who can cast light on these intriguing remarks from earlier in this thread:
@Jim Eshelman said
". . . (and there is a way in which Reguli's penchant for rather swamp-ugly destablization might occasionally be useful to the Neophyte 1=10)."
@Jim Eshelman said
". . . Two, the progress made combined with the particular work of 2=9 would probably have one more naturally able to handle the particular things Reguli stirs."
Best wishes,
Michael.
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No, not an official secret. I just personally don't like to talk about Reguli very much, so I'm keeping out of this phase of the dicussion.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"No, not an official secret. I just personally don't like to talk about Reguli very much, so I'm keeping out of this phase of the dicussion."
Naturally I respect your reserve, Jim. What you did say earlier in the thread echoed some experiences I had towards the end of a Working based on Reguli which I undertook many years ago, in the late 1980s.
Before discussing these experiences further, has anyone else on these boards worked with Reguli? If so, I'd be interested to hear.
Best wishes,
Michael.
