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@Jim Eshelman said
"It doesn't even match the "inside information" the O.T.O. published from its archives a few years ago."
This is the whole point. There are so many "supposed" authorities out there with different opinions on this subject and many others. And each one of them is correct of course!
The would be student may as well just flip a coin when choosing between them.
@Jim Eshelman said
"I'm occasionally hard pressed to be sympathetic"
I wasn't looking for sympathy Jim or expecting to get any either. Roll with the punches huh?
@Jim Eshelman said
" Moral of the story: Submit an application and go through the training step by step!
(Or, hang out here and ask questions.)"Thanks for the moral Jim. I guess my current incarnation is a complete waste of time.
I might as well kill myself now and hope and pray that I have the good fortune to be reincarnated in the vacinity of a branch of the Temple of Thelema in the near future. (I'm located in the UK by the way. Which is obviously part of my bad karma. )Pardon the sarcasm Jim. I have a bit of a sense of humour.
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by the way on this HERU::
"Lon Milo DuQuette in his book The Magick of Thelema (reprinted as the Magick of Aleister Crowley) says that the NOX signs used in the Star Ruby does not include the sign Mater Triumphans. He's supposedly been doing this stuff since the 70's and is considered to be something of an authority.!!! So if he's clueless, what hope does anyone else have? "
i asked lon about this about a year ago, why isnt mater triumphans included in star ruby, he said on its just a misprint. i said and how many times has this book been reprinted with out corrections, he quickly changed the subject.
i did star ruby for like 2 years before being corrected, and thats acually kinda a funny story too. i was at an OTO meeting where the electorial college president was there and offered to banish, and later he asked me when we were talking why i didnt do mater triumphans. and i was like what where does it say that is apart of the ritual?
though i love duquettes writings, you should study crowleys works much more than his.
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@bethata418 said
"i asked lon about this about a year ago, why isnt mater triumphans included in star ruby, he said on its just a misprint."
Actually I think that's how the Star Ruby was being taught by a number of people back in the early 90's and quite possibly earlier. See Gerald del Campo's book, New Aeon Magick,(published 1994) where he treats the Star Ruby in exactly the same manner as DuQuette.
I should also add that Gerald del Campo's book was republished by Luxor Press in 2000. In this newer, corrected, expanded, and revised edition the Star Ruby has remained the same as it was in the 1994 edition.
@bethata418 said
"though i love duquettes writings, you should study crowleys works much more than his."
Quite correct. But I would assume that both DuQuette and Campo studied Crowley's works too and yet they still came to an "apparently" incorrect conclusion. Draw your own conclusions from that. Being one of the "profane" it would be improper for me to comment further.
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understand but duquette saud there was nothign to it, just a simple mistake:(
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@bethata418 said
"understand but duquette saud there was nothign to it, just a simple mistake:("
That's my point exactly. That knowledgeable and experienced students can study Crowley's works and still come to mistaken and incorrect conclusions says a lot.
Crowley is never very clear about the NOX signs anywhere. The only place where he is explicit about them is in private letters to private students, like Achad. And even then he makes changes and alterations. Telling one student one thing, and then telling something different to another student. Is it any wonder then that there are differences of opinon on this subject?
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No, and it is frustrating to not understand. Sort of like grabbing jello. At the same time, maybe it is contradictory because the concepts are not simple and range from person to person, from situation to situation. I am thinking of the Bible at this time. You get a commandment of "Thou shalt not kill" from a murderer (Moses) who sets about destroying all kinds of tribes around him and taking their land. I could name a dozen of contradictions off the top of my head.
It is very frustrating to go ahead on a path and have different directions from the person who has gone before.
In L.V.X.,
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@Chris Hanlon said
"Sort of like grabbing jello."
That's a very good metaphor.
The NOX signs are the product of Crowley, so it really doesn't help matters that he was never quite clear about their use. Also he seems to have been experimenting with them as went along. Changing their order from time to time. And to top it, much of this never made it into his published works. So when you're trying to figure it all out from the material that is in print it feels like you're trying to put an incomplete jigsaw puzzle together, and even worse , everyone has a different opinion of how the pieces fit together.
The rituals written by Crowley that use the NOX signs don't shed much light on this issue either because they are either a little ambiguous or they differ with regard to the signs. The Star Ruby simply says: "retire to the centre and raise thy voice in the Paian, with the words IO PAN, and the signs of N.O.X." That can, and indeed is, interpreted in many different ways. We have Jim's answer above, which coincides with a letter from Crowley to Achad. There are also suggestions that link the NOX signs with the formula of IHVH. They transpose the position of the sign Puella within the scheme, but it still spells NOX because Puella doesn't correspond to a letter of NOX.
I find David Cherubim's idea of the NOX signs to make sense in connection with this specific order:
"IO PAN has 5 letters and thus corresponds with the Pentagram. Qabalistically, IO PAN is Yod-Ayin Peh-Nun = 210 = N.O.X. or Nun-Ayin-Tzaddi. N.O.X. is the Night of Pan and the Word of Hoor.
The Signs of N.O.X. are five: Puella (Girl), Puer (Boy), Vir (Man), Mulier (Woman), and Mater Triumphans (Triumphant Mother). Note the connection of these five Signs with the Tree of Life: Puella = Malkuth, Puer = Yesod, Vir = Tiphareth, Mulier = The Abyss, and Mater Triumphans = Binah. This order of the Signs thus represents the formula of crossing and transcending the Abyss by way of the Middle Pillar of Initiation.
The N.O.X. Signs are done around the Circle of the Temple. N.O.X., the "Night" of Pan = Nuit = The Circumference. Whereas the L.V.X. Signs are done in the Centre of the Temple. L.V.X., the "Light" of the Gnosis = Hadit = The Centre."
Oddly enough this same scheme is followed in Liber V vel Reguli. But here again we have differences of opinion. Somewhere on this forum Jim put forward his opinion that Reguli is a kind of trap planted by Crowley himself. So if we follow Jim's opinion this sequence of the NOX signs might be suspect.
(I'm still looking for the place that Crowley mentions this "trap". All I've been able to find is a reference to "something" being included in The Book of Lies as an act of spite. But Reguli is not in the Book of Lies.)On the other hand Lon Milo DuQuette sings the praises of Reguli, as does Rodney Orpheus in his book, ABRAHADABRA.
The same material + different people = different opinions. -
Excuse a slight digression, but isn't that frustration the point which makes you keep going on your own?
There are three main reasons I can think of for why a "leader" can have the same vices SHe teaches others to stay away from:
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SHe's too distracted with thinking up the best possible rules for others to follow to be able to focus on doing what's "right".
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SHe's human too, which forms a connection between hir and hir followers to make them see how and why in a clearer light.
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There's more to life than being perfect. The only thing the "leader" says is "do this and things will work out for you. Nobody said I was perfect, I'm just aware. It's YOUR life, not mine. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Peace and love."
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@Her said
"The NOX signs are the product of Crowley, so it really doesn't help matters that he was never quite clear about their use. Also he seems to have been experimenting with them as went along. Changing their order from time to time. And to top it, much of this never made it into his published works. So when you're trying to figure it all out from the material that is in print it feels like you're trying to put an incomplete jigsaw puzzle together, and even worse , everyone has a different opinion of how the pieces fit together.
"I have his personal workbook during the years he was developing them. (Most or all of the info from that made it into footnotes in HB's Book 4 edition.) They key thing is that they are the A.'.A.'. Grade signs for 6=5 through 8=3 - that has stayed consistent. Ultimately, that's the only "order" for them, though they are used in different ways in different rituals.
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@Malaclypse said
"3) There's more to life than being perfect. The only thing the "leader" says is "do this and things will work out for you. Nobody said I was perfect, I'm just aware. It's YOUR life, not mine. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Peace and love.""
I like this.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"They key thing is that they are the A.'.A.'. Grade signs for 6=5 through 8=3 - that has stayed consistent. Ultimately, that's the only "order" for them, though they are used in different ways in different rituals."
Well that's sorted then. But can anyone explain why the grade of Babe of the Abyss / Daath has two signs? Mullier and Puella? Is it some sort of Babalon - Virgin / Whore symbolism?
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@Her said
"But can anyone explain why the grade of Babe of the Abyss / Daath has two signs? Mullier and Puella? Is it some sort of Babalon - Virgin / Whore symbolism?"
The Zero grade of each of the three Orders has two signs.
0=0, the Zero of the First Order (in the Outer) and the Outer College (in the Inner), has two signs, the Sign of the Enterer and the Sign of Silence.
Dominus Liminis (the Portal Degree of the old Order) - 4=7 Major - is the Zero of the Second Order (in the Outer) and of the Inner College (in the Inner). It has two signs, the Sign of the Opening of the Veil and the Sign of the Closing of the Veil.
It is, therefore, no surprise to me that Babe of the Abyss - 7=4 Major - the Zero of the Third Order - has two signs. In fact, they seem to me to be their own sort of Closed Veil and Opened Veil pair, except that in this case the veil is that of Isis. (Think of it as Da'ath - from Ruach - and Da'ath opened - from Neshamah.)
As a personal technique, I've viewed these as, respectively, an East-West (forward-backward) pair of signs, then a North-South pair (left-right), then an up-down (actually, down-up) pair - defining three intersecting axes at a common point where I reside. I've sometimes used this set ceremonially for these purposes.
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Is there any evidence, published or unpublished, that confirms the elemental directions in the MTP version of the Star Ruby? Are the elemental directions consistent with those used in Reguli ~ East = Earth etc. Or are they the same as the macro-cosmic order used in the Liber 333 version?
If the elemental directions conform to the Reguli scheme why didn't Crowley change the position of the guardians to match? In both the MTP and Liber 333 versions the guardians are placed according to the macro-cosmic order. (That's assuming that the guardians are alchemical.
)Also Crowley left the macro-cosmic vocalisation instructions unchanged.
East = Roar = Lion = Leo = Fire,
North = Scream = Eagle = Scorpio = Water,
West = Say = Man = Aquarius = Air,
South = Bellow = Bull = Taurus = Earth.This does not conform to the pattern laid dowm in Reguli ~
Earth - East, Air - North, Water - West, and Fire - South.Are the elemental directions of the MTP Star Ruby just an assumption based on the placement of the Thelemic divine names in Liber Reguli? Is this a valid assumption? For example if you were to assume that just because the name Adonai = Fire in the LRP it must also relate to Fire in the GRP. This is obviously incorrect. Do the same principles apply to the Star Ruby?
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@Her said
"Is there any evidence, published or unpublished, that confirms the elemental directions in the MTP version of the Star Ruby? Are the elemental directions consistent with those used in Reguli ~ East = Earth etc. Or are they the same as the macro-cosmic order used in the Liber 333 version?"
I know of nothing that spells it out meticulously. I'd say, though, that the evidence leans that way because the tweaking was done concurrently with publishing Reguli and surely indicates thinking of the same period.
"If the elemental directions conform to the Reguli scheme why didn't Crowley change the position of the guardians to match?"
Simplest answer would be that they don't have anything to do with the Elements per se.
"In both the MTP and Liber 333 versions the guardians are placed according to the macro-cosmic order. (That's assuming that the guardians are alchemical.
)"That presumes that the Alchemical Triad can be mapped necessarily to the Elemental Tetrad.
"Also Crowley left the macro-cosmic vocalisation instructions unchanged."
I don't have any of the items right in front of me, but I'm sure we changed these in the later version - that's one of the keenest pieces of evidence of the evolving switch. I spent a page or two on the last Black Pearl Star Ruby installment on exactly that.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I'd say, though, that the evidence leans that way because the tweaking was done concurrently with publishing Reguli and surely indicates thinking of the same period."
That makes sense. I would guess that the inconsistencies between it and Reguli are either oversights or blinds.
@Jim Eshelman said
"That presumes that the Alchemical Triad can be mapped necessarily to the Elemental Tetrad."
Agreed. But I was merely using Crowley's placement of the alchemical elements in table LXIX of 777 and it's rough correspondence to the four elements.
@Jim Eshelman said
"I don't have any of the items right in front of me, but I'm sure we changed these in the later version - that's one of the keenest pieces of evidence of the evolving switch. I spent a page or two on the last Black Pearl Star Ruby installment on exactly that."
Sounds interesting. Maybe when you have the time you could comment further.
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I spoke (partly) in error - some of the language was migrated in the MT&P version, but not all. (That was the point of part of what I wrote.)
I'll try to get some or all of my Star Ruby Part III posted here. Equinox is approaching rapidly, though, and there is a great deal to do this time of year (including a new Hierophant to ordain and one new Chief to install - its going to be a very exciting Equinox).
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The Star Ruby - An Analysis
(Part 3 of 3)
by Fra. A.H.From Black Pearl, Vol. I, No. 8
Copyright College of Thelema, all rights reserved.Thus far, we have only explored the original version of The Star Ruby, published in The Book of Lies. A later version appeared in Magick in Theory & Practice. For the sake of completeness, we need to address it.
Primarily, the only outer difference between the two versions is a substitution of new Divine Names at the Quarters. Examined more closely, though, we find that these introduce a new theory of the ritual, for they alter the symbolic character ascribed by The Star Ruby to each Quarter.
Readers will remember, from Part 1 of this article, that the sequence of the Elements in the Book of Lies version conforms to the “Macrocosmic scheme” used within the Vault of the Second Order of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn; that is, at a symbolic stage corresponding to “Tiphereth within.” These are: East = Fire, North = Water, West = Air, and South = Earth. When traversed widdershins from the East, they trace a sequence corresponding to the letters Y.H.V.H.
All of this changed in the version that appeared in Magick in Theory & Practice. But the new version had some bugs in it. We submit it was a “work in progress,” a revision in evolution that may never have been fully completed by Crowley.
THE GOD LETTERS
Throughout the early 1920s, Aleister Crowley experimented with the effects of various sounds on consciousness. He would sit for long periods of meditation uttering the sound of one particular letter, noting its distinctive effect. He may have been inspired in this by the passage in Sepher Yetzirah, Cap. II, v. 3:
"Twenty-two Foundation Letters: He engraved them by voice and carved them with breath. He placed them in the mouth in five places: Aleph, Cheth, Heh, A’ayin in the throat; Gimel, Kaph, Yod, Qoph in the palate; Daleth, Teth, Lamed, Nun, Tav in the tongue; Zayin, Samekh, Shin, Resh, Tzaddi in the teeth; and Vav, Meym, Peh in the lips."
Some of his views on this topic, summarized more than 20 years later, appeared as a discussion of the “God-Letters” in Magick Without Tears. Along the way, he experimented with the possibility that certain families of sounds are related to the Four Quarters of the Magick Circle.
All of this can be studied in his published diaries of the period. The evolution of his views over time is most interesting to witness.
One of his conclusions was that sounds arising primarily from the use of “tongue and teeth” (palatals and dentals) are masculine, and those arising primarily from “lips and throat” (labials and gutturals) are feminine. The anatomical basis of this should be self-evident to the reader. Crowley had learned decades earlier, from the writings of Fabre d’Olivet, that a series of mythological names derived from the N sound (On, Oannes, Ioannes, John, Jonah, Noah, Nu, Anu, Dianus, Diana, etc.) were traditionally related to Water and the North, even as a series of sounds depending on a vocalized D or T sound, with or without an S or Sh (Adonai, Adam, Atys, Set, Satan, Saturn, Sat, Sad, Had, Adad, etc.), shared a common relationship to the South and to Fire. A brief summary of this point of view can be found in the Master Therion’s “New Comment” to the early verses of Chapter I of Liber Legis. Adding the results of his investigations of various sounds, he decided to retain that pattern, and to add a stronger dental sound to the East (establishing the East and South as the two primary “masculine” directions), and a labial sound to the West (confirming the West and North as the two primary “feminine” directions).
Based on this scheme, he then attributed the name Therion to the East, Hadit to the South, Babalon to the West, and Nuit to the North.
Notice that these attributions were based purely on sound, not on elemental attributions. Or, to the extent that there were elemental attributions considered, the initial work of d’Olivet (which Crowley preserved and reinforced in various writings and ceremonies, both published and unpublished) would have attributed Fire to the South, and Water to the North. This should have left an attribution of Air to the East, and Earth to the West – Therion to Vav, and the Sphere of the Sun, and Babalon to the final Heh, and the Kingdom of Earth.
However, this does not appear to be what Crowley did. Someplace along the way, he diverged from these principles. This apparent divergence was likely the result of his Star Ruby revision being a work in progress, and never a finished product.
CLUES FROM LIBER REGULI?
Alongside The Star Ruby in Magick in Theory & Practice, Crowley also published Liber Reguli. Liber Reguli attributes the same Divine Names to the Quarters as does the revised Star Ruby. However, in appended commentary to Liber Reguli, Crowley elaborated more on what he was introducing. He quite explicitly attributed Earth to the East, Air to the North, Water to the West, and Fire to the South.
If these elements are applied to The Star Ruby, two things will be noticed. First, although the physical motions of the ritual are identical to those in the Book of Lies version, the elemental attributions are in exactly the opposite sequence. That is, instead of Fire-Water-Air-Earth they are Earth-Air-Water-Fire, an ‘ascent’ of the Four Elements instead of a ‘descent.’ Second, although the Magick in Theory & Practice pattern preserves Fabret d’Olivet’s attribution of Fire to the South, it totally neglects his linking of Water to the North. Is this a problem? Yes it is, since Crowley thereafter persevered both in accepting d’Olivet’s work, and in attributing the name Nuit and Water to the North, as the direct result of d’Olivet’s research.
Something was off!
EDITORIAL EMENDATIONS
Further information, to help us see the confusion more clearly (the better to cut through it!), may be found in the footnotes of Magick: Book 4, edited by Frater Hymenæus Beta (Weiser, New York, 1994). Through editorial notes, Fra. H.B. has enabled us to trace much of the evolution of Crowley’s thoughts through successive revisions of the Magick in Theory & Practice manuscript. Concerning the modes of vibration of the Divine Names of each Quarter, notes 430 through 433 allow us to trace the following history.
In The Book of Lies version of The Star Ruby, we find the following instructions at each Quarter:
"East: “roar CHAOS” – Leo
North: “scream BABALON” – Scorpio
West: “say EROS” – Aquarius
South: “bellow PSYCHE” - Taurus"The relation of the words “roar, scream, say, bellow” to the four Kerubim (or elemental wardens) was thoroughly discussed in Part 1 of this article in **BLACK PEARL **No. 5. It is important to understanding what follows that you be thoroughly familiar with these correspondences. They are based on the Kerubic attributions that Crowley first learned in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, of the Lion to Fire, the Bull to Earth, the Eagle to Water, and the Man to Aquarius.
The Book of Lies language was preserved through the second typescript of Magick in Theory & Practice (TS2). Then, Crowley made the following editorial emendations to TS2:
"East: “roar THERION”
North: “say NUIT”
West: “hisses BABALON”
South: “bellow HADIT”"The name changes are clear. He has substituted the four names from the Thelemic Pantheon that were discussed earlier. However, the prescribed vocalization characteristics give us a very different picture than would the attributions of the Elements to the Quarters given in Liber Reguli! By “roar” and “bellow,” we would still expect Fire and Earth to be attributed to East and South, respectively. Yet, despite this variance, we cannot seriously consider the possibility that Crowley had ignored or forgotten his original code, for he specifically moved the word “say” (Man = Air) from the West to the North – exactly where he moved the element of Air. Furthermore, the use of the word “hisses” in the West is unmistakably related to the ophidian aspect of Scorpio – no longer the “screaming” Eagle. (In the final version he changed this word to “whisper;” but the shifting pattern was clearly established.)
The simplest explanation of all of this is that, in writing his corrections for the next typescript, he simply forgot to switch the words “roar” and “bellow” which, therefore, were left exactly as in the original Book of Lies (and MT&P TS2) form.
The existence of several revisions in the Star Ruby manuscript versions, along with the precise and persistent use of his original code in some places and its neglect in others, leads us to the conclusion that Crowley “had not worked out all of the bugs” by the time he went to press. Hence our view that this was an unfinished revision, a work in progress. At the very least, it suffered from the insufficient proofreading which is every editor and publisher’s nightmare!
WITH A BELLOW & ROAR
If we are to use the fruitful parts of this revision, we are left with two apparent solutions to its architectural problems:
First approach: If we accept the attributions of the vocalization characteristics to the Quarters, and hence the names as given, then we must shift the elemental attributions. To the South and the Name Hadit we would attribute Fire (Yod, Leo), and to the North and the Name Nuit we would attribute Water (Heh, Scorpio), just as was originally theorized based on d’Olivet’s work. Then, we would fill out the pattern by attributing to the East the Name Therion and the Element Air (Vav, Aquarius); and to the West, the Name Babalon and the Element Earth (Heh-final, Taurus). The vocalization prescriptions would then be reattributed accordingly. The resulting arrangement is, curiously, that of the officer distributions in the First Order of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (see the G.D. Neophyte ritual in various standard references), and also a known formula for assigning the Elements based on distributing the letters of AHYH, Eheyeh, on the arms of a cross.
Second approach: Preserve both the Names and the Elements to the Quarters suggested by the revision – Earth, Air, Water, Fire, clockwise beginning in the East – but rearrange all of the associated symbolism as well by simply swapping “bellow” and “roar.” Bellow “Therion” in the East, say “Nuit” in the North, whisper or hiss Babalon in the West, and roar Hadit in the South. This conforms to the simplest interpretation of the revision manuscript evidence: that Crowley simply missed reversing the words “bellow” and “roar” during his editing of the manuscript.
This last point may seem a small change; but it removes a very substantial symbolic confusion from the ritual, and returns a symbolic integrity to the rite, where previously there was none.
This second adaptation of the Magick in Theory & Practice revision would then be quite suitable for First Order members – those who have not yet attained the Grade of Tiphereth and begun naturally working with the Macrocosmic Formulæ on which the first version of The Star Ruby is founded. The primary formulary change (in comparison to the symbolic pattern described in Part 1) is in the reversal of the sequence of the Four Elements, so that they represent an ascent, rather than a descent, of the Elemental sephiroth below Tiphereth. The pattern of the ritual then corresponds to an entirely different formula, as follows:
"(0) Harpocrates and Apo pantos kakodaimonos: The “Zero Formula” which precedes the Elemental steps.
(1) Qabalistic Cross: Formulation of the Tree of Life: an expression of the aspiration to go on.
(2) The Pentagrams: Earth, Air, Water, Fire = Malkuth, Yesod, Hod, Netzach.
(3) Return to the Center: Tiphereth. The N.O.X. Signs: Geburah, Chesed, Da’ath, Binah.
(4) Setting the Guardians: Briatic Wardens of the Quarters.
(5) Qabalistic Cross: Confirm the flowing forth of L.V.X. through the entire Tree of Life.
(0) Harpocrates and Apo, etc.: Either a dissolution into the ZERO beyond the Supernals; or a return and recentering into oneself back at the beginning."
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Thank you very much Jim!
I think in one fell swoop you have managed to answer nearly every single question I have ever had about the Star Ruby!I was particularly struck by your explanation of the order of the elements as representing either an ascent or a descent through the elemental sephiroth. It completely answers my previous question about the position of the guardians. There is no need to change their positions because in both versions of the Star Ruby the act of returning to the centre of the circle represents the placement of the magician at Tiphareth. Neat.
This may be an incorrect assesment but to me now the MTP Star Ruby looks like it perfectly spans the gap between the traditional micro-cosmic Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram and the macro-cosmic Star Ruby in the Book of Lies.
Your suggestion that the vocalisations for Earth and Fire be switched makes perfect sense too. I had previously thought of this but hesitated just in case Crowley was trying to make some sort of connection between the name Therion and the Lion symbolism. But of course this falls down under closer inspection because there is no real connection, as far as I know, between the Bull and Hadit.
I do have one small question left.
Where did Crowley get the idea of projecting pentagrams instead of drawing them? The only other place I have seen this idea is in the Aurum Solis's Setting of the Wards of Power ritual. I believe that the A.S. was founded in 1897 so is it possible that Crowley knew of their techniques? -
The A.S. technique is modern and was copied from the published Star Ruby.
I dunno when he got the idea - probably a natural evoloution from the Sign of the Enterer formulae he learned in R.R. et A.C.
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I've been following this thread for awhile now and a question occurs. With all the diffrent attributions of the elements to tha various quarters, I wonder: being that there are sixteen possible permutations, are there (at least theoretically) sixteen different formulae to be derived therefrom?
Dan