Star Ruby
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@Her said
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@bethata418 said
"understand but duquette saud there was nothign to it, just a simple mistake:("That's my point exactly. That knowledgeable and experienced students can study Crowley's works and still come to mistaken and incorrect conclusions says a lot."
I think this is something to remember in general with the people who came up in the 70s. Many of them had incomplete information and created their own personal systems of magickal development based on incomplete understandings of Crowley's work because they didn't have the access to the material that we do now. Some remained extremely orthodox like DUQuette & others got all Typhonian like the Ma'atians and developed wholly different systems also based on Liber AL. We now have the benefit of the work of HB, Jim etc. in that they are getting this "lost" information out there for us to use and develop a more whole relationship with the Holy Books outside of just Liber AL.
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Thanks much Jim for posting parts 1 and 2 - very helpful
FYI: Just get together those Black Pearls, stick them in a book (Lulu online has been good to me), and you've got a sale here -
I agree, this is some of the best info. I have ever seen concerning the Star Ruby. I still have a question though. It concerns the performance of the Star Ruby after the LBRP. I understand that the Star Ruby is sufficient in and of itself as a banishing ritual...but it seems that we are taught by Crowley to perform BOTH daily?
I am still attempting to put together a daily ritual regiment (the story of my life) but I have to keep going back to the drawing board because various points like this are coming to light.
Any suggestions as to a good regiment in order to continually work all of the basic rituals?
The one's which I enjoy working with the most right now consist of the LBRP, Star Ruby, Hexagram Ritual, Liber Resh.
Am I ready to perform the Mass of the Phoenix? I have always imagined how great it would be to perform a personal eucharist ritual on a daily or weekly basis.
Crowley teaches us to Invoke constantly, what can I invoke on a daily basis? I used to work the Bornless One/ Liber Samekh, daily but this has been put on hold until I go back to the basics so to speak.
Frater 21-Questions
93 93/93
-Xkip
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@xkip93 said
"I agree, this is some of the best info. I have ever seen concerning the Star Ruby. I still have a question though. It concerns the performance of the Star Ruby after the LBRP. I understand that the Star Ruby is sufficient in and of itself as a banishing ritual...but it seems that we are taught by Crowley to perform BOTH daily? "
No. I'm not sure where you're seeing that. If you use Star Ruby, then that is as a replacement for the LBRP.
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My question was prompted by Liber Aleph, "Neglect not the Performance of the Ritual of the Pentagram"
I thought that Crowley advocated the LBRP as a lifetime of use?
But if you are saying that the Star Ruby replaces it in whole, then that is good enough for me.
-Xkip
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@xkip93 said
"My question was prompted by Liber Aleph, "Neglect not the Performance of the Ritual of the Pentagram"
I thought that Crowley advocated the LBRP as a lifetime of use?
But if you are saying that the Star Ruby replaces it in whole, then that is good enough for me."
In passages such as the one you quoted, the Star Ruby IS "the Ritual of the Pentagram," a complete replacement for the LBR.
Of course, one could equally argue for dispensing with the Star Ruby and sticking only with the LBR, since there isn't any evidence that Crowley ever actually performed the Star Ruby.
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93,
@Tinman said
"Thanks much Jim for posting parts 1 and 2 - very helpful
FYI: Just get together those Black Pearls, stick them in a book (Lulu online has been good to me), and you've got a sale here"Seriously!
Hope everyone is doing well!
93s,
Br C
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@xkip93 said
"My question was prompted by Liber Aleph, "Neglect not the Performance of the Ritual of the Pentagram"I thought that Crowley advocated the LBRP as a lifetime of use?
But if you are saying that the Star Ruby replaces it in whole, then that is good enough for me."
In passages such as the one you quoted, the Star Ruby IS "the Ritual of the Pentagram," a complete replacement for the LBR.
Of course, one could equally argue for dispensing with the Star Ruby and sticking only with the LBR, since there isn't any evidence that Crowley ever actually performed the Star Ruby.
"Wait a minute. Did you just say there is no evidence that Crowley performed the SR? Then doesn't that kind of weaken the argument for doing it and not doing the "old aeon" rituals?
What other rituals do you suspect Crowley did not do?
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@nderabloodredsky said
"Wait a minute. Did you just say there is no evidence that Crowley performed the SR? Then doesn't that kind of weaken the argument for doing it and not doing the "old aeon" rituals?
What other rituals do you suspect Crowley did not do?"
Well, he said he only ever did the Star Sapphire one time - though I strongly suspect he really meant that the thing the Star Sapphire really represents and accomplishes he only did one time (because it can only be done one time per incarnation).
"Behold! the rituals of the old time are black. Let the evil ones be cast away; let the good ones be purged by the prophet!" I don't think it's a matter of Old Aeon rituals vs. New Aeon rituals. Many so-called Old Aeon rituals are the foundation of New Aeon working - including ones like the Pentagram Ritual that were "purged by the prophet."
On the issue of "weaken* the argument for doing it and not doing the 'old aeon' rituals," that's never been my argument, so I have no dispute on the matter.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@nderabloodredsky said
"Wait a minute. Did you just say there is no evidence that Crowley performed the SR? Then doesn't that kind of weaken the argument for doing it and not doing the "old aeon" rituals?What other rituals do you suspect Crowley did not do?"
Well, he said he only ever did the Star Sapphire one time - though I strongly suspect he really meant that the thing the Star Sapphire really represents and accomplishes he only did one time (because it can only be done one time per incarnation).
"Behold! the rituals of the old time are black. Let the evil ones be cast away; let the good ones be purged by the prophet!" I don't think it's a matter of Old Aeon rituals vs. New Aeon rituals. Many so-called Old Aeon rituals are the foundation of New Aeon working - including ones like the Pentagram Ritual that were "purged by the prophet."
On the issue of "weaken* the argument for doing it and not doing the 'old aeon' rituals," that's never been my argument, so I have no dispute on the matter."
So are you advocating the practice of LBRP or are you saying it has been purged?
Which one: a. do you advocate,, and b. is it wrong to do the other?
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93, As an aspirant of A.'.A.'. I was given the five symbols of N.O.X., and told to include them in the Ritual. Too, to cover two questions, from my diary: the Star Ruby Ritual is symbolic of the Inner Robe of Glory, whereas the Star Sapphire is the Outer Robe of Concealment. As a Probationer, there is nothing to conceal without the glory within. we work to ignite the Glory Within. 939393, Fra. OIO
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@nderabloodredsky said
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So are you advocating the practice of LBRP or are you saying it has been purged?Which one: a. do you advocate,, and b. is it wrong to do the other?"
Either is fine. I'm not per se advocating one beyond the other.
I will say (and this is more or less visible in our public work) that in Temple of Thelema it is the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram (and others built on the same model) that we primarily teach and which is the core tool. It also integrates more perfectly with the Qabalistic framework of everything else we're doing.
The Star Ruby is only taught in an advanced Second Order stage where (1) it has a certain specific compatibility with the other symbols of the degree where it is taught and (2) where we are doing a certain amount of "fill in the gaps" of including supplemental methods that we didn't happen to have any other reason to cover before that point.
But that isn't a personal endorsement of one or the other per se, just one vs. the other within our particular context.
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@FiliusBeastia said
"93, As an aspirant of A.'.A.'. I was given the five symbols of N.O.X., and told to include them in the Ritual. Too, to cover two questions, from my diary: the Star Ruby Ritual is symbolic of the Inner Robe of Glory, whereas the Star Sapphire is the Outer Robe of Concealment. As a Probationer, there is nothing to conceal without the glory within. we work to ignite the Glory Within."
This is somebody's custom assignment. It is not part of the A.'.A.'. program per se. Since you say this was a Probationer assignment, I'd have to add that custom assignments to Probationers, except in extraordinary situations, are prohibited in the A.'.A.'. system.
I would agree with your qabalistic correspondences only where the semiprecious stones called star ruby and star sapphire are concerned. I would disagree vehemently where the rituals by those names are concerned (since the Star Sapphire is one of the inmost of all the rituals, and the Star Ruby one that most addresses outermost conditions).
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93, I am reading over your Star Ruby material as I can, Jim. I'll have some questions later,but I find parts enlightening and the whole issue enjoyable. That said I am unsure what you refer to as a custom assignment? The diary entry was my own, and my own doing only some time ago, not an assignment. And I do believe we're both in full agreement on all five signs being included, yes? Please elaborate.
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@FiliusBeastia said
"I am unsure what you refer to as a custom assignment? The diary entry was my own, and my own doing only some time ago, not an assignment."
You wrote, "As an aspirant of A.'.A.'. I was given the five symbols of N.O.X., and told to include them in the Ritual." That's a custom assignment.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"At the time he was writing this stuff, he considered that stuff secret. The N.O.X. signs are the grade signs of 6=5 through 8=3 in A.'.A.'. and had other implications he wasn't ready to write about. His private magical notebook had lots of stuff, though, and there are notes in correspondence."
What do the NOX signs mean? What is significant about the signs? I'm particularly trying to get the hear of "had other implications he wasn't ready to write about."... but I'm also just interested in having a better understanding of the NOX signs.
I get this:
"The exact ritual method is as follows. Say:
N. (give the Sign of Puer, 6=5, corresponding to Geburah)
O. (give the Sign of Vir, 7=4, corresponding to Chesed)
(With a brief pause of silence, give the Sign of Puella = the first sign of the Babe of the Abyss)
X. (give the Sign of Mulier = the second sign of the Babe of the Abyss)
NOX â IO PAN (Give the Sign of Mater Triumphans, 8=3, corresponding to Binah)"So does that mean ThE sign = The sephiroth OR The grade OR The attitude of the aspirant in that grade? And is that from a complete perspective, or from the top sephiroth down, or from the bottom sephiroth up?
And what do they have to do with sex (my banal but constant Crowley question)
Also - why do the NOX signs have 5 poses and the LVX signs have only 4... what is the significance of that?
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@Tinman said
"What do the NOX signs mean? What is significant about the signs? I'm particularly trying to get the hear of "had other implications he wasn't ready to write about."... but I'm also just interested in having a better understanding of the NOX signs."
Crowley's magical notebooks for the ~1906-12 period had a lot of annotations about these signs. (Without looking it up, I don't remember which years had the specific entries, but they kept increasing over time.) The simplest and most direct meaning is that they are the signs of 6=5 (Puer), 7=4 (Vir), Babe of the Abyss (Puella and Mulier), and 8=3 (M.T.). I'm sure they had different meanings for him at different times, including meanings related to the sexual gnosis.
"So does that mean ThE sign = The sephiroth OR The grade OR The attitude of the aspirant in that grade? And is that from a complete perspective, or from the top sephiroth down, or from the bottom sephiroth up?"
You lost me. I don't know what you're asking.
"Also - why do the NOX signs have 5 poses and the LVX signs have only 4... what is the significance of that?"
Or why does the 2=9 sign have only 1?
One pattern that is consistent in these signs is that the unnumbered (or zero-numbered) grades preceding each of the three Colleges each have two signs: 0=0 (Enterer & Silence), Dom. Lim. (Opening / Closing of veil), and Babe of the Abyss (Puella & Mulier). And, in some important senses, the Dom. Lim. are part of the 5=6 set (being for the portal to Adeptus Minor, etc.). The L.V.X. signs refer to the four quarters of the Sun during diurnal rotation, and are the three forms of the Magical Image of Tiphereth and their synthesis; the N.O.X. signs are of a different pattern.
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"So does that mean ThE sign = The sephiroth OR The grade OR The attitude of the aspirant in that grade? And is that from a complete perspective, or from the top sephiroth down, or from the bottom sephiroth up?"
"You lost me. I don't know what you're asking."
Bad communicating on my part - what I'm asking is how should I feel, what should I think about, what "essence" am invoking?!? while making a sign...
Am I summoning up all the ideas and impressions I have of the grade that the sign is associated with. Am I invoking the sephiroth (and that was where I was trying to understand if I'm thinking of the sephiroth from a top down perspective (how chokmah receives kether) or bottom up (how chokmah reaches up to kether).
And maybe it's not "me" that does anything - maybe I'm just making the sign and letting it impress me with what has been coded into it... BUT what has been coded into it?!?
(PS - after writing this and upon re-reading - it seems to me that my perspective of "signs" and what they "do" is similar to NLP anchoring... and maybe this is what is causing my own confusion - are they similar things with a similar purpose?)
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@Tinman said
"what I'm asking is how should I feel, what should I think about, what "essence" am invoking?!? while making a sign..."
That's a sound, relevant, solid question - right on target. The right kind of question to ask.
But I don't know the answer. I've gone through different things over the years. I'm sure it depends on context - e.g., they feel very different (and have a different immediate) function in the Star Ruby than in the N.O.X. variant of the Star Sapphire.
One thing about these signs: They're very visceral. They generate feelings in your body. They let energy flow. And I think, most of the time for the last 20 years, I've mostly just gone with how it feels and made sure to focus on the kinesthetics of it.
Even in the Star Ruby where the Sephirothic pattern is so relevant - that is, where, having returned to the Tiphereth point at the center, one then, in sequence, gives the signs of 6=5, 7=4, B of A, and 8=3, it seems to detract from the passion and momentum of the ritual to think too much about it. I surely note the grade relevance in passing, barely requiring any attention - but mostly I'm aware of the progression and the movement.
Each of them can be practiced individually to get their bioenergetic qualities. In general, they reveal themselves instinctively quite easily.
"(PS - after writing this and upon re-reading - it seems to me that my perspective of "signs" and what they "do" is similar to NLP anchoring... and maybe this is what is causing my own confusion - are they similar things with a similar purpose?)"
That's a good angle. I like that and I teach the same. But I think it's so in the context of having the actual grade. To anchor the sign to the point that you receive the grade is something remarkable. I think (if asked, which I sorta kinda was) that I wouldn't encourage pre-anchoring grade signs to anything else so that they can take the imprint when you actually experience the event.
E.g., there is an inherent bioenergetic quality about the 3=8 and 4=7 grade signs - you feel it in your body. I used them for years before having those grades. But they were never more than a tiny fraction as relevant and important before reaching those respective grades as they were after.
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"E.g., there is an inherent bioenergetic quality about the 3=8 and 4=7 grade signs - you feel it in your body. I used them for years before having those grades. But they were never more than a tiny fraction as relevant and important before reaching those respective grades as they were after."
With those 2 signs I always wondered if the position of the hands in triangular form have anything to do with the chakras that are nearby - Do they as taught by yourself?
Also, and this is entirely theoretical, but when I work the NOX signs - I feel as if they are incomplete (but this may be because they are only the last half of the initiation equation). My rough and hazy understanding, without going into too much depth, amounts to:
Puer seems to code a teenager who has popped his/her cherry, who has found hir voice and thinks they know it all, and may not, but has at least has begun to really know themselves.
Vir is the man the teenager grows up to be, his passions refined and yet at the same time, made more intense by learning and practicing passion as an art form
These represent 2 male aspects, but leave off the pre-puberty male (this is where the signs seem to be missing something to me)
The next three signs seem to be coding "3 forms of woman" (though I am still confused if there is an official 3 forms because I see either virgin, wife, mother OR something more like, virgin, wife (which implies mother?) and crone):
Puella - pre-puberty, Virgin (priestess atu?)
Mulier - sexually active woman, Wife (star atu?)
Isis Rejoicing - woman with child, Mother (empress atu?)Thoughts on approaching the signs from this perspective? Ideas on how to better understand them? Where did pre-pubescent boy sign go?