Tzaddi is not the Star
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@Jim Eshelman said
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No. See above. The loop is done by plotting the Hebrew letters and the Tarot card numbers. You're confusing yourself by introducing the zodiac to it."Dwtw
haha, that's a good one. When my point all along has been that the zodiac is not switched to effect any balance. It's no wonder you think I'm misunderstanding you when you keep ignoring my main point.
I GET that the letters switch. That's obvious. Its the whole point of the exercise. The whole question is whether the zodiac goes with the letter or the card. And as you say the zodiac stays with the card. Right? except that when it stays with the card, it is out of order.
Isn't it true that Libra is VIII and Leo is XI in TBOT? Yes. And that is not zodiacal order. Since Aries stays with IV and Aquarius stays with XVII, that *is *zodiacal order. The two switches are not symmetrical.
Yes, the letter switch, by itself, is symmetrical. But divorcing it from the zodiac means that the zodiac is not symmetrical.
I'm not sure why you ignore the fact that there are indeed three sequences at work here. Of these, two of them have elements that switch; the letter sequence and the zodiac. The letter switches are symmetrical. Anyone can see that. But the zodiac signs that switch are not symmetrical, (unless the zodiac goes along with the letter).
Okay, I shan't waste anyone else's time here. There's no point in both of us continuing to repeat what should be obvious to anyone with a modicum of intelligence. Thanks for the discussion. Sorry if it was redundant for you.
Litlluw
RLG -
"Isn't it true that Libra is VIII and Leo is XI in TBOT? Yes. And that is not zodiacal order. Since Aries stays with IV and Aquarius stays with XVII, that is zodiacal order. The two switches are not symmetrical. "
Nope. In BOTA tarot, Leo is 8, Teth, and Libra is 11, Lamed.
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@Frater_AVV said
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"Isn't it true that Libra is VIII and Leo is XI in TBOT? Yes. And that is not zodiacal order. Since Aries stays with IV and Aquarius stays with XVII, that is zodiacal order. The two switches are not symmetrical. "Nope. In BOTA tarot, Leo is 8, Teth, and Libra is 11, Lamed."
Dwtw
Perhaps I should not have abbreviated. TBOT stands for The Book of Thoth, which is the Tarot I was discussing.
Litlluw
RLG -
Has anyone noticed the pattern created by overlaying the rose of 22 petals on top of the zodiac circle in the Universe card?
The beam of light from the eye seems to strike the circle where the letter Heh would be. And the thing that looks like a Fish Hook enters the circle in the location of the letter Tzaddi. And then they both join up in the double loop in the snakes body. Interesting.
I'm not sure what significance the snakes head has in Lamed. But the two loops on the snakes body would correspond to the letters Heh and Aleph - HA.
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This thread has been done to death, but:
After discovering a minor proof yesterday evening (MeLeKh = 90 = Tzaddi), I re-read the section of The Book of Thoth on the Emperor trump and found this:
"...It is finally to be observed that the white light which descends upon him [the Emperor] indicates the position of this card in the Tree of Life. His authority is derived from Chokmah, the creative Wisdom, the Word, and is exerted upon Tiphareth, the organized man."
Despite his earlier assertion in this paragraph that Tzaddi refers to the signs of Aries in the zodiac, Crowley now blatantly suggests that it (Tzaddi) leads from Chokmah to Tiphareth, and not from Netzach to Yesod.
and I thought I'd brought this mystery to a close...
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@PatchworkSerpen said
"This thread has been done to death, but:
After discovering a minor proof yesterday evening (MeLeKh = 90 = Tzaddi), I re-read the section of The Book of Thoth on the Emperor trump and found this:
"...It is finally to be observed that the white light which descends upon him [the Emperor] indicates the position of this card in the Tree of Life. His authority is derived from Chokmah, the creative Wisdom, the Word, and is exerted upon Tiphareth, the organized man."
Despite his earlier assertion in this paragraph that Tzaddi refers to the signs of Aries in the zodiac, Crowley now blatantly suggests that it (Tzaddi) leads from Chokmah to Tiphareth, and not from Netzach to Yesod.
and I thought I'd brought this mystery to a close..."
See my post on Page 2 of this thread (or search for it under "HRS") where I - half seriously - made exactly that suggestion, and did a piece of gematria around it that seemed to refer to April 10, the last day of the writing of Liber Legis.
As George Harrison said, "it's been done"; every possible combination of Tarot turmp, Herbrew letter, Tree-of-Life path and Zodiacal sign has been explored and this thread really is dead
But while I'm about it, the apparent fault in the "symmetry" which irks me a little is that with the Justice-Strength [Adjustment-Lust] switch, we have the neatness of yodh and kaph (closed and open hand; still-point [axle?] and wheel) between the "switched" symbols; while between Star and Emperor is a whole crowd of symbols all referring to different things: Moon-Pisces; Sun; Judgement[Aeon]-Fire; World-Saturn; Fool-Air; Magician-Mercury;High Priestess-Moon; Empress-Venus.
There may be only three Zodiacal signs on each loop, but all those planets and elements make it hard to see any overall symmetry.
OP
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@Oliver P said
"But while I'm about it, the apparent fault in the "symmetry" which irks me a little is that with the Justice-Strength [Adjustment-Lust] switch, we have the neatness of yodh and kaph (closed and open hand; still-point [axle?] and wheel) between the "switched" symbols; while between Star and Emperor is a whole crowd of symbols all referring to different things: Moon-Pisces; Sun; Judgement[Aeon]-Fire; World-Saturn; Fool-Air; Magician-Mercury;High Priestess-Moon; Empress-Venus.
There may be only three Zodiacal signs on each loop, but all those planets and elements make it hard to see any overall symmetry."
The loop is in the wheel of the Zodiac, not in the sequence of all 22 trumps.
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On page 40 of The Book of Thoth, while discussing the revolution of the signs around Virgo and Pisces, A.C. says:
"This is a reference to a peculiar secret of the ancients which was deeply studied by Godfrey Higgins and others of his school."
Does anyone know what this "peculiar secret" is?
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Redd Fezz said
"Cool! Do you know where I can read more about Sirius. It's still a bit of a mystery to me (hehe, yes, a "Sirius Mystery")."Well... There's always The Sirius Mystery. Also, R.H. Allen's Star Names and miscellaneous scattered writings of Cyril Fagan."
Also check out PKD's VALIS and RAW's Cosmic Trigger Vol. I.
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This might be stating the obvious, but there are some interesting things that happen when you align the Thoth deck to the Atbash Cipher.
(For example, Tzaddi and Heh are opposite each other on the Atbash Cipher)
Here are some superficial little notes I jotted down a couple years back about it
[lashtal dot com/nuke/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-1770.phtml] -
According to Paul Foster Case, "In all ancient copies of the Book of Formation (Sepher Yetzirah), the planetary attributions to the double letters are purposely mixed, in order to mislead uninitiated readers into whose hands the book might fall. The correct attributions were reserved for mouth-to-ear instruction."
Likewise, Eliphas Levi (as acknowledged by Case and Crowley) deliberately mixed the astro-alphanumerical attributions to the Tarot Trumps.
Also, the Golden Dawn kept the true attributions secret for their members of the Practicus grade, whilst exoterically promulgating incorrect information.Is it not possible that this practice has continued, that this whole Double Loop in the Zodiac issue is a "blind" with the correct attributions reserved for mouth-to-ear transmission?
To put it another way, has Crowley poured the castor oil of confusion into the tea-urn of the Tarot? -
The fish-hook is the Aquarian man captured by the preceding Christ-Pisces in relation to the future sunrise over the equinox into the House of Aries, the new Emperor. Offcourse it is much more complex than that, but Crowley's words concern the new paradigm of Man. Aquarus, Pisces and Aries play pivotal roles.
The paradox is in the retrograde motion of 0 degree Aries equinox sunrise from the first degrees of Pisces into the last degrees of sign Aquarius.Hidden in this paradox is the mind bending problem of the path forwards to enlightenment, the birth of the new emperor man in the first house of Aries; and meanwhile regressing backwards from the last sign into the eleventh: the waterbearer.
Which, by the way, uncovers the answer to the sphinx's riddle. The backside of this monument points almost to the lion and its face will be illuminated by the sunrise in the last degrees of Aquariuas, which then are by our understanding the first degrees in this sign. The Emperor, house of Aries, the firstborn, occupied nowadays by the fish hook which is the border between old Fish and new Water Bearer.
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93,
"When Crowley declares that Tzaddi is not the star, we immediately grasp that he means the opposite: Tzaddi is indeed the Star."
It wasn't Aleister Crowley who said it, though. And there is zero logic in your statement, but I hesitate to go in that direction....
93 93/93,
Edward -
@Edward Mason said
"And there is zero logic in your statement"
Presumably he's implying that its a blind. Waites wrote a dreary little book on the Tarot that was full of them..
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If I'm understanding the above, there's a suggestion that Leo, in terms of the great year, is essentially wintertime, also analogous to nighttime when people are sleeping. Interesting thought.
Ayin fits the pattern as well, being the eye at the top of the pyramid, the peak of the great year. -
@JNV33 said
"If I'm understanding the above, there's a suggestion that Leo, in terms of the great year, is essentially wintertime, also analogous to nighttime when people are sleeping. Interesting thought.
Ayin fits the pattern as well, being the eye at the top of the pyramid, the peak of the great year."
Getting this from... Now, the Full Moon in Leo is a wintertime event (in the northern hemisphere), and the Sun is in Leo during southern hemisphere winter... but otherwise, no, that wouldn't be true.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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Getting this from... "I was trying to understand what Thalassos was saying, and having some fun with the idea.
Here's what I think he was saying: the "Great Year" has seasons that correspond to the annual seasons, except the solstice points (from a northern hemisphere perspective) are opposite, similar to how the tenth house is the brightest time of the day while Capricorn is the darkest time of the year. The idea of a summer solstice (at the beginning of the age of Capricorn?) in the "Great Year" is an interesting thought.
But yeah, entirely speculative fun.