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true love

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Magick
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  • B bethata418

    93

    i have told lovers before this, that my holy guardian angel has chose them to be a vessel of my angels love to me. that the emotions i feel towards them, is really on a plane that can not really completely be understood, is emotions that me and my angel are exchanging and my lover is only a medium of this exchange. the emotions are tiphareth(heart) heaven, and the sexual pleasure is the lower, malkuth/ earth. so that my lover has become a palace in where heaven and earth is combined...... i being her and she/lover the vessel of my angel heaven. the VAV and final HEH in union. there is much more qabalistic symbolism that can be found within this symbolism, or at least i have found.

    also this goes back to ancient egypt where people would go to a holy whore in order to experience the bliss of god. this was not a whore house but a holy temple they went unto. i wonder what joys they acaully experienced, did they only experience the lesser love with these holy whores of sex, or did they acaully for a moment in time fall in love, and with in that love experience the love of there god.

    any opinions?????

    93s

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    Jim Eshelman
    wrote on last edited by
    #18

    There are, of course, different way to understand the dove-serpent symbolism; but the initiated interpretation Soror Meral gave me is exactly the opposite of my initial instinct.

    My instinct was to regard the dove as spiritualized and the serpent as carnal. She taught me that the dove is that which descends - Hadit dropping down his head - and the serpent is that which ascends - the rising, spiritualized kundalini, Hadit lifting up his head to Nuit.

    Again, I admit that different people can look at this differently, just thought I'd pass along the teaching.

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    • B bethata418

      93

      i have told lovers before this, that my holy guardian angel has chose them to be a vessel of my angels love to me. that the emotions i feel towards them, is really on a plane that can not really completely be understood, is emotions that me and my angel are exchanging and my lover is only a medium of this exchange. the emotions are tiphareth(heart) heaven, and the sexual pleasure is the lower, malkuth/ earth. so that my lover has become a palace in where heaven and earth is combined...... i being her and she/lover the vessel of my angel heaven. the VAV and final HEH in union. there is much more qabalistic symbolism that can be found within this symbolism, or at least i have found.

      also this goes back to ancient egypt where people would go to a holy whore in order to experience the bliss of god. this was not a whore house but a holy temple they went unto. i wonder what joys they acaully experienced, did they only experience the lesser love with these holy whores of sex, or did they acaully for a moment in time fall in love, and with in that love experience the love of there god.

      any opinions?????

      93s

      A Offline
      A Offline
      Al-Shariyf
      wrote on last edited by
      #19

      93,
      Thanks for that interp Jim. It seems a similar to what you were saying El, but now I have another question (and I apologize if I am being pesty or even beating a dead horse) but now it seems that the roles have been reversed. If I'm permitted to ask (or, if I am permitted to recieve an answer rather) does the dove have something to do with Nuit?

      93 93/93
      Shariyf

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      • B bethata418

        93

        i have told lovers before this, that my holy guardian angel has chose them to be a vessel of my angels love to me. that the emotions i feel towards them, is really on a plane that can not really completely be understood, is emotions that me and my angel are exchanging and my lover is only a medium of this exchange. the emotions are tiphareth(heart) heaven, and the sexual pleasure is the lower, malkuth/ earth. so that my lover has become a palace in where heaven and earth is combined...... i being her and she/lover the vessel of my angel heaven. the VAV and final HEH in union. there is much more qabalistic symbolism that can be found within this symbolism, or at least i have found.

        also this goes back to ancient egypt where people would go to a holy whore in order to experience the bliss of god. this was not a whore house but a holy temple they went unto. i wonder what joys they acaully experienced, did they only experience the lesser love with these holy whores of sex, or did they acaully for a moment in time fall in love, and with in that love experience the love of there god.

        any opinions?????

        93s

        C Offline
        C Offline
        Chris Hanlon
        wrote on last edited by
        #20

        "" She taught me that the dove is that which descends - Hadit dropping down his head - and the serpent is that which ascends - the rising, spiritualized kundalini, Hadit lifting up his head to Nuit.""

        Thanks, Jim. Very beautiful image. Love.
        In L.V.X.,
        chrys333

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        • B bethata418

          93

          i have told lovers before this, that my holy guardian angel has chose them to be a vessel of my angels love to me. that the emotions i feel towards them, is really on a plane that can not really completely be understood, is emotions that me and my angel are exchanging and my lover is only a medium of this exchange. the emotions are tiphareth(heart) heaven, and the sexual pleasure is the lower, malkuth/ earth. so that my lover has become a palace in where heaven and earth is combined...... i being her and she/lover the vessel of my angel heaven. the VAV and final HEH in union. there is much more qabalistic symbolism that can be found within this symbolism, or at least i have found.

          also this goes back to ancient egypt where people would go to a holy whore in order to experience the bliss of god. this was not a whore house but a holy temple they went unto. i wonder what joys they acaully experienced, did they only experience the lesser love with these holy whores of sex, or did they acaully for a moment in time fall in love, and with in that love experience the love of there god.

          any opinions?????

          93s

          J Offline
          J Offline
          Jim Eshelman
          wrote on last edited by
          #21

          @Ra-Imhotep said

          "does the dove have something to do with Nuit?"

          The dove is the traditional bird of Venus/Aprhrodite, and the descending dove is a Christian symbol of the Holy Ghost - which often (but not universally) is regarded as feminine (probably from a Christian residuum of the Jewish doctrine of the Shekinah).

          But Crowley was equally taken with Catullus' poetic equation of the dove with the phallus.

          If we take the simple up-down sequence - Hadit "lifting up his head" unto Nuit in the raising of kundalini, and "dropping down his head and shooting forth venom" in physical sexual orgasm, then the dove, as "that which drops down," becomes the sybol not of the rarified spiritual aspect but, rather, of the most physical expression. And, in fact, in the Vision & the Voice and the Gnostic Mass, the moment of orgasm is singled by the onomatapoetic sound of a dove, hriliu.

          A dove arguably represents sexual fertility in other contexts that often are interpreted more astractly but, in fact, seem to be quite physical and actual. One is the moment of Jesus' conception within Mary. Another is the symbol of new life and promise of prosperity of the dove returning to Noah with a sign of new growth.

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          • B bethata418

            93

            i have told lovers before this, that my holy guardian angel has chose them to be a vessel of my angels love to me. that the emotions i feel towards them, is really on a plane that can not really completely be understood, is emotions that me and my angel are exchanging and my lover is only a medium of this exchange. the emotions are tiphareth(heart) heaven, and the sexual pleasure is the lower, malkuth/ earth. so that my lover has become a palace in where heaven and earth is combined...... i being her and she/lover the vessel of my angel heaven. the VAV and final HEH in union. there is much more qabalistic symbolism that can be found within this symbolism, or at least i have found.

            also this goes back to ancient egypt where people would go to a holy whore in order to experience the bliss of god. this was not a whore house but a holy temple they went unto. i wonder what joys they acaully experienced, did they only experience the lesser love with these holy whores of sex, or did they acaully for a moment in time fall in love, and with in that love experience the love of there god.

            any opinions?????

            93s

            A Offline
            A Offline
            Al-Shariyf
            wrote on last edited by
            #22

            Thanks a lot Jim. I felt something there but just couldn't get a handle on it.

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            • B bethata418

              93

              i have told lovers before this, that my holy guardian angel has chose them to be a vessel of my angels love to me. that the emotions i feel towards them, is really on a plane that can not really completely be understood, is emotions that me and my angel are exchanging and my lover is only a medium of this exchange. the emotions are tiphareth(heart) heaven, and the sexual pleasure is the lower, malkuth/ earth. so that my lover has become a palace in where heaven and earth is combined...... i being her and she/lover the vessel of my angel heaven. the VAV and final HEH in union. there is much more qabalistic symbolism that can be found within this symbolism, or at least i have found.

              also this goes back to ancient egypt where people would go to a holy whore in order to experience the bliss of god. this was not a whore house but a holy temple they went unto. i wonder what joys they acaully experienced, did they only experience the lesser love with these holy whores of sex, or did they acaully for a moment in time fall in love, and with in that love experience the love of there god.

              any opinions?????

              93s

              S Offline
              S Offline
              Steven Cranmer
              wrote on last edited by
              #23

              @Jim Eshelman said

              "She taught me that the dove is that which descends - Hadit dropping down his head - and the serpent is that which ascends - the rising, spiritualized kundalini, Hadit lifting up his head to Nuit."

              Let me add my voice of thanks to the chorus for this, too. A neat insight. In some ways, does this reflect in the difference in symbolism between the OTO and the TOT lamens? (A scarab is not a snake, of course, but it's still ascending...)

              It also brings to mind that infamous chapter of The Book of Lies...

              "This is the Holy Hexagram.
              Plunge from the height, O God, and interlock with Man!
              Plunge from the height, O Man, and interlock with Beast!
              The Red Triangle is the descending tongue of grace; the Blue Triangle is the ascending tongue of prayer"

              It's a chicken-and-the-egg problem, isn't it? (no pun intended!) You need both! 😄

              Finally, T. S. Eliot's Four Quartets is just chock full of descending doves, tongues of flame, tons of sentiment-free Agape... and the darn thing ends with

              " And all shall be well and
              All manner of things shall be well
              When the tongues of flame are infolded
              Into the crowned knot of fire
              And the fire and the rose are one."

              😱

              I apologize if I've strayed too far from the main topic of this thread. I hope it's interesting to see how these ideas crop up elsewhere.

              Steve

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              • B bethata418

                93

                i have told lovers before this, that my holy guardian angel has chose them to be a vessel of my angels love to me. that the emotions i feel towards them, is really on a plane that can not really completely be understood, is emotions that me and my angel are exchanging and my lover is only a medium of this exchange. the emotions are tiphareth(heart) heaven, and the sexual pleasure is the lower, malkuth/ earth. so that my lover has become a palace in where heaven and earth is combined...... i being her and she/lover the vessel of my angel heaven. the VAV and final HEH in union. there is much more qabalistic symbolism that can be found within this symbolism, or at least i have found.

                also this goes back to ancient egypt where people would go to a holy whore in order to experience the bliss of god. this was not a whore house but a holy temple they went unto. i wonder what joys they acaully experienced, did they only experience the lesser love with these holy whores of sex, or did they acaully for a moment in time fall in love, and with in that love experience the love of there god.

                any opinions?????

                93s

                H Offline
                H Offline
                Hoornet
                wrote on last edited by
                #24

                @Jim Eshelman said

                "What consequences did this have (if any) on the long-term progress of your relationship(s)?"

                I was thinking the same 😄

                About 10 yrs ago one of my fellow Travelers said the same to his lover, and she demanded that when they have sex, he must think only of her, otherwise they don't do it 😄

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                • B bethata418

                  93

                  i have told lovers before this, that my holy guardian angel has chose them to be a vessel of my angels love to me. that the emotions i feel towards them, is really on a plane that can not really completely be understood, is emotions that me and my angel are exchanging and my lover is only a medium of this exchange. the emotions are tiphareth(heart) heaven, and the sexual pleasure is the lower, malkuth/ earth. so that my lover has become a palace in where heaven and earth is combined...... i being her and she/lover the vessel of my angel heaven. the VAV and final HEH in union. there is much more qabalistic symbolism that can be found within this symbolism, or at least i have found.

                  also this goes back to ancient egypt where people would go to a holy whore in order to experience the bliss of god. this was not a whore house but a holy temple they went unto. i wonder what joys they acaully experienced, did they only experience the lesser love with these holy whores of sex, or did they acaully for a moment in time fall in love, and with in that love experience the love of there god.

                  any opinions?????

                  93s

                  B Offline
                  B Offline
                  bethata418
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #25

                  no i have had differnet experiences when it comes to your friends lover, but with thelemites its different, i dont know if so was a thelemite. though i do not think any real attainment with ones HGA could come through having sex with a human. i only see it as training your mind to see your HGA more and more everyday, and to see it as more apart of your life.

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                  • B bethata418

                    93

                    i have told lovers before this, that my holy guardian angel has chose them to be a vessel of my angels love to me. that the emotions i feel towards them, is really on a plane that can not really completely be understood, is emotions that me and my angel are exchanging and my lover is only a medium of this exchange. the emotions are tiphareth(heart) heaven, and the sexual pleasure is the lower, malkuth/ earth. so that my lover has become a palace in where heaven and earth is combined...... i being her and she/lover the vessel of my angel heaven. the VAV and final HEH in union. there is much more qabalistic symbolism that can be found within this symbolism, or at least i have found.

                    also this goes back to ancient egypt where people would go to a holy whore in order to experience the bliss of god. this was not a whore house but a holy temple they went unto. i wonder what joys they acaully experienced, did they only experience the lesser love with these holy whores of sex, or did they acaully for a moment in time fall in love, and with in that love experience the love of there god.

                    any opinions?????

                    93s

                    S Offline
                    S Offline
                    Steven Cranmer
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #26

                    I'm left wondering if a reciprocal relationship might "really" be going on in some of these cases. Person A sees or interprets person B as an embodiment of their HGA. Person B might then get a lot out of simultaneously interpreting person A as an embodiment of their own HGA?

                    I'm reminded of Jack Parsons and Marjorie Cameron, who both came to attain in their own ways and own times, but whose connection seemed to be a major spark for the work of both. Is this a kind of ideal to work toward?

                    (By the way, I noticed that noone responded to my earlier message about TOT/OTO lamens, ch. 69 of the Book of Lies, etc. It's hard to know if either everyone is simply too busy - this being Thelemic holy season and all - or if I might have stepped into territory that is more properly discussed only within the obligated bounds of fraternity. If the latter, I apologize! As an uninitiated participant here, it's somewhat like walking through a maze with a blindfold on: one only knows about the walls after one has bumped up against one!)

                    Steve

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                    • B bethata418

                      93

                      i have told lovers before this, that my holy guardian angel has chose them to be a vessel of my angels love to me. that the emotions i feel towards them, is really on a plane that can not really completely be understood, is emotions that me and my angel are exchanging and my lover is only a medium of this exchange. the emotions are tiphareth(heart) heaven, and the sexual pleasure is the lower, malkuth/ earth. so that my lover has become a palace in where heaven and earth is combined...... i being her and she/lover the vessel of my angel heaven. the VAV and final HEH in union. there is much more qabalistic symbolism that can be found within this symbolism, or at least i have found.

                      also this goes back to ancient egypt where people would go to a holy whore in order to experience the bliss of god. this was not a whore house but a holy temple they went unto. i wonder what joys they acaully experienced, did they only experience the lesser love with these holy whores of sex, or did they acaully for a moment in time fall in love, and with in that love experience the love of there god.

                      any opinions?????

                      93s

                      A Offline
                      A Offline
                      Al-Shariyf
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #27

                      93,

                      I was just thinking about another person embodying our own HGA, and it kinda seems a little unlikely that another human being can even come close to embodying our own HGA. Perhaps, on some level in which there is two-way communication between an individual and their HGA, there is a an agreement established between the two. The purpose of this agreement is to express the conditions, premises, events, experiences etc necessary for one to grow, to achieve equilibration within oneself (if that is one's will ofcourse). So we meet the people (person) we need to meet in order to go through those experiences that are geared toward facilitating our growth if we remain open to the guidance our HGA offer's us. Our lover becomes a reflection of the conscious and unconscious parts of ourselves that we are seeking to realize within us, while remaining a seperate entity of their own individuality. Just a thought. I could be very wrong.

                      93 93/93
                      Shariyf

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