String Theory and Qabalah
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@Jim Eshelman said
"See my prior post. I think this is way too narrow a use. By Qabalah I include the whole of ceremonial magick, and especially (in the present context) Qabalistic rituals of initiation."
The Qabalah can always be stretched!
Haha, Jim. I know what you mean.@Jim Eshelman said
"That's the part I disagree with most: That it's a personal system. It can be personalized, but that's just a rendering of a universal pattern into something more personally accessible. It isn't something to make up from scratch, but something to understand sufficiently that you can start organizing all of your other perceptions into it. (The comparison to your metaphor would be: You don't make up your own Dewey Decimal System, but you do file all of the books you own according to the "universal" system.)"
Of course you can say that because the Qabalah is so sufficiently elastic -- but my point is to reduce the dogma. The TOL is Qabalah, the Tao is Qabalah, the inhale/exhale is Qabalah. But, for the most part, some dogmatic people think because Liber D says that 325 is Bartzabel, he is somewhere making sure his characteristic nature is never 324 to someone else...I think we're on the same page here? My point is that it is personal -- perception is personal -- even though there is a universal thing that exists labeled "perception". And even that is only a convenient label...blah, blah. But when a label ceases to differentiate anything, there is no use in the label. Again, saying that the Qabalah is a filing system is just as justifiable as saying that the Qabalah is EVERYTHING. My Qabalah is never your Qabalah and it's not AC's either. We don't want to evoke the DEMON CROWLEY.
@Jim Eshelman said
"In cvontext of the present conversation, I'm referring especially (though not exclusively) to the general patterns and specific implementations that form classic rituals of initiation - including elements that have been known to have specific effects for hundreds of years (or longer). These ceremonies ARE Qabalah."
Well, it could be more accurate to say that these are effective rituals of initiation are just that -- effective rituals of initiation. IT could be equally argued that Qabalah enters when we are separating the dross from the gold -- and the classics are sometimes sacred cows that we need to make hamburger out of.
@Jim Eshelman said
"That's too simple - but, yeah, things along that line.
I am convinced that it is a set of specific patterns that have the key effect - patterns that resonate with, and therefore trigger, patterns latent in the genetic code. At present, we don't have ways of mapping this except by empirical observation of what interlocking sets of patterns produce the desired set of effects. The intensity, consistency, and trueness with which these patterns are delivered determines the intensity of the impact and, thus, the liklihood of persistent change.
For example, I know (from over 20 years of observation) that the specific interlocking pattern of rituals that form Temple of Thelema's First Order do reliably trigger a set of changes that appear like mutations - they are that dramatic. Individual elements of a given ritual have only flitting effect. The pattern of an entire ritual produces decisive, discernible effects. But the real fruit is in the interlocking pattern of the whole of the set of rituals.
Now, can I prove that these are from RNA action? Not directly, no. I can only say that the effects are consistent with that type of phenomena, and are produced by circumstances that are known to sometimes cause epigenetic changes. We know how to produce these effects at will - the last 15 years of discovery in genetics simply gives the first model that explains it so thoroughly. (The effects are the unlocking of capacities within individuals that do not manifest in the base line of humanity and did not exist in the particular individuals before passing through the process. They can only realistically be described as capacities latent or potential within the human species.)"
Hell yes! I agree with all of that!
Of course it's not that simple as "I'm becoming an angel!" - but the material is Becoming the ideal via Love and Will. Exciting that we have more tools to prove it and not just flowery tomes from crusty ancients. 
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A note with or without relationship with the subject here (I think with). Here, at minute 51:00 it´s what I tell before about the computer simulation of evolution. There´s no RNA talking in here, but I think there could be a conexion or something with the subject. I know being a simple documentary, and without any cientific education, it could be simply easy to believe whatever general conceptions are conceived in documentaries and stuff of this kind. I mean, the important could be in the details, which are not bringed. Anyway, one is free to speculate: what if the RNA is simply the organic life mode of organization for an unique kind of process of evolution in nature, which is been observed in mathematical processes around the nature like that ones in chaos/systems theory? Just theorizing wondering.
www.dailymotion.com/video/xpxj1b_the-secret-life-of-chaos_tech#.UNBAUaz0Qwo
About the Qabalah, I think it´s far more a method for unify right and left sides of the brain for an aproaching to the thing, not only a rational steril research like could be some sorts of scientific approachments, but a far more really skepticall point of view.
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To throw something into the mix:
The currently accepted String Theory model is called M-10
It implies 10 spacial dimensions and 1 time dimension
I say imply, as according to those on the 'front lines' of String Theory that is what the math is telling them
At least, those are the mathematical structures which appear best at modeling observationAn important point is that a single time dimension is used as the modeling of two or more is extremely complex.
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@Uni_Verse said
"An important point is that a single time dimension is used as the modeling of two or more is extremely complex."
Are you implying that using a single time dimension is a weakness with this theory?
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@Pattana Gita said
"Why shouldn't time be different - perhaps not even extant in other universes?"
I'd like to hear a proposal. Different how?
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@Pattana Gita said
"Time as a closed loop system instead of an open ended system - for instance."
Does this mean that all points on the closed loop are happening simultaneously? If so, it is not really time at all, put a multitude of fixed points? I don't know -- I'm asking.
A closed loop system presupposes how many dimensions? -- I don't really understand when people talk about other dimensions. Generally, we have space-time and the applicable perception isolated to this "dimension". To clarify, are we considering space-time a dimension in this case?
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@Pattana Gita said
"- but there's a pretty good youtube video that seems to explain it. I'll have to think a bit more about how a closed time loop universe would be like."
I appreciate the video -- but I find creationism to be just as plausible...and possibly just as useful?
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@Pattana Gita said
"4) The movement and interaction between energy and gravity in spacetime and especially in the locality of matter created proto-thought and proto-mind."
Interesting. Can you further explain proto-thought and proto-mind as related to energy and gravity? And I don't mean the biomechanics (e.g. Orch-OR model, etc.
) -- are we talking the first models of awareness-of-self/self-consciousness? I guess it would be helpful to know how you define consciousness in the material plane, since that would refer to a energy/gravity portion of proto-thought/mind? Is this awareness/recognition of self or something more/less limited?@Pattana Gita said
"5) The earth had the perfect conditions for this consciousness to enter into matter and produced living beings here. i.e - quantum switching proteins were possible and could be evolved by the original mind."
Interesting. Please elaborate on "original mind". Is this like the "unmoved mover"?
I like your model and thanks for sharing it. I use something similar sometimes -- for me, it ceases to be as effective as a useable paradigm when it becomes too much like the macrocosm dictating to the microcosm -- which seems to be the running thread in all origination stories. But the creationism story definitely works with the linear time model -- which also seems to fit with reincarnation theories, etc.
The mind (in an extremely rough summation of my experience) oscillates from a quasi-creationism mythos -- free-falling through any given phenomenon (in the presence of an "Overmind") to a more solipsistic view of the world, where the world is created by the perceiver -- and this is fed back into the perception. There is a smooth point also, where mind is blotted out. Depends on the energy being worked with at the time, I guess...
Mind is a disease of semen.
All that a man is or may be is hidden therein.
Bodily functions are parts of the machine; silent, unless in dis-ease.
This "I" persisteth not, posteth not through generations, changeth momently, finally is dead.
Therefore is man only himself when lost to himself in The Charioting.There is no real belief in either of these models -- they only seem to be plausible for a time. And there is an ever-growing experience that Change is Stability. And Silence is quite Golden.
I do see a relation between health and attitude of people with a more "passive" model and those with an "active" model, and the favortism shown to one model over the other. But that's a completely different topic, huh?
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@Frater 639 said
"Are you implying that using a single time dimension is a weakness with this theory?"
No, my thoughts are more along the lines that a single direction time progression is required for coherent consciousness.
While I may propose, in many ways believe, time is non-linear in nature, at the same time I feel that linear time is necessary for most entities to retain a sense of Self.
If you were who you currently are in this moment, then the next were your incarnation from 50,000 years ago, then an incarnation from a 1,000 years in the future (from the "starting point"), the discrepancy in the consciousness and subsequent physiological make up of ones incarnation could be maddening if any sense of Self can even be retained.
At the same time:
@Pattana Gita said
"
Why shouldn't time be different - perhaps not even extant in other universes?
"The implication, as I see it, being that if anything the M-10 Theory models the universe as we occupy it, not the universe as it is or some other universe whose conception if entirely foreign to us.
If anyone ever opens up a portal to another dimension, do not be the first to step through...
As the "laws" which hold you together in this one may not apply
@Pattana Gita said
"2) Matter coalesced into planets and moon and suns and asteroids and the whole sheabang of astronomical phenomena out there."
Something to take account of is that Suns would have had to form and Super-Nova before certain planets, most especially the Earth, in order for them to contain raw materials required to formulate life as we know it.
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@Uni_Verse said
"No, my thoughts are more along the lines that a single direction time progression is required for coherent consciousness.While I may propose, in many ways believe, time is non-linear in nature, at the same time I feel that linear time is necessary for most entities to retain a sense of Self.If you were who you currently are in this moment, then the next were your incarnation from 50,000 years ago, then an incarnation from a 1,000 years in the future (from the "starting point"), the discrepancy in the consciousness and subsequent physiological make up of ones incarnation could be maddening if any sense of Self can even be retained. "
Agreed. It seems to make sense that it is both. Bringing it back to quantum theory -- either being a field or a point. Depending if we're Nuit or Hadit, "I" or "Not-I", etc.
It is in the perspective -- and the conjoining of the dichotomy to grow in a given direction.