Vampirism & Thelema
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@Jonathan said
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for the sake of argument, the theory presented by most modern "spiritual or psychic vampires" would be that for some reason they cannot process this infinte universal life force directly... or they have some sort of chakra imbalance, causing them to have to learn alternative ways of getting that energy/prana... the reason for this is varied but i've heard the explanation of different soul types, certain things in past lifes, and others..
"There are other options, such as looking for a way to process the life force directly, rectify the imbalance.. etcetera. Someone who is addicted to a drug can keep taking the drug or take measures to stop its use.
@Jonathan said
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stealing? who's stealing? life force is life force... we don't own it... if you are doing things that would cause your life force to be more intense or vibrating at a higher frequency then the average human then i'm sure you could either easily stop someone from siphoning a bit off your aura or have it quickly replenished anyway....
"If you do not own it, and I do not own it - where does it come in that you can take it? If you are a vampire, then you would be under the impression that you require the life force of another person to continue living. Right there, by the vampire, a distinction has been made between whose life force is whoms. To then continue on and take the life force, without giving notice to the other person, falls under the definition of "stealing."
@Jonathan said
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p.s. - all of you thelemites judging the morality of vampirism ARE all vegans right?? seriously now...
"THE MEAT EATERS ARE NEXT! Muahahaha!
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Mr Eshelman makes a very im portant point in asking if Fallen Angel is prepared to be called a leech rather than a vampire.
The image of the Byronic vampire is less than 200 years old and unrelated to any previous use of the term. If the attraction is to this image it is an ego massage.
To speak of "Tibetan psychic vampirism" is to perpetuate the modern urban legend that vampirism is a worldwide legendar phenomenon. It is not. the use of the term "vampirism" for anything other than a blood-sucking reanimated corpse is an attempt to latch on to the Byronic image, usually in attempt to find for that two factual pages in books called things like "The Compleat Encyclopedia of Vampires".
Unless Fallen Angel is a reanimated corpse he is not a vampire, and most of his symptoms sound typical of the usual Goth diet, try seeing a dietician.
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I am by no means talking about Byronic/Anne Rice vampires here.. what I am talking about is the Archtype of the Vampire that could be used to point to other psychic/magickal areas of exploration and possibly a method of initiation.
and in this exploration, the defining principles seem to be a compulsion or hunger to move energy from another persons subtle body to the person with said hunger... for whatever reason. By doing so the "vampire" or "leach" hopefully would learn to put that psychic energy to use.
and the Tibetans did have their spiritual Vampires. They called them Heruka (which meant Blood Drinkers) and they were known as Wrathful Dieties, but were enlightened beings in Vajrayana Buddhism.
The opinions and judgements on that in and of itself I find a bit disturbingly close minded coming from Thelemites who believe in the Law of Thelema.
And until you stop using all animal products, your just as much a predator as I am. The fact is, life must consume life to live.
and no where in the conversation did I ever claim to be any sort of Anne Rice or Byronic mythological Vampire. Those intiated into certain Thelemic Sex Magick practices probably practice that type of Vampirism a lot more than I do!
but I suppose we could go back to discussions of Evoking Demons and Angels to visible appearance, traveling out of bodies to other realms and dimensions, various methods of breath control and the repetition of names somebody decided had power to create the ability to have Knowledge and Conversation with a Superior Being that is actually Yourself but not totally You... but upon experiencing it you will move to another stage of human evolution.
You do realize that to the outside observer, such things sound much more insane and ridiculous to the un-initiate than the idea that someone might have the compulsion to move energy into their subtle body using other methods then the act of eating and drinking. (foods and liquids) for whatever reason...
just as you tell that person that "There are other options, such as looking for a way to process the life force directly, rectify the imbalance.. etcetera. Someone who is addicted to a drug can keep taking the drug or take measures to stop its use. " I could very well tell you to stop all the Liber Resh's and Pentagram Rituals your doing and go get some therapy and read a few Tony Robbins books.. (not bashing those practices of course, I do them too.. just making a point)
Your taking an animal (or plants) lifeforce to live... perhaps the young vampire feels he is doing the same yet with energy. Perhaps the trained vampire is simply moving lifeforce without harming anybody to assist in his own personal evolution. Who are we to say, unless we ourselves are of that condition which some call "Vampire" (and perhaps others call Heruka hehe). Haven't met a so called "psychic vampire" yet that has claimed to drain someone's life force to deeply that the person died. I actually question if that would even be possible...
Just adding my opinions here as I am a Thelemite, but I've also studied the subject and have been initiated into Traditions that actually worked with the stuff and when people start saying "oh thats ridiculous!" "how can you take that seriously!" let me remind you of the type of board you are on... seriously its like saying "oh yeah, Mage the roleplaying game is real! you just have to understand you can't really throw fireballs! but Vampires? what a crock..."
(and yes every culture in the world has had vampire myths... I personally believe that like many things in mythology, it points to real truths)
there is a lot of b.s. out there really.. but lets not ridicule other traditions just b/c Crowley never taught it. (well other than that 8th degree thing). I don't think he taught Spare's methods of sigilization either, but I have found it to be quite effective IN EXPERIENCE!
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This thread has wandered more and more into a general vampirism discussion. Please stay on topic. Please constrain all further discussion on this thread to addressing this individual's specific question and his subsequent elaboration of the point.
Specifically, he says he is something he terms a "psychic vampire," which he here (and in subsequent posts) defines. He wants to know how his specific circumstances / practices / etc. will affect him in the long run in the practice of Thelemic rituals and his stiving for the K&C of his HGA. He asks for thoughts and/or advice on this.
If you aren't answering him on this and immediately related points, don't post here.
If you want to talk about other subjects, start a different thread. - I guess I'm going to have to start imposing more on-topic thread discipline here because this has just been going all over the map.
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@sethur said
"Mr Eshelman makes a very im portant point in asking if Fallen Angel is prepared to be called a leech rather than a vampire.
The image of the Byronic vampire is less than 200 years old and unrelated to any previous use of the term. If the attraction is to this image it is an ego massage.
To speak of "Tibetan psychic vampirism" is to perpetuate the modern urban legend that vampirism is a worldwide legendar phenomenon. It is not. the use of the term "vampirism" for anything other than a blood-sucking reanimated corpse is an attempt to latch on to the Byronic image, usually in attempt to find for that two factual pages in books called things like "The Compleat Encyclopedia of Vampires".
Unless Fallen Angel is a reanimated corpse he is not a vampire, and most of his symptoms sound typical of the usual Goth diet, try seeing a dietician."
LOL, vampires are reanimated corpes'? -
93 Fallen Angle,
From reading your posts, if you are not physically healthy, physical health should be your first concern. Seriously. The reason I am saying this is because I found that if i did the LBRP & the Middle Pillar ritual more than twice a day that not only did I become very charged, I became stressed. There is a *Physical Pressure *involved, not to mention it charged the good, the bad & the ugly in my subconscious mind.
I have also read somewhere in one of Dion Fortune books that God is pressure! My point is this: Your physical vehicle needs to be stronger before you can get the full benefit of these types of practices. This should be your first goal IMHO.Now for the K&C of your HGA, I would recommend spending some quiet time everyday with ATU-14 ART or a Rider/Wait style card 14-Temperance, both cards are pictures of the HGA. Some quiet time every day with these images will take you far IMHO.
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@Ankh said
"93 Cliff Oth,
From reading your posts, if you are not physically healthy, physical health should be your first concern. Seriously. The reason I am saying this, I found that by doing the LBRP & the Middle Pillar ritual more than twice a day not only did I become very charged, I became stressed out, there was a *Physical Pressure *involved, not to mention it charged the good, the bad & the ugly in my subconscious mind. I have also read somewhere in one of Dion Fortune books that God is pressure! My point is this: Your physical vehicle needs to be stronger before you can get the full benefit of these types and other practices. This should be your first goal.
Now for the K&C of your HGA, I would recommend spending some quiet time everyday with ATU-14 ART or a Rider/Wait style card 14-Temperance, both cards are pictures of the HGA. Some quiet time every day with these imagines will take you far IMHO."
Was this post meant for Fallen Angel? -
93,
"Cliff Oth: Was this post meant for Fallen Angel?"
My mistake. Yes, it was meant Fallen Angel.
"Fallen Angel:I have severe heart problems when I do not exchange energy on a regular basis.
My other symptoms include...
Fainting, Sensitivity to temperature, Sensitivity to Light, Migraines, Weak Immune System, Fatigue, etc.I've been diagnosed with with a sever case of Tachycardia which only goes away when I exchange energy with someone."
Fallen Angel, I would also recommend T.O.T. healing list. I don’t know any one personally with T.O.T but, I will swear by there healing list results
It can be found on T.O.T home page under contact mailto:healing@thelema.org -
@FallenAngel said
"I have severe heart problems when I do not exchange energy on a regular basis.
My other symptoms include...
Fainting, Sensitivity to temperature, Sensitivity to Light, Migraines, Weak Immune System, Fatigue, etc.I've been diagnosed with with a sever case of Tachycardia which only goes away when I exchange energy with someone."
Part of the problem may be you have a weak heart which is causing low blood pressure.
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Ok, to the original poster.
I recomend talking to people who actually know what your talking about and aren't going to consider you to be either psychically ill or sadly deluded b/c of your experiences.
House Kepharu might be a good start. Think they even have some Thelemites around there.
93 93/93
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93
93 93/93
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93
Dont worry rzk, I was not reffering to you.
Edit:
Which only goes to show what a useless comment it was in the first place...
warranted, useles none the less.93 93/93
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@KRVB MMShCh said
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@h2h said
"So what is the benefit you feel you have gained by regular drinking of catamenia?"The experience I get from the ritualistic consumption of the mingled fluids is that of force & vigor...but the effect should reflect the cause - which is the magical charge placed on the Stone before & during the operation. Force & vigor is the sigil I generally carve on my breast prior to, during & after the Bleeding.
"Kudos 616...your posts are by far the most informed in this thread.
R.E.D.