A recurrent set of numbers given during Visions.
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@gmugmble said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"the name Baphomet did originate as an AIQ BKR substitution cipher for Sophia"Clever idea, but when I try it, I get "BaphoNet"."
First, my mistake: I hurriedly quote AIQ BKR and meant ATh BSh (the Templer cipher).
It's one of those amazing 5 : 8 Golden Mean type Qabalistic formulae:
Something known predominantly because it is 8-lettered is actually 5-lettered.
BaPhVMeTh (Beth Peh Vav Mem Tav) = ShVPhYA (Shin Vav Peh Yod Aleph)
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@Jim Eshelman said
"BaPhVMeTh (Beth Peh Vav Mem Tav) = ShVPhYA (Shin Vav Peh Yod Aleph)"
I'm familiar with this fact, it is rather fascinating. Using a Greek based Latin, serially VENVS = 81 = BAPHOMET, which reverberates the 5 and 8 fibonacci numbers by number of letters.
What do you think was the motivation for the worship of Baphomet? On one level it seems the concealment of the "beauteous thing" with the "loathsome thing", but I wonder if a type of Luciferean or pan/devil worship was not present. There seems to be the worship of Venus as Lucifer symbolically as the inner lunar light, within the solar.
As remarked in another thread, the symbolism of the 7 in 6 makes its appearance in two of the Seals of the great occult organizations of Theosophy (Venus here symbolizes 7) and Freemasonry (G is the 7th letter of English):
www.ts-adyar.org/emblem.html
www.edgewoodmasons.org/edgewood-lodge-history.phThe symbolism is too voluminous to really delve into, but it does signify Nuit the Ain as the free inner self. There is also indication that the deepest self is the all self "I am above you and in you...", that the innermost is the all or outermost (the vesica pisces)--bad news for the black brothers in other words!
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@Wizardiaoan said
"What do you think was the motivation for the worship of Baphomet?"
I think it was the actual origin of the name Baphomet - that the Templars were actually Sophia-worshipping Gnostics who hid it, as a Christian sect, under a code word that they were never willing to explain honestly. Most other ideas of Baphomet are post-Templar speculations and inventions.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I think it was the actual origin of the name Baphomet - that the Templars were actually Sophia-worshipping Gnostics who hid it, as a Christian sect, under a code word that they were never willing to explain honestly. Most other ideas of Baphomet are post-Templar speculations and inventions."
I have given much thought to this & am unable to reconcile the Sophian implications of Baphomet with its Mithraic interpretations. Is there actually a common ground for these disparate concepts?
616
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What Mithraic interpretations?
I'm looking for something before the 13th C. that is explicitly about Baphomet.
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Heh, I see what you are infering that they made a mysterious word up to hide the fact they were worshipping Sophia, they surely wouldn't hide the fact by starting to worship the devil in her place! How did the rumors or myth that Baphomet was a goat god emerge then? I still wonder if there wasn't something to it to start with. The doctrine that has evolved is astonishing, Levi's image of Baphomet is psychically powerful, Crowley took his name as Magus, Book 370 was written, etc.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"What Mithraic interpretations?
I'm looking for something before the 13th C. that is explicitly about Baphomet."
I suppose I might've been off topic a bit - but I was talking about the Sophian implications of the Templaric concept of BaPhVMeTh contrasted with the Mithraic/Solar interpretation of the Thelemic concept of BAVOMIThR...I was asking if anyone had perceived any common ground between these two disparate conceptualizations of the deity.
616
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@Wizardiaoan said
"Heh, I see what you are infering that they made a mysterious word up to hide the fact they were worshipping Sophia, they surely wouldn't hide the fact by starting to worship the devil in her place! How did the rumors or myth that Baphomet was a goat god emerge then? I still wonder if there wasn't something to it to start with. The doctrine that has evolved is astonishing, Levi's image of Baphomet is psychically powerful, Crowley took his name as Magus, Book 370 was written, etc."
Well, which idea of Baphomet are we talking about? Do we mean the idea created or received by the Templars, the ones who originally and authentically worshipped this idea? Or are we talking about the occult fiction that has existed (however usefully) ever since? I don't know that we need to reconcile with modern occult fantasies and misunderstandings. If, however, that's what you intended to discuss, then that's a different matter altogether. I think we should just get clear that there's no reason to assume that there is any relationship between the Templars' idea of Baphomet and those fantasies contrived by 19th and 20th century occultiests concerning what they must have meant.
I agree they wouldn't have implied they were worshipping the devil. In fact, they didn't. They did mention the goat - what a clever ploy! - but not with a devil connotation at that time. Why do even that? Politically, there was nothing that would have made them more heretical and dangerous (and thus endangered) than for it to be known that they were Gnostics of some sort. That was what got entire regions of people utterly eradicted! Just about anything short of that and they were cool, certainly doing better.
I agree that Levi's image was powerful. In Temple of Thelema, we harvest an enormous amoutn of occult teaching from it at one stage. But there isn't much connection of it to the Templar Baphomet.
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@KRVB MMShCh said
"I suppose I might've been off topic a bit - but I was talking about the Sophian implications of the Templaric concept of BaPhVMeTh contrasted with the Mithraic/Solar interpretation of the Thelemic concept of BAVOMIThR...I was asking if anyone had perceived any common ground between these two disparate conceptualizations of the deity."
I see. By "Mithraic" you meant "solar," and the play of the name (as, kinda sorta, "Father Mithras") in the particular form Crowley was given in one vision.
Aside from whatever idea the Templars have, the idea of Baphomet which was put forth by O.T.O., and which Crowley adopted from there, was not a solar idea. It's classic alchemical Mercury in the specific sense of the perfect union of two polarized opposites. That's the most important thing to get from Levi's diagram. The O.T.O. worships and devotes itself to a particular thing that is a perfect union of two polarized opposites, as if it were (let us say) the Sun and the Moon in their union.
Speaking as one whose last motto in O.T.O. was Fra. 729 <g>, that name is every bit as lunar as solar. 729 (the value of the name you gave) is the cube of 9. It's the Yesod idea brought into three dimensions and made solid, and the Cubical Stone on which most of the most important Qabalistic teachings of the New Testament are based (see Bond & Leigh). Above all it is KHPhAS, Cephas, the name given by Jesus to Peter ("stone"), the foundation of his church.
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@RifRaf said
"During the past 3 months I have been working every other day with a different Elemental from the Enochain Watchtowers. This isn't my first time, I've done this a few times all the way through the 4 Watchtowers, salted through-out the past 3 years. There has been an explicit equation given to me during every vision I have had this time around. All Elements, and their sub-elements have shown me this set of numbers. It is 66=5. I have been trying to interpret the meaning through Gematria, and Notriaqon, but to no avail. I have assumed it may have something to do with the Hexagram, and Pentagram, but the 66 isn't two seperate sixes, it is always given as the number 66.
Any ideas here would be helpfull, even though I know this happens on a personal level some pointers or ideas couldn't hurt."
What do 66 and 5 mean to you? To me they mean the Great Work (66 = ∑(1-11)), 5 = Blazing Star, Spirit crowning Matter.
Perhaps 66 = Nu + Had = 56 + 10 (H+A+D)... and 5 = NU + HAD (5 letters).
The important thing is to examine what you are feeling and thinking when this is presented to you.
IAO131
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Sorry to digress from RifRaf's original question.
@Jim Eshelman said
"It's the Yesod idea brought into three dimensions and made solid, and the Cubical Stone on which most of the most important Qabalistic teachings of the New Testament are based (see Bond & Leigh). Above all it is KHPhAS, Cephas, the name given by Jesus to Peter ("stone"), the foundation of his church."
I always thought of Baphomet as the Rock on which the OTO was founded.
The Templars were accused of worshipping a head, some say a skull of a cat, others say the skull of Mansur Al-Hallaj who attained fana (annihilation in God). No goat that I recall.
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I chose this avatar because I think goats are cool. 73 posts
