Chorozon & the Abyss.
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@Frater I-Ness said
"Is there a direct relationship between Choronzon & the Abyss? Or else what is the relation between Choronzon and the Abyss if any?"
Choronzon is first mentioned in the diaries of Dr. John Dee: "But Coronzon (for so is the name of that mighty devil), envying man's felicity, and perceiving that the substance of man's lesser part was frail and unperfect in respect to his purer essence, began to assail man, and so prevailed." Crowley transliterated the name so that it came to 333, and was taken with the correspondence of this number, in Greek, to akolasia, "incontinence, dispersion," and akrasia, "incontinence." In other words, lack of control and concentration. (Crowley seems not to have known that, in Hebrew, this is also the value of HChShK, "the darkness," and HShChVTH, "the slaughtered.")
In magical language, Choronzon is a demon of the Abyss. In psychological language we might say, rather, that he is a representation of the psychological reality of the Abyss for one who is still locked in Ruacb-consciousness: Da'ath, which in its outer face is all knowledge in the conventional (informational) sense, becomes an expression of insanity, dispersal, obsession with an infinite number of things at once. This is the key to understanding Choronzon.
Although nearly all of the Vision of the 10th Aethyr (in Liber 418) is psychological fraud, occasionally truth sneaks through. Consider the following paragraph (but don't get stuck in it!): "Know thou that there is no Cry in the tenth Æthyr like unto the other Cries, for Choronzon is Dispersion, and cannot fix his mind upon any one thing for any length of time. Thou canst master him in argument, O talkative one; thou wast commanded, wast thou not, to talk to Choronzon? He sought not to enter the circle, or to leave the triangle, yet thou didst prate of all these things." (Some later passages reiterate this theme.)
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Please bear with me, or either highlight the error of my associations; I'm not sure whether it's because the word Choronzon bears striking similarity to "Chronometer" or some other subconscious information, but from your description also I see some kind of connection with "Choronzon" and "Time" itself, do you believe i am in error to make this association? and if so why?
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@Frater I-Ness said
"I see some kind of connection with "Choronzon" and "Time""
Or corona "crown" as if Choronzon were a false Kether.
It would be interesting to learn where the name actually came from. -
@Frater I-Ness said
"I'm not sure whether it's because the word Choronzon bears striking similarity to "Chronometer" or some other subconscious information, but from your description also I see some kind of connection with "Choronzon" and "Time" itself, do you believe i am in error to make this association? and if so why?"
I'm certain there is no etymological relationship, and you shouldn't overly emphasize that point. OTOH, time is, in many ways, a construct of the very things Choronzon represents so, sure, WTF not.
(I relate time-formulation much more specifically to A'ayin.)
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just a thought on similar words
"The chorion is one of the membranes that exists during pregnancy between the developing fetus and mother. It is formed by extraembryonic mesoderm and the two layers of trophoblast and surrounds the embryo and other membranes. The chorionic villi emerge from the chorion, invade the endometrium, and allow transfer of nutrients from maternal blood to fetal blood." wikipedia
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@Jim Eshelman said
"(I relate time-formulation much more specifically to A'ayin.)"
I wonder if you would care to elaborate on this point? Thanks
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@Frater I-Ness said
"I wonder if you would care to elaborate on this point? Thanks"
Running the risk of misquoting, since I'm going from memory (don't have my library here at work)...
The esoteric title of Atu XV is, "The Lord of the Gates of Matter : The Child of the Forces of Time." This is an important clue! A'ayin is the Path that opens from Hod to Tiphereth which (among other things) means that it's the Path showing how the intellect veils (and concurrently reveals) the actuality of things. The esoteric title of the card attributed to the Path clues us that this "intellect articulating Form that gives graspable expression to the Light" is the process that creates (or, at least, brings into mental awareness) matter and time.
And, of course, this is demonstrated in the archetype of The Devil, and given further expression by the correspondence of the Path to Capricorn, ruled by Saturn.
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What exactly happens to the Ruach in the Abyss? And what is it's post-ordeal configuration? And finally, is it possible for the ordeal of the Abyss to be reversed and if not, why not?
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@Frater I-ness said
"What exactly happens to the Ruach in the Abyss?"
Let's tweak the question to read, "upon transcending the Abyss."
It is sanctified. That is, it is wholly opened to Neshamah. A number of other phenomena are consequent to this occurrence.
It seems not to have been observed in print that the majority of the symbols that spontaneously pour forth in the K&C of the HGA are Nephesh symbols - because it is Nephesh that is full sanctified by Neshamah in that experience; and, similarly, the majority of the symbols that spontaneously pour forth in the Cross of the Abyss are Ruach symbols, and for the same relative reason.
"And what is it's post-ordeal configuration?"
I don't understand the question. Want to rephrase?
"And finally, is it possible for the ordeal of the Abyss to be reversed and if not, why not?"
I don't believe so, and Crowley wrote that the answer is no. Why not? Well, there are some genies that don't go back in their bottles, some jokes that can't be untold, some realizations that can't be unrealized. Waking up from everything you ever thought, conceived, or were willing to consider could be true about yourself and others - from the entire framework in which these are interwoven threads - doesn't give the luxury of going back to sleep in the same way.
Now, the personality continues in its own fashion and may have periods of denial about the whole thing. That's actually pretty normal for a while. But they don't last. It's just the personality's last ditch effort to continue playing like it's who you really are.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"A number of other phenomena are consequent to this occurrence."
Like what?
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"And what is it's post-ordeal configuration?"I don't understand the question. Want to rephrase?"
"Let's tweak the question to read, "upon transcending the Abyss.""
as such you've answered that part.
"Now, the personality continues in its own fashion and may have periods of denial about the whole thing. That's actually pretty normal for a while. But they don't last. It's just the personality's last ditch effort to continue playing like it's who you really are."
is it possible to define the relationship between the personality and the "True Self" at this stage?
Love under will.
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@Frater I-ness said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"A number of other phenomena are consequent to this occurrence."Like what?"
You're asking for an entire volume of advanced Qabalistic psychology. The answer would be at least half an hour to an hour of lecture time, and whatever that turned into in written time. I certainly don't have time to write such a book right now.
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"Now, the personality continues in its own fashion and may have periods of denial about the whole thing. That's actually pretty normal for a while. But they don't last. It's just the personality's last ditch effort to continue playing like it's who you really are."is it possible to define the relationship between the personality and the "True Self" at this stage?"
It's a tool. (LOL, probably always was a "tool.") The personality assumes much the same relationship to the Master that the "automatic consciousness" had to the Ruach. It will tend to continue on, by its native rules and motions, unless called upon for a particular purpose (given a job).
Hopefully it goes without saying that the degree to which the personality and its attributes have been developed and perfected prior to this point will have much to say about what kind of "magical implement" the Master has available.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Hopefully it goes without saying that the degree to which the personality and its attributes have been developed and perfected prior to this point will have much to say about what kind of "magical implement" the Master has available."
No, it doesn't go without saying actually thanks for that.
