Animal Sacrifice.
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encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761582202/devas_and_asuras.html
For definition of asura and deva.
chrys333 -
@Chris Hanlon said
"Tornado,
I, also, became ill on a vegetarian diet, and now eat meat.
Some people just aren't made to digest only vegetables, I guess. Kind of makes me think I am not sattvic enough. But, I'm not. More Asura than Deva.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333"I was just the opposite. Before I went vegan I weighed a total of 350 lb. at a height of 5'11" & had asthma so bad I couldn't even go outside or even walk for extended periods of time without having an attack. Since I have removed all animal products from my diet I have cut down considerable on the amount of medication I require & am well within the range of a healthy bmi. I get plenty of protien from mushrooms, beans, & nuts & take supplements for the nutrients I am missing such as B vitamins.
...I do not, though, think my dietary lifestyle is something from which everyone would benefit. Diet is something with which one should experiment to find what is best for their body.
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I just came across this article on goat sacrifice:
Why I Defend Goat Sacrifice
Freedom of religion doesn’t mean much if it protects only those beliefs that the government, or the general populace, decides it likes. -
@Tornado93 said
"In religions where animal sacrifice is the norm, it's also the norm to slaughter your own animals for food. So sacrificing an animal would not have been anything out of the ordinary.
It's us sheltered city folk who buy our meat already cut and wrapped in neat packages that are shocked by animal sacrifice.
But still, we humans experience empathy, and even someone who slaughters animals on a regular basis may feel emotions doing this. So making a sacrifice brings up emotions and energy.
I became anemic on a vegetarian diet, and started eating meat again several years ago. I try to stick with free-range meat as much as possible. I think it would be a good experience for me to slaughter my own meat. I haven't done that yet. I know it would be hard for me, being a city grrrrl who buys her meat in packages."
I agree with you on this point.
I would also add for those who think meat is bad better ivestigate why they think it is bad. It has to do with the omega 3 to omega 6 ratio of fatty acids that are critical to cellular life. This ratio is totally inverted from where it was 100 years ago, do to agri bussiness. Free range AND grass fed AND organic (no pesticides, herbicides, inoculations and hormones). For more on this, watch, "Future of Food" free on hulu.com.
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This is a "Persistence Hunt" of a Male Kudu, by tribesman of the San on the Kalahari Desert of Africa. Thoroughly blew my mind! This.....this is hunting. An almost transcendental means of acquiring food. The hunter performs a ritual, giving thanks to the animal at the end.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"BTW, war is as much "animal sacrifice" as is anything else; and triggering large scale mass-mind lurches into the future commonly triggers this mass shedding of blood."
Is War a Ritual Human Sacrifice?
www.paranoiamagazine.com/warritual.html -
Anyone who has read Illuminatus! or seen part 3 of Urotsukidoji should have realized that war is essentially human sacrifice. And is certainly an act of magick, thousands of lives dedicated and consecrated to the single ends of WILL of the nation. Then to be made sacred of immortal in memorials and history text books. The Life's blood of countless young men, on both sides, spilled into the cup of Babalon, in so called "self sacrifice, for God and country". War is the highest expression of the old aeon formula. The Nazi's perfected the art, sacrificing others for an end's that in not their own that is. Now in this new aeon, we strive in work a formula where the sacrifice is made for ones own ends, not made in the name of an alien WILL.
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I read a book about early warfare in ancient Greece (sorry don't remember the title, it was a while ago). The earliest wars were between city-states over small pieces of territory. The wars were held a certain time of year, and highly ritualized. Musicians stood on the side played a march while the fighting took place. Men did get killed, but as soon as it was clear which side was winning, it would stop. The losing side would flee, and it was considered dishonorable for the winners to pursue them.
Other tribal people have wars where no one gets killed. Such as "counting coup" among some native American tribes.
But then even prehistory also shows evidence of horrible cases of mass murder and genocide.
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nonfatal contests are fine when we want to see who gets to wear a hat or hold a trophy.
However when their is one well that will supply 50 people and 200 people want to drink from it, the only solution is violent. If a law of honor or decree of law is made that this 50 wins the well, no matter how high valued the other 150 people may want to be, when the thirst comes, they will kill their brothers for a quenching sip of blood.
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@Tornado93 said
"I read a book about early warfare in ancient Greece (sorry don't remember the title, it was a while ago). The earliest wars were between city-states over small pieces of territory. The wars were held a certain time of year, and highly ritualized. Musicians stood on the side played a march while the fighting took place. Men did get killed, but as soon as it was clear which side was winning, it would stop. The losing side would flee, and it was considered dishonorable for the winners to pursue them.
Other tribal people have wars where no one gets killed. Such as "counting coup" among some native American tribes.
But then even prehistory also shows evidence of horrible cases of mass murder and genocide."
this is true.... we live in a brutal and savage culture; and it's one thing that bothers me about anyone who refers to Nativist culture as "primitive" or "savage". Clearly, it is the other way around.
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Well to try to pull this back on topic, I would respect animal sacrifice if I was invited to a tradition where this was the norm; perhaps if I went to Haitian Voudou ceremony and they were sacrificing a chicken or goat.
I would not go out of my way to sacrifice an animal on my own, for a ritual.
Though, as I said, I do think it would be a good idea for me to slaughter my own food sometime; which I have never done. And I'm sure I would make a ritual out of it.
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@nderabloodredsky said
"this is true.... we live in a brutal and savage culture; and it's one thing that bothers me about anyone who refers to Nativist culture as "primitive" or "savage". Clearly, it is the other way around."
BTW, these words not be offensive if we look closely at them and see what they actually mean. "Primitive" (like "primal") just means "first," i.e., early, original, etc. "Savage" simply means "from the forests." All of the other meanings are secondary ideas we've attached to "earlier civilizations living in the forest."
OTOH I suspect your understabanble umbrage is about what someone actually meant by the words - which was probably somewhat pejorative.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@nderabloodredsky said
"this is true.... we live in a brutal and savage culture; and it's one thing that bothers me about anyone who refers to Nativist culture as "primitive" or "savage". Clearly, it is the other way around."BTW, these words not be offensive if we look closely at them and see what they actually mean. "Primitive" (like "primal") just means "first," i.e., early, original, etc. "Savage" simply means "from the forests." All of the other meanings are secondary ideas we've attached to "earlier civilizations living in the forest."
OTOH I suspect your understabanble umbrage is about what someone actually meant by the words - which was probably somewhat pejorative."
Yes, it's that and more. Same thing with the term "pagan", meaning country folk literally, but to others something nefarious at best.
You see, it's personal with me. I identify with the world tribes that have been slaughtered, bribed, and what's left, tamed and used for nefarious ends, to continue the nefarious plans of those who would enslave the entire planet!
(note: I am aware I used nefarious 3x: [Latin nefārius, from nefās, crime, transgression : ne-, not; see ne in Indo-European roots + fās, divine law; see dhē- in Indo-European roots.] they are breaking divine law!)
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It was certainly not a breaking of divine law, to displace Isis aeon tribal societies, with Osiris society, with its centralized metropolis, its ONE absolute God, to replace all other gods, its ONE single global culture to replace all the tribal customs, myths, beliefs, and unique identity, the sacrifice of all to the ONE true political rule. Certainly Christianity and most especially the Roman church did a great job of destroying the pagan tribal cultures often by fire (how many where burned literally at the stake, if not figuratively by the hands of passionate bishops). And when the superstition became eventually outlived its power, well then it simply destroyed its own husk and like a phoenix from the ashes arose anew in the form of liberal humanism and enlightenment values that culminated in the crisis of modernism. (Osiris was slain by his own shadow)
Yet as it is written "My prophet is a fool with his one one one"
Shall not the Horus child come forth from the void left in the wake of modernism and slay Seth, the shadow of Osiris, and to replace the rule of unity with that special sort of simultaneous annihilation and duality.
We can not restore the pagan tribes of the past, nor can we continue the Osiris formula of destroying (sacrificing) all than deviate from central concept of unity. Instead the new formula is we must learn to accept all things, the good, the bad and the ugly, also the just plane bizaar or incomprehensible, and turn our backs to nothing, continually synthesizing every new experience. Yet each of us shall synthesize ALL in a unique way, according to the unique WILL and perspective of the individual. And We must never stop learning, never stop synthesizing, never stop destroying ourselves that we may renew ourselves.
We can not hide in the old ways, be they Isis, Osiris, or Set, but we must not reject them either.
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@Froclown said
"It was certainly not a breaking of divine law, to displace Isis aeon tribal societies, with Osiris society, with its centralized metropolis, its ONE absolute God, to replace all other gods, its ONE single global culture to replace all the tribal customs, myths, beliefs, and unique identity, the sacrifice of all to the ONE true political rule. Certainly Christianity and most especially the Roman church did a great job of destroying the pagan tribal cultures often by fire (how many where burned literally at the stake, if not figuratively by the hands of passionate bishops). And when the superstition became eventually outlived its power, well then it simply destroyed its own husk and like a phoenix from the ashes arose anew in the form of liberal humanism and enlightenment values that culminated in the crisis of modernism. (Osiris was slain by his own shadow)
Yet as it is written "My prophet is a fool with his one one one"
Shall not the Horus child come forth from the void left in the wake of modernism and slay Seth, the shadow of Osiris, and to replace the rule of unity with that special sort of simultaneous annihilation and duality.
We can not restore the pagan tribes of the past, nor can we continue the Osiris formula of destroying (sacrificing) all than deviate from central concept of unity. Instead the new formula is we must learn to accept all things, the good, the bad and the ugly, also the just plane bizaar or incomprehensible, and turn our backs to nothing, continually synthesizing every new experience. Yet each of us shall synthesize ALL in a unique way, according to the unique WILL and perspective of the individual. And We must never stop learning, never stop synthesizing, never stop destroying ourselves that we may renew ourselves.
We can not hide in the old ways, be they Isis, Osiris, or Set, but we must not reject them either."
I'm so glad you have everything figured out; I can go rest now....
I will not tolerate people quoting religious books as justification for slaughter and slavery. Do you think you have some special exception?? Does not the comment warn against the Book?> Doesn't the Book explicitly say it's beyond your comprehension?? Doesn't Class A mean it's meant to inform on a supra-intellectual level??
Maybe you'll think twice when martial law is enacted and you're chipped.
Maybe you would think twice if you saw the unity and eternal values in world mythology. Remember, as above, so below. You can't "replace" or repress an internal "god force", it simply is .... you can either accept it or face the consequences.Lastly, how about state a single idea clearly, make your point and move on to the next point? reading your post is like watching a monkey spasmodically throw a temper in a cage. But perhaps that analogy isn't too far off the mark. Your mind is in a cage and your ego reacts. Take my advice, think for a second; think about what I am going to say to you... the matrix is real. It exists as an analogy to real life, and has been for centuries, and is intensifying rapidly. You and I are under constant psychological programming....You are simply justifying a system that bred you and trained you to think this way. If you could get away from that, you would see it.
And one more thing, when I say I take it personally, I mean it, so don't Bullsh*t me!
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Underabloodredsky, what are you blithering about.
I thought quite cleary about what I wrote, and it was perfectly consistent with the Osiris aeon to displace pagan culture with centralized world order, and it is perfectly in accord with Horus aeon divine law to re-establish to some extent the old world order but in a new way.
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@RifRaf said
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@nderabloodredsky said
"But perhaps that analogy isn't too far off the mark. Your mind is in a cage and your ego reacts.And one more thing, when I say I take it personally, I mean it, so don't Bullsh*t me!"
By the way you came at him with your above post it seems like you need to "practice what you preach" because it is apparent that your Ego is definitely functioning on an exaggerated level."
I think that's a bunch of B.S. as well.
To be be emotional is how things get done; it's certainly how magick gets done.
Also, don't defend someone who doesn't show respect.... If you read my initial post, I said I take it personally, then he went right on ahead and challenged my post directly. I laid in to him and I will lay into any one that defends slavery and death under any circumstances, but especially under the guise of religion.
What kind of person are you and what kind of community is this that let's that kind of rubbish go unchallenged? Did you read his response, he justifies "world order" and "displacing" people. Doesn't body read history?
Don't you realise that there is no more dangerous talk to human freedom than that? -
@nderabloodredsky said
"To be be emotional is how things get done; it's certainly how magick gets done. "
Emotional force - desire - yes. But not reactivity. Emotional reactivity is a foe of the magician.
BTW, I'm not saying anyone here was reactive - I didn't read those particular posts closely enough to make that judgment. I'm only commenting on the one sentence above, in and of itself.
"What kind of person are you and what kind of community is this that let's that kind of rubbish go unchallenged? Did you read his response, he justifies "world order" and "displacing" people. Doesn't body read history?
Don't you realise that there is no more dangerous talk to human freedom than that?"Speaking as site administrator, I restrict myself more than I restrict others. There are bounds that the particular individual is kept within; but also, as a counter-balance, I am more permissive with ideas I don't agree with. Every now and then, as a participant of this forum, I'd like to shut him down as totally destructive and entirely off the track of Thelema (which, usually, he is); but as administrator I don't do this because we need room for a wide range of ideas (especially those that aren't mine!).
Which means (among other things): Other forum participants need to do exactly what you're doing, and speaking up against things they think are simply wrong. If this is done intelligently, as respectfully as possible, etc., then it strengthens the forum far more than excluding the original ideas would do.
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@RifRaf said
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@nderabloodredsky said
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@RifRaf said
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@nderabloodredsky said
"But perhaps that analogy isn't too far off the mark. Your mind is in a cage and your ego reacts.And one more thing, when I say I take it personally, I mean it, so don't Bullsh*t me!"
By the way you came at him with your above post it seems like you need to "practice what you preach" because it is apparent that your Ego is definitely functioning on an exaggerated level."
I think that's a bunch of B.S. as well.
To be be emotional is how things get done; it's certainly how magick gets done.
Also, don't defend someone who doesn't show respect.... If you read my initial post, I said I take it personally, then he went right on ahead and challenged my post directly. I laid in to him and I will lay into any one that defends slavery and death under any circumstances, but especially under the guise of religion.
What kind of person are you and what kind of community is this that let's that kind of rubbish go unchallenged? Did you read his response, he justifies "world order" and "displacing" people. Doesn't body read history?
"Yes, "body" reads history. Did I ever say anywhere that I agreed with him? No. I also never said one thing about anyone being "emotional" either. I don't know where you got that idea. Lastly, even if I was "defending him" (which I wasn't) I can defend or back whoever the hell I want to, or whatever idea I please.
Displacing the Pagan culture was something which Osirian religons did, it isn't that hard to see. Justifying "world order" and "displacement" isn't always a bad thing, depending on the context. It seems like you are skimming through what he is saying and seeing words which you don't agree with and jumping to conclusions without any clear reason why. Your posts are just pointing out what problems you have with what he posted, you have yet to post a solution. Complaining is easy.
I think you missed the entire idea behind those posts."
You can certainly defend "whoever the hell" you want to, and I will certainly attack any idea that I want to.
And yours and 99% of peoples' reading of history is FALSE because it is not true; it's altered and perverted to serve the official propaganda. Real history equals truth, and that is always the first thing to be eliminated. Official religions (read=centralised), run by evil people (at least) who infiltrated and took over all instruments of power (religious, political, moral, social etc.) in order to enslave and kill pagans, (read=free worshiping, free political, free moralising, free social) people. They in turn took the those enslaved, whoever was left standing, and brainwashed their offspring into cooperating and even justifying their actions and further plans to enslave even more peoples through colonisation. So, I assert plainly and vehemently that centralised government, whether political, religious, or moral is ALWAYS bad, bad on principle, because it contradicts the rights of the INDIVIDUAL!!!
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@nderabloodredsky said
"To be be emotional is how things get done; it's certainly how magick gets done. "Emotional force - desire - yes. But not reactivity. Emotional reactivity is a foe of the magician.
BTW, I'm not saying anyone here was reactive - I didn't read those particular posts closely enough to make that judgment. I'm only commenting on the one sentence above, in and of itself.
"What kind of person are you and what kind of community is this that let's that kind of rubbish go unchallenged? Did you read his response, he justifies "world order" and "displacing" people. Doesn't body read history?
Don't you realise that there is no more dangerous talk to human freedom than that?"Speaking as site administrator, I restrict myself more than I restrict others. There are bounds that the particular individual is kept within; but also, as a counter-balance, I am more permissive with ideas I don't agree with. Every now and then, as a participant of this forum, I'd like to shut him down as totally destructive and entirely off the track of Thelema (which, usually, he is); but as administrator I don't do this because we need room for a wide range of ideas (especially those that aren't mine!).
Which means (among other things): Other forum participants need to do exactly what you're doing, and speaking up against things they think are simply wrong. If this is done intelligently, as respectfully as possible, etc., then it strengthens the forum far more than excluding the original ideas would do."
I wholly agree with not shutting down free speech, for the more common reasons, but also for even more important reasons:
I want to know who my enemies are, or at least where these illogical, irrational and destructive attitudes and assumptions are coming from so that I can confront them.
BTW, the average person will not comprehend logic, but they will comprehend emotion!
Does any body not see how "civilised" people are emotionally castrated! The argument usually is fear based, "if you don't then you are a bad person and society will be bad." Has any one bothered to check that silent assumption empirically? I was born into a "primitive" culture and they are far more humane and human, i.e. in touch with their feelings than any "civilised" man.
So have your world order, your centralised religious/political/social/moral government. It can even be "Thelema"! Hoo Ray!
Just wait for the other shoe to drop, because it won't be you who is in charge. The people who will be (and are) in charge don't care what the form is. Their only religion is, "Divide and conquer."