Elemental magick
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"Congratulations on falling into my "I am so much more enlightened than you/pompous windbag" trap."
Didn't say i was (Enlightened):roll: , nor do i think of myself that way, and i am far from it, i just read quite a bit like yourself, yes a fire is a comfortable setting to read
, after all me (being Enlightened) was YOUR assumption."Dont worry about other peoples minds..if you are bending over blindly to "Adepts", its your own choice"
BIG difference between a sheeple and one looking for accurate info on a subject or matter at hand, and once again another assumption, there is another difference between gullible and taking advice that only applies to you and tossing the rest.
"Right now, I feel more like I have to put all of my damn personal life out on a forum just to get some litterature tips...its out of proportions. After all, I didnt "order" people to put their personal input on the subject....most important was the litterature. I didnt ask for advice on whether to go practical either. So, where is your contribution to the actual subject?
""Yeah right. Last, but not least..yes, one could always be more accurate, I will take the advice. "
if you feel that way, im sorry for you, but save next time from going off topic with by spilling your own can of worms because someone asked you to be more specific, so you might want to drop
" Would love your insight on it aswell offcourse.." at the end of a question.mabye its best you stick with your wet pants and skeptical view especially since you believe skepticism and wit will protect you from what other's say.
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Limbo,
No insult intended, I was just offering my opinion on the matter. Whether you take offense or not is your "demon", not mine, so to speak.
Perhaps I misconstrued what you meant about breaking the laws of physics. If you mean manifesting something from the astral, well then that is well within the "laws" of the Universe albeit that the mechanism may not yet be known by the mainstream.
Personally I haven't done what would strictly be called "elemental magick", in the way that most lay people would think it, however I would certainly recommend a book which would be perfect for your skeptical disposition:
"Uncle Ramsey's Little Book of Demons: The positive advantage of personifying life's problems".
Ramsey Dukes is a seasoned occultist of the highest order and he is a trained scientist, hence he approaches the subject "rationally". This is not a book on how to cast a circle or invoke and banish elementals, it's a training manual in the underlying conceptual schemes behind that kind of work, which I think might just be the kind of book you would appreciate.
Of course you could supplement this with reading books on wearing robes and casting circles and invoking elementals into the triangle of art or you might just choose to "chaotically" engage in a sort of "Jungian dialogue" with them. The latter for me is quite effective, but then I'm quite an "intuitive" kind of person that can fall into mild trance states quite easily. You might think this is all in your imagination, which it might well be - although we might have to re-define the term imagination when we examine the results.
Good luck on your journey.
93 93/93
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modernPrimitive:
Yes, it is well within the laws of the universe...I agree to that there is nothing to be called supernatural as it is perfectly natural (AC). However, as earlier mentioned in here somewhere...we might think we are so free of the narrowing concepts put upon us by the society's religion..or by science, but we are not. Its so wonderful to see the concepts broken, it cant be described..but still very scary. Deep down there something is screaming its not suppose to be. Years of conditioning have made its impact. It seems to "want" to be kept out of mainstream too..if you know what I mean.
Elemental magick seem to be more common among the wiccans, I might be wrong, but they are the ones speaking of and using the natural elemental entities. I was never capable of the big interest in wiccan ways. Uncles...demons..maybe,will take a look at it. I am not exactly a skeptic....more like a rehabilitated skeptic. I am not considered totally sound.
"You might think this is all in your imagination, which it might well be - although we might have to re-define the term imagination when we examine the results"
Agreed. I dont have to mention my lack of the big experience,as it is quite obvious. However, speaking of results...have you used entities to do a job? I have done that, and I also like to think that I have done "jobs" myself with what I believe to be your definition of imagination. It felt quite different. Doing the job "yourself" is harder to be sure of....as statistically it could happen without doing anything at all, a long period of testing would be necessary. The entities (including elementals, from what I have read), move things around, can be felt and sometimes seen. Because it feels so different, I am not of the opinion of all of this being in or coming from your own mind. However, it can be an illusion. The chaos magicians are creating their own servants...so I have heard about elementals..you can create your own. I get problems blending the cards here...
Thankyou..and good luck on yours
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@Limb said
"modernPrimitive:
Yes, it is well within the laws of the universe...I agree to that there is nothing to be called supernatural as it is perfectly natural (AC). However, as earlier mentioned in here somewhere...we might think we are so free of the narrowing concepts put upon us by the society's religion..or by science, but we are not. Its so wonderful to see the concepts broken, it cant be described..but still very scary. Deep down there something is screaming its not suppose to be. Years of conditioning have made its impact. It seems to "want" to be kept out of mainstream too..if you know what I mean. "
I know exactly what you mean. After years and years of intellectually having overcome my religious upbringing, when I actually started to practice magick I would have these crazy dreams of Catholic priests scolding me! So it seems that even if we embrace an idea intellectually we still need to do the "emotional" work and tht is often the scariest part of all!
@Limb said
"Elemental magick seem to be more common among the wiccans, I might be wrong, but they are the ones speaking of and using the natural elemental entities. I was never capable of the big interest in wiccan ways. Uncles...demons..maybe,will take a look at it. I am not exactly a skeptic....more like a rehabilitated skeptic. I am not considered totally sound. "
The book is written from a rational standpoint but the goal is not to overcome one's skepticism, rather it gives practical tools, techniques, theory and "tricks of the trade" coming from someone who performed the Abramelin Operation in 1977 already. I would suggest that it would be far more insightful at least at the explanatory level than one's average wiccan elemental instruction manual. However I would get one of those kinds of books too, to see a specific "form" that this kind of magick might take. Ramey Dukes' book will open up 20 different ways you could approach this, though he doesn't necessarily suggest one specific "form", such as Ceremonial Magick, once you understand the underlying theory all "forms" of this kind of magick from the shamanic to the ceremonial to the wiccan to the "Jungian dialogue approach" will make complete "sense".
@Limb said
"Agreed. I dont have to mention my lack of the big experience,as it is quite obvious. "
Nothing to be ashamed of. We are all learning.
@Limb said
"However, speaking of results...have you used entities to do a job? I have done that, and I also like to think that I have done "jobs" myself with what I believe to be your definition of imagination. It felt quite different. Doing the job "yourself" is harder to be sure of....as statistically it could happen without doing anything at all, a long period of testing would be necessary. The entities (including elementals, from what I have read), move things around, can be felt and sometimes seen. Because it feels so different, I am not of the opinion of all of this being in or coming from your own mind. However, it can be an illusion. The chaos magicians are creating their own servants...so I have heard about elementals..you can create your own. I get problems blending the cards here..."
Yes, I've done the kind of magick you are talking about, but I used technically different methods from what could commonly be called "elemental magick" and yes things will "manifest". To be honest this is not my major concern, my work is concerned more with "self-development".
What I have noticed is say perhaps I want to stop smoking or loose weight for example (perhaps these are elements of a greater picture in say finding love for example) - instead of creating something to do this for me, I realize that I have already created such "complexes" or "neuroses" (or "personal demons" or whatever you would like to call it") which is why I smoke or am overweight in the first place. I then work to unravel that complex by magickal means and get the result I'm looking for anyway. I would suggest that it is sometime wise to hold off on creating something new and rather look at what you have already created (through the process of life itself) and why that is holding you back from what you want. Of course that's on the "personal development" side, there are of course times when we need a little help to make other kinds of things manifest.
Anyway, again, just my personal point of view on the matter.
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Excellent, will look into it. I came over an article on the internet about a magician evocating elementals to gain knowledge on different things, to help him learn. Generous creatures apparently..I loved the idea. And the goetic demons, supposedly teachers of subjects I like. Probably a pitiful waste to limit it to theoretical consumation in a sofa in front of the fire.
No problem, I have very little shame...I like to think all that is left is honesty. A wonderful everyday-katharsis
I enjoy your personal point of view, thankyou for your posts. -
I have not done elemental magick personally but I found this article to be insightful, at least from a magickal/evocation/GD perspective.
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@darrene2002 said
"I have not done elemental magick personally but I found this article to be insightful, at least from a magical/evocation/GD perspective.
www.digital-brilliance.com/kab/tobias010.htm"
Thanks for the link. The author's opening remarks are interesting:
"for we are a dying breed; day is near, and when we will be needed the most. So stay strong brothers and sisters, keep to thy ways, for the harvest is near."
I keep running across this 'harvest' meme...