A few general questions on ritual practice.
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As I said in my little intro, I have been trying to go the solo route for most of my life. This has not worked well for me, and I am instead trying to go "back to my roots", which for me is Crowley, Thelema, and A.'.A.'.-system based practice. Problem is, like many people I know, I had to figure out what all of that meant from books, experiment, and (generally) failure. Right now I am trying to get back to the basics and do it all by the book, and this has raised some old questions that I never fully resolved authoritatively, so I would like to pose them here.
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When doing general ritual (LBRP, etc), which hand should I use? In my original training it was right hand, for various symbolic purposes, but then I ran into the idea that this was just typical right-handed people writing the books for other right-handed people, and that since I was left-handed I should use my left. Does this mean I should reverse all god-forms and signs as well (LUX, NOX, etc)? This seems very difficult to reconcile all the way down, as many god-forms, mudras, and signs have significant symbolism based on left and right sides.
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Within the context of ritual tools: should one have the standard elemental tools (wand, cup, dagger, disk, lamp) plus a second magickal dagger equivalent to the athame of witchcraft? Is this just the accretion of Gardnerian witchcraft and its children? Some of the ritual documents say "wand" or "dagger", but never make it clear whether they mean the elemental tools or a general magickal sword/dagger, the rainbow/lotus wand, etc. In short, what should my tools be?
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For one starting from scratch, renouncing all prior claims to knowledge or attainment and trying his best to fix past mistakes and imbalances, what would a good daily practice be?
Thanks in advance.
Funny, if they associate the left hand sign with Chesed, and use it as a rationale for choosing the left hand version, I would instinctively think of the pillar of severity, and the concept of containment, and thus the right-hand, as a better fit.
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As I said in my little intro, I have been trying to go the solo route for most of my life. This has not worked well for me, and I am instead trying to go "back to my roots", which for me is Crowley, Thelema, and A.'.A.'.-system based practice. Problem is, like many people I know, I had to figure out what all of that meant from books, experiment, and (generally) failure. Right now I am trying to get back to the basics and do it all by the book, and this has raised some old questions that I never fully resolved authoritatively, so I would like to pose them here.
-
When doing general ritual (LBRP, etc), which hand should I use? In my original training it was right hand, for various symbolic purposes, but then I ran into the idea that this was just typical right-handed people writing the books for other right-handed people, and that since I was left-handed I should use my left. Does this mean I should reverse all god-forms and signs as well (LUX, NOX, etc)? This seems very difficult to reconcile all the way down, as many god-forms, mudras, and signs have significant symbolism based on left and right sides.
-
Within the context of ritual tools: should one have the standard elemental tools (wand, cup, dagger, disk, lamp) plus a second magickal dagger equivalent to the athame of witchcraft? Is this just the accretion of Gardnerian witchcraft and its children? Some of the ritual documents say "wand" or "dagger", but never make it clear whether they mean the elemental tools or a general magickal sword/dagger, the rainbow/lotus wand, etc. In short, what should my tools be?
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For one starting from scratch, renouncing all prior claims to knowledge or attainment and trying his best to fix past mistakes and imbalances, what would a good daily practice be?
Thanks in advance.
@AvshalomBinyamin said
"Funny, if they associate the left hand sign with Chesed, and use it as a rationale for choosing the left hand version, I would instinctively think of the pillar of severity, and the concept of containment, and thus the right-hand, as a better fit."
There's a compatible but deeper, older tradition - and one matching the yogic doctrine of nadis. It is that the left hand is lunar or watery or "passive," and the right hand is solar or fiery or "masculine."
This parallels the Chesed-Geburah polarities. It also parallels cultural prejudices against left-handedness.
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As I said in my little intro, I have been trying to go the solo route for most of my life. This has not worked well for me, and I am instead trying to go "back to my roots", which for me is Crowley, Thelema, and A.'.A.'.-system based practice. Problem is, like many people I know, I had to figure out what all of that meant from books, experiment, and (generally) failure. Right now I am trying to get back to the basics and do it all by the book, and this has raised some old questions that I never fully resolved authoritatively, so I would like to pose them here.
-
When doing general ritual (LBRP, etc), which hand should I use? In my original training it was right hand, for various symbolic purposes, but then I ran into the idea that this was just typical right-handed people writing the books for other right-handed people, and that since I was left-handed I should use my left. Does this mean I should reverse all god-forms and signs as well (LUX, NOX, etc)? This seems very difficult to reconcile all the way down, as many god-forms, mudras, and signs have significant symbolism based on left and right sides.
-
Within the context of ritual tools: should one have the standard elemental tools (wand, cup, dagger, disk, lamp) plus a second magickal dagger equivalent to the athame of witchcraft? Is this just the accretion of Gardnerian witchcraft and its children? Some of the ritual documents say "wand" or "dagger", but never make it clear whether they mean the elemental tools or a general magickal sword/dagger, the rainbow/lotus wand, etc. In short, what should my tools be?
-
For one starting from scratch, renouncing all prior claims to knowledge or attainment and trying his best to fix past mistakes and imbalances, what would a good daily practice be?
Thanks in advance.
@Jim Eshelman said
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
"Funny, if they associate the left hand sign with Chesed, and use it as a rationale for choosing the left hand version, I would instinctively think of the pillar of severity, and the concept of containment, and thus the right-hand, as a better fit."There's a compatible but deeper, older tradition - and one matching the yogic doctrine of nadis. It is that the left hand is lunar or watery or "passive," and the right hand is solar or fiery or "masculine."
This parallels the Chesed-Geburah polarities. It also parallels cultural prejudices against left-handedness."
See, there is some of my concern. As I mentioned, I am ambi...I write with my left, kick with my left, and all the "fold your arms" and "clasp your hands" tests end up with left most naturally on top. But I throw with my right, play guitar right-handed, swordplay equally well with both, can kick just as precisely with my right, and when I am lighting a charcoal for incense or something, the natural way is hold it in the left, hold fire in the right, and doing it vice-versa seems unnatural.
The thing is, I am recovering from years of being all screwed up spiritually, which included a whole bunch of LHP stuff...Setianism especially, and heavily influenced by Michale Aquino, Stephen Flowers, Don Webb, people like that. While I will not make some absolute, moralistic claim, especially about the LHP in general, which is robust in its vamachara branch, the western manifestation is corrupted, or at least corruptive to me. I know, I know, "to the pure all things are pure"...but I was not, nor am I yet, pure, and my time internalizing such negative currents has damaged me. A lot. This is one of the reasons I am holding off on applying to the A.'.A.'.. While I wish to, I feel like I am really unbalanced and...well, corrupted. I want to purify myself before approaching the order which I have spent my life looking up to. For me, the A.'.A.'. has represented so much, ever since I was eleven...I want to be worthy of it before even approaching the gate.
So while I am technically left-handed, I feel a lot of mixed feelings using my left for magick. The fact that so much of the initiated knowledge seems to back up this dichotomy of left and right just adds to my trepidation. For me, the left-hand is symbolic of the years I have just spent, since my Abra-Melin attempt went horribly awry in 2001, getting darker and darker and more and more nasty and hateful.
I still haven't resolved the issue to my satisfaction, and have a lot of mixed feelings about it.
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As I said in my little intro, I have been trying to go the solo route for most of my life. This has not worked well for me, and I am instead trying to go "back to my roots", which for me is Crowley, Thelema, and A.'.A.'.-system based practice. Problem is, like many people I know, I had to figure out what all of that meant from books, experiment, and (generally) failure. Right now I am trying to get back to the basics and do it all by the book, and this has raised some old questions that I never fully resolved authoritatively, so I would like to pose them here.
-
When doing general ritual (LBRP, etc), which hand should I use? In my original training it was right hand, for various symbolic purposes, but then I ran into the idea that this was just typical right-handed people writing the books for other right-handed people, and that since I was left-handed I should use my left. Does this mean I should reverse all god-forms and signs as well (LUX, NOX, etc)? This seems very difficult to reconcile all the way down, as many god-forms, mudras, and signs have significant symbolism based on left and right sides.
-
Within the context of ritual tools: should one have the standard elemental tools (wand, cup, dagger, disk, lamp) plus a second magickal dagger equivalent to the athame of witchcraft? Is this just the accretion of Gardnerian witchcraft and its children? Some of the ritual documents say "wand" or "dagger", but never make it clear whether they mean the elemental tools or a general magickal sword/dagger, the rainbow/lotus wand, etc. In short, what should my tools be?
-
For one starting from scratch, renouncing all prior claims to knowledge or attainment and trying his best to fix past mistakes and imbalances, what would a good daily practice be?
Thanks in advance.
thepuck,
FWIW, I am mixed dominant in much the same way as you -- I write, cook, brush my teeth, and otherwise use my right hand for fine motor skills. I play sports and naturally reach, lift, etc. with my left.
The first time I tried the LBRP I intitutively started using my right hand and have stuck with that since.
I am hardly experienced, much less talented, with regards to magick. But the results have truly exceeded any expectation that I had...and I have a feeling that it is the tip of the iceberg.
Based on this, my humble advice would be to dive right in and see what hand takes over.
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As I said in my little intro, I have been trying to go the solo route for most of my life. This has not worked well for me, and I am instead trying to go "back to my roots", which for me is Crowley, Thelema, and A.'.A.'.-system based practice. Problem is, like many people I know, I had to figure out what all of that meant from books, experiment, and (generally) failure. Right now I am trying to get back to the basics and do it all by the book, and this has raised some old questions that I never fully resolved authoritatively, so I would like to pose them here.
-
When doing general ritual (LBRP, etc), which hand should I use? In my original training it was right hand, for various symbolic purposes, but then I ran into the idea that this was just typical right-handed people writing the books for other right-handed people, and that since I was left-handed I should use my left. Does this mean I should reverse all god-forms and signs as well (LUX, NOX, etc)? This seems very difficult to reconcile all the way down, as many god-forms, mudras, and signs have significant symbolism based on left and right sides.
-
Within the context of ritual tools: should one have the standard elemental tools (wand, cup, dagger, disk, lamp) plus a second magickal dagger equivalent to the athame of witchcraft? Is this just the accretion of Gardnerian witchcraft and its children? Some of the ritual documents say "wand" or "dagger", but never make it clear whether they mean the elemental tools or a general magickal sword/dagger, the rainbow/lotus wand, etc. In short, what should my tools be?
-
For one starting from scratch, renouncing all prior claims to knowledge or attainment and trying his best to fix past mistakes and imbalances, what would a good daily practice be?
Thanks in advance.
@Uriel said
"thepuck,
FWIW, I am mixed dominant in much the same way as you -- I write, cook, brush my teeth, and otherwise use my right hand for fine motor skills. I play sports and naturally reach, lift, etc. with my left.
The first time I tried the LBRP I intitutively started using my right hand and have stuck with that since.
I am hardly experienced, much less talented, with regards to magick. But the results have truly exceeded any expectation that I had...and I have a feeling that it is the tip of the iceberg.
Based on this, my humble advice would be to dive right in and see what hand takes over."
Thing is, I am not new, and have used both hands for years, my right from when I was a kid till about 2002 and left from then to recently. My reasons for this were a switch from Thelemic and general ceremonial-based work to Left Hand Path antinomian work. My reasons for being worried about it are different and I can't exactly "dive right in and find out what works for me" 20 years after I did my first LBRP, now can I?
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As I said in my little intro, I have been trying to go the solo route for most of my life. This has not worked well for me, and I am instead trying to go "back to my roots", which for me is Crowley, Thelema, and A.'.A.'.-system based practice. Problem is, like many people I know, I had to figure out what all of that meant from books, experiment, and (generally) failure. Right now I am trying to get back to the basics and do it all by the book, and this has raised some old questions that I never fully resolved authoritatively, so I would like to pose them here.
-
When doing general ritual (LBRP, etc), which hand should I use? In my original training it was right hand, for various symbolic purposes, but then I ran into the idea that this was just typical right-handed people writing the books for other right-handed people, and that since I was left-handed I should use my left. Does this mean I should reverse all god-forms and signs as well (LUX, NOX, etc)? This seems very difficult to reconcile all the way down, as many god-forms, mudras, and signs have significant symbolism based on left and right sides.
-
Within the context of ritual tools: should one have the standard elemental tools (wand, cup, dagger, disk, lamp) plus a second magickal dagger equivalent to the athame of witchcraft? Is this just the accretion of Gardnerian witchcraft and its children? Some of the ritual documents say "wand" or "dagger", but never make it clear whether they mean the elemental tools or a general magickal sword/dagger, the rainbow/lotus wand, etc. In short, what should my tools be?
-
For one starting from scratch, renouncing all prior claims to knowledge or attainment and trying his best to fix past mistakes and imbalances, what would a good daily practice be?
Thanks in advance.
93
"So while I am technically left-handed, I feel a lot of mixed feelings using my left for magick."
"For me, the left-hand is symbolic of the years I have just spent, since my Abra-Melin attempt went horribly awry in 2001, getting darker and darker and more and more nasty and hateful. "
It sounds like you already know which hand is best for you at this time in your spiritual development. Trust that instinct.
93 93/93
A.
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As I said in my little intro, I have been trying to go the solo route for most of my life. This has not worked well for me, and I am instead trying to go "back to my roots", which for me is Crowley, Thelema, and A.'.A.'.-system based practice. Problem is, like many people I know, I had to figure out what all of that meant from books, experiment, and (generally) failure. Right now I am trying to get back to the basics and do it all by the book, and this has raised some old questions that I never fully resolved authoritatively, so I would like to pose them here.
-
When doing general ritual (LBRP, etc), which hand should I use? In my original training it was right hand, for various symbolic purposes, but then I ran into the idea that this was just typical right-handed people writing the books for other right-handed people, and that since I was left-handed I should use my left. Does this mean I should reverse all god-forms and signs as well (LUX, NOX, etc)? This seems very difficult to reconcile all the way down, as many god-forms, mudras, and signs have significant symbolism based on left and right sides.
-
Within the context of ritual tools: should one have the standard elemental tools (wand, cup, dagger, disk, lamp) plus a second magickal dagger equivalent to the athame of witchcraft? Is this just the accretion of Gardnerian witchcraft and its children? Some of the ritual documents say "wand" or "dagger", but never make it clear whether they mean the elemental tools or a general magickal sword/dagger, the rainbow/lotus wand, etc. In short, what should my tools be?
-
For one starting from scratch, renouncing all prior claims to knowledge or attainment and trying his best to fix past mistakes and imbalances, what would a good daily practice be?
Thanks in advance.
-
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As I said in my little intro, I have been trying to go the solo route for most of my life. This has not worked well for me, and I am instead trying to go "back to my roots", which for me is Crowley, Thelema, and A.'.A.'.-system based practice. Problem is, like many people I know, I had to figure out what all of that meant from books, experiment, and (generally) failure. Right now I am trying to get back to the basics and do it all by the book, and this has raised some old questions that I never fully resolved authoritatively, so I would like to pose them here.
-
When doing general ritual (LBRP, etc), which hand should I use? In my original training it was right hand, for various symbolic purposes, but then I ran into the idea that this was just typical right-handed people writing the books for other right-handed people, and that since I was left-handed I should use my left. Does this mean I should reverse all god-forms and signs as well (LUX, NOX, etc)? This seems very difficult to reconcile all the way down, as many god-forms, mudras, and signs have significant symbolism based on left and right sides.
-
Within the context of ritual tools: should one have the standard elemental tools (wand, cup, dagger, disk, lamp) plus a second magickal dagger equivalent to the athame of witchcraft? Is this just the accretion of Gardnerian witchcraft and its children? Some of the ritual documents say "wand" or "dagger", but never make it clear whether they mean the elemental tools or a general magickal sword/dagger, the rainbow/lotus wand, etc. In short, what should my tools be?
-
For one starting from scratch, renouncing all prior claims to knowledge or attainment and trying his best to fix past mistakes and imbalances, what would a good daily practice be?
Thanks in advance.
-
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As I said in my little intro, I have been trying to go the solo route for most of my life. This has not worked well for me, and I am instead trying to go "back to my roots", which for me is Crowley, Thelema, and A.'.A.'.-system based practice. Problem is, like many people I know, I had to figure out what all of that meant from books, experiment, and (generally) failure. Right now I am trying to get back to the basics and do it all by the book, and this has raised some old questions that I never fully resolved authoritatively, so I would like to pose them here.
-
When doing general ritual (LBRP, etc), which hand should I use? In my original training it was right hand, for various symbolic purposes, but then I ran into the idea that this was just typical right-handed people writing the books for other right-handed people, and that since I was left-handed I should use my left. Does this mean I should reverse all god-forms and signs as well (LUX, NOX, etc)? This seems very difficult to reconcile all the way down, as many god-forms, mudras, and signs have significant symbolism based on left and right sides.
-
Within the context of ritual tools: should one have the standard elemental tools (wand, cup, dagger, disk, lamp) plus a second magickal dagger equivalent to the athame of witchcraft? Is this just the accretion of Gardnerian witchcraft and its children? Some of the ritual documents say "wand" or "dagger", but never make it clear whether they mean the elemental tools or a general magickal sword/dagger, the rainbow/lotus wand, etc. In short, what should my tools be?
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For one starting from scratch, renouncing all prior claims to knowledge or attainment and trying his best to fix past mistakes and imbalances, what would a good daily practice be?
Thanks in advance.
Jim, thanks for your feedback again. I've been toying with the idea a bit and Fire on the right correlating with Geburah seems more intuitive for me.
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As I said in my little intro, I have been trying to go the solo route for most of my life. This has not worked well for me, and I am instead trying to go "back to my roots", which for me is Crowley, Thelema, and A.'.A.'.-system based practice. Problem is, like many people I know, I had to figure out what all of that meant from books, experiment, and (generally) failure. Right now I am trying to get back to the basics and do it all by the book, and this has raised some old questions that I never fully resolved authoritatively, so I would like to pose them here.
-
When doing general ritual (LBRP, etc), which hand should I use? In my original training it was right hand, for various symbolic purposes, but then I ran into the idea that this was just typical right-handed people writing the books for other right-handed people, and that since I was left-handed I should use my left. Does this mean I should reverse all god-forms and signs as well (LUX, NOX, etc)? This seems very difficult to reconcile all the way down, as many god-forms, mudras, and signs have significant symbolism based on left and right sides.
-
Within the context of ritual tools: should one have the standard elemental tools (wand, cup, dagger, disk, lamp) plus a second magickal dagger equivalent to the athame of witchcraft? Is this just the accretion of Gardnerian witchcraft and its children? Some of the ritual documents say "wand" or "dagger", but never make it clear whether they mean the elemental tools or a general magickal sword/dagger, the rainbow/lotus wand, etc. In short, what should my tools be?
-
For one starting from scratch, renouncing all prior claims to knowledge or attainment and trying his best to fix past mistakes and imbalances, what would a good daily practice be?
Thanks in advance.
@Jim Eshelman said
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
"Funny, if they associate the left hand sign with Chesed, and use it as a rationale for choosing the left hand version, I would instinctively think of the pillar of severity, and the concept of containment, and thus the right-hand, as a better fit."There's a compatible but deeper, older tradition - and one matching the yogic doctrine of nadis. It is that the left hand is lunar or watery or "passive," and the right hand is solar or fiery or "masculine."
This parallels the Chesed-Geburah polarities. It also parallels cultural prejudices against left-handedness."
The relation of the left hand to Chesed is communicated in Golden Dawn teachings in the fifth knowledge lecture. In the description of the microcosm the right hand is attributed to Geburah, the left to Chesed. In these relations also you find each finger is related to the Four elements and Spirit as thus:
Thumb...spirit
3rd finger...fire
index finger...water
little finger...air
and
second finger...earthThat is why the index finger of the left hand is attributed in Golden Dawn teachings as water of Chesed.
Bearing all of this in mind, one can use the fingers on whichever hand seems appropriate.
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