The Thelemic Mass
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@A Shadow said
"I pretty much agree with this. But I'd also like to argue that Crowley's rituals have particular value in part because of his own magical perspective (which happened to be a male-centric one)."
If there were sufficient development of complementary ones, then I could seriously consider this possibility... but not with the Mass. This ritual, perhaps above all others, must have equal stength of both sides of the polarity. This is the ritual that must have that (IMNSHO)!
From the beginning, Temple of Thelema made the decision that, although we most commonly regarded Aleister Crowley as the single best source of anything on Liber Legis and Thelema in general, Crowley and Thelema are not equivalent; and that, at any point that we had to choose between "the Crowley way" abnd "the Thelemic way," the latter would win. One of the places where this difference has been easiest to discern is on the topic of sexism.
"I think we could do a lot with more female-based rituals/mysticism/philosophy. I have no problems with current Magicians of both genders taking on this task, and I think it is especially necessarry for female Magicians to explore previously overlooked or un-questioned roles they may play especially in sex Magick. There are new formulae to be revealed and tested. "
I agree in principle. But it's also true that, since the majority of all power in our society still rests with men, it must be men (i.e., those actuallty in power) who must lead the way in cultural reform.
"I'm not convinced that doing away with elements of a well-constructed ritual which seems to have a specific (or several specific) purposes in mind is the way to do that. (I could be convinced otherwise, but first things first)."
I understand your point. And mostly, we have preserved what is there. But these rituals must be contextual as well. (And it does matter if the writer, in fact, understands the formulae and symbols enough to substitute equal or superior alternatives. The underlying idea is more important than the clothes that it wears.)
"So here's another question: would you argue that this revised mass achieves the same Maickal end(s) as Crowley's Mass as written? If so or if not, should it? "
Yes. Unequivocally. The central thing to be accomplished is there, and the most common spin-offs are there as well. (Although I answering this fully understanding that you and I may have different ideas on what those ends are.)
"Finally, I'd like to hear a little more about why the "OTO" clap-trap stuff that's in the GM is or isn't irrelevant to the function of the Mass (if that's not too big of a question)?"
Why would it be? One can give a "hailing sign" that hails an action without it being one disctinctly sacramentally linked to receiving a specific degree in a specific fraternity.
But we haven't thrown the Conquering Child out with the "Baph water." One set of gestures (of the Priest near the tomb) does have a symbolic value distinctive to what is happening in the ritual at that juncture. We have preserved the essential core elements of those gestures without replicating or compromising anyone's degree signs.
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
"Never knew about them, since I had never heard them named in a Gnostic Mass."
Here's one thread where our lists of saints are mentioned:
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@Jim Eshelman said
"an official O.T.O. position that "the names of female members are never disclosed" "
Where does this come from, anyway? I can't even think of a bad reason for it.
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@gmugmble said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"an official O.T.O. position that "the names of female members are never disclosed" "Where does this come from, anyway? I can't even think of a bad reason for it."
It's from the O.T.O. Manifesto in Blue Equinox.
As for why... Think of traditional protectionism of women for the many centuries leading up to and including Edwardian England.
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It's strange that Abramelin is not listed in the saints given his central importance to the A.A. system and 93 current.
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@he atlas itch said
"It's strange that Abramelin is not listed in the saints given his central importance to the A.A. system and 93 current."
Interesting point. - However, it's likely he's a fictional character and, though there are some mythic and possibly fictional characters in the list, we've tried to minimize these.
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93, Jim and All,
I'm looking forward to this document and am also considering reserving both versions of 776 1/2.
I've often been puzzled by this (almost legendary) rewrite.
93s,
Br. C.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I may find myself in New York around March the 5th. Will the Thelemic Mass be open to the public? Or, should one RSVP?
Also, what is the suggested donation for the event?
I have never been to New York, so... I am trying to gauge the time commiment and prices.Thank you
Love is the law, love under will. -
@Ankh said
"I may find myself in New York around March the 5th. Will the Thelemic Mass be open to the public? Or, should one RSVP?"
Yes, open to the public in Brooklyn. It will be on Sunday of that weekend. Other details to follow as they are finalized.
It would be great if you could be there!
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,
"Quote JAE: Yes, open to the public in Brooklyn. It will be on Sunday of that weekend. Other details to follow as they are finalized.
It would be great if you could be there!"
Thanks for the reply Jim. It’s work related so… will see.
Also, I have another question. Is there attendee participation? If so, how do you deal with someone who has never been to a Mass before, are they given a script on what to do and when?Thank you again for your time.
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@Ankh said
"Also, I have another question. Is there attendee participation? If so, how do you deal with someone who has never been to a Mass before, are they given a script on what to do and when?"
Yes, there is attendee participation and, yes, it's our responsibility to see that you're up to speedf.
This is no big deal, actually. It's the same basic approach we've used with the Mass (in various incarnations) since 1980. There is a certain amount of Deacon orientation, plus Deacon guidance and direction throughout, plus a handout for the few lines that congregation has. (Not a full script: One's eyes should be on the Mass, not in a book
)You can prepare yourself (understanding the basic idea of what congregation does) by studying any copy of Liber XV in print; but I don't think you really need to worry about the issue.