"A Thelemic Utopia"
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Just glossing over this page.
They must have drawn upon Thelemic sources to construct the Sith philosophy.
Even so much as re-constructing the brotherhood so that only the master and pupil know each other, exactly the change Crowley made in the A.'.A.'. from the old G.'.D.'. brotherhood system.
I am putting this here to show how hollywood is always on the averse side from Thelema. The Jedi are made out to be the good guys with their Osiris aeon values. While the Sith are made into satanic forces of evil.
So what you might say, but Star wars is a major cultural influence in the lives of a large portion of the population, not just the fanatics. It's not just star wars either, in all media forms they twist the Philosophy which informs Thelema and always place it with the protagonist, give him a black hat or a scar and an maniac's laugh.
You think the popular media would ever accept a Pro-Empire storyline of star wars. There have been a few episodes of star trek like that, but they were given evil goatees and defeated by the "good" universe crew.
There needs to be a transvaluation of values on the public scale. At this time we are half way and most people give up on values and prefer apathy to confusion. A strong leader displaying Aristocratic Thelemic values could bring us back from the precipice of nihilism, at least on the small scale.But first we have to banish from our lives the influence of hollywood and liberal progressivism. There is a reason why Crowley's first order at the abbey was to ban all newspapers. We would need to ban almost all popular media.
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But would not the Warriors claim their Right to Rule through the justification that Warfare is is the heart and soul of a nation and its Society?
And the Merchants would claim their Right through the justification of trade being the lifeblood of a nation.
And so on.What evidence would you be able to produce for the people of the Spiritual Right to decide their fate and rule them?
The say-so of other Mystics who qualify their own status with no evidence presentable for examination beyond their own inner-circle?
People would have the right to demand to see the Securities. Can you produce the Secret Chiefs at will for others to examine?
Without that external proof, what (in the mind of the common man whose loyalty is being demanded) separates the claims of the High Priests from those of the past of Kings etc who claim descent from Lizards or Space-Gods? -
Froclown,
A.'.A.'. and the' Sith philosophy' - as you said - have nothing in common.
the only seemingly 'similarity' is that of the structure - one-on-one relations between a student and teacher, but it's not even remotely the same.
in the A.'.A.'. only Probationers should not know each other; but this is just a practical advice for that Grade, and the reasons are clear; and you can of course socialize with whoever you will, from the Order or not. and all the aspirants are adviced from the start that ''mystery is the enemy of Truth'', so to speak openly of their connection to the Order.
that does differ in so many ways from the mentioned ''Sith order'' that the comparison is a bit absurd.
there is, of course, one superior for one aspirant, but the aspirant is 'lead' by the superior (assisted is a better word) until 5=6, after that no human guidance is necessery.
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Well, the Kings do not demand obedience and they do not continually reference their connection to the inner order as a proof of authority. The people choose to follow the kings, as his right to rule is evidently manifest in his character. Yes each caste will believe their own is the most important, that way their is not so much class warfare, as when people believe they the grass is always greener in some other better social caste.
The King whose rule comes from science is of course able to demonstrate the benefits of his rule. He need not simply appeal to authority or superstition, instead he provides evidence. If the actuality fails to meet the hypothesis the king then must try something else. This rule by science, is the basis of skinner's Walden 2, and the method of science is an important part of Thelema.
(As to sith philosophy and Thelema they have allot in common. "Stomp down the wretched and weak", "There is no ethical principle", "I want none of your faint approval or faint dispraise; I want blasphemy, murder, rape, revolution, anything bad or good, but strong.", Thelema teaches not to transcend the passions rather to bend them to the WILL. "Success is thy proof") I could go on, clearly social Darwinism informs Thelema.
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Ehh... See, I think you took a wrong turn there toward the end.
Is it possible to back up and go back to the part where you were talking about an adept going and doing his or her own thing, and I was talking about how any political edifice created couldn't be considered affiliated with the A.'.A.'. but would be considered an empty shell.
Think of it like this: if we were writing a book together, I think this is where there would be room to play. The timeless has to enter the world of time somehow, and science fiction is the canvas on which we paint our possible futures.
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yes there is allot of rhetoric about the A.'.A.'. and it's timelessness and it being non-physical chiefs etc.
Those metaphysical things simply do not exist. However, it is possible to unlock certain potentialities in the brain, which produce the effects of making symbolic connections and archetypes evident where they are not understood by those who have not "turned on" those aspects of the brain. One aspect of this state of mind is that the awareness of time is altered in strange ways, where time seems cyclical even eternal, or that there is real time and illusionary time such that one can be both in the past and the present as 2 different people.
These states can have disorienting effects on the mind. But they also open the individual to the potential awareness of subtle encoded symbols that others can not see, a new faculty. Consider the benefits of a man with one eye leading the blind. He may not understand what sight is, having just acquired it and dimly, but because he has sight he can lead the people more effectively, that is if they don't think him afflicted with a madness the cure for which is the sharpened rod.
Colin Wilson speaks of occult faculty,
It is the faculty of seeing the forms of Plato
Leary-Wilson describe it an opening the 5th-8th neuro-circuits.
Evola calls it initiation into the Hyperborean tradition
some mystics call it Ascension other Samadhi.
It has been called the key to the mysteries of the rose and cross
and the stone of the wise.
Sherlock Holmes called it Elementary, Watson called it brilliance.
Some have called it evidence of dementia praxesUnder whatever name, it is a faculty of dealing with symbols in ways that relate back into practical reality creating astonishing effects. The Clavicus of Solomon calls this the art of Magic, Crowley calls it Magick. The art, science and philosophy of the Magi, or Kings.
If we look at Mathematics, numbers are but one type of symbol which we abstract from the natural world, we manipulate the pure symbols in ways that in higher mathematics have no correlation to actual processes possible it the original physical objects. Once these calculations are completed on the pure symbols they are re-introduced to the physical world and we get near perfect predictions and results. To those who do not understand mathematics it seems miraculous that anyone could discern what the mathematician had done. So too in a culture where most are ignorant of reading, a man stares at a book intently for hours, in his minds eye he is on a great adventure, to the savage the man appears struck with an obsession he stare at leaves of paper with scribbles on them and claims to go on a spiritual journey, even more strange the man can know things about the content of boxes and where things are buried, only by staring at scribbles.
These are example of how science/magick have given people abilities that seem miraculous and help to guide those who do not have them. So much more then one would thing for the symbolic manipulations of Kabbalah, astrology, psychological archetypes, the astral plane etc. The ability to abstract information, process it according to say the Enochian tablets and the interaction with "angelic" servitors in the mind acting as a sort of co-processor or higher faculty. Then to discern truths about the natural world via this complex symbolic processing.
Is a magick working with a candle wand and dark mirror, really so different from what the mathemetician does with pencil and paper. And does not this faculty, the ability to process this type of information give one an advantage over other, a clear insight into the natural world and the methods of making predictions outside the scope of common sense and mere intuitive guess work.
The danger is getting lost in the abstraction or becoming difficult to understand, or not able to fully form your ideals in a consistent way. This can appear as madness or just like a math professor, you may appear a disorganized and confuddled genius who can't even dress himself. Confusing the planes is a danger as well as getting disconnected. The other danger is that people will not understand and believe you are in concourse with devils or that you are just crazy, and find some cure analogous to the pointed stick to cure the visions of the one eyed man mentioned before. Lobotomy was a popular practice at one time and Electro-convulsive therapy is not unheard of today. But it is typical of the Iron age (Kali yuga) that the people would kill and torture their rightful leaders. However, the establishment of Thelema and the guidance of others who have developed these faculties, should help to produce true kings as well as a social body willing to accept their rule.
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I am the peaceful warrior:
Settle scores on dance floors,
Where I eat you up;
Shit you out,
You roll and writher,
Scream and slither,
Of how you always want more
Bending bodies, tracing forms
Occult meaning relayed
By dub-step beat that playedOh shut up and listen to your heart beat!
Let that be what moves your feet
And contorts you towards,
That treasured horde,
"Why are we still thinking?" -
"The most thought provoking thought in these thought provoking times is that 'we are still not thinking," (Heidegger)
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"The most thought provoking thought in these thought provoking times is that 'we are still not thinking," (Heidegger)
"What a lovely play of words
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"yes there is allot of rhetoric about the A.'.A.'. and it's timelessness and it being non-physical chiefs etc.
Those metaphysical things simply do not exist.
"I will simply point you to the mirror, to this debate, to the Sun currently being in the constellation Gemini, as well as to your own reference to the "Kali" yuga.
"However, the establishment of Thelema and the guidance of others who have developed these faculties, should help to produce true kings as well as a social body willing to accept their rule."
Personally, I really liked how you rounded that off.
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A Meditation for Gemini:
Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?
I have no precious time at all to spend,
Nor services to do, till you require.
Nor dare I chide the world-without-end hour
Whilst I, my sovereign, watch the clock for you,
Nor think the bitterness of absence sour
When you have bid your servant once adieu;
Nor dare I question with my jealous thought
Where you may be, or your affairs suppose,
But, like a sad slave, stay and think of nought
Save, where you are how happy you make those.
So true a fool is love that in your will,
Though you do any thing, he thinks no ill.- William Shakespeare
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Here is an Idea as a way to start.
Acquire an apt complex or hotel, apts. are better.
Now, rent out these apt. to thelemites, Say O.T.O members.
Use the rent money to pay off the mortgage, then use the profits to feed back into the system.
Use them to fund a temple and masses.
Once that is taken care of, help members to get started with personal businesses
or business that makes money for the whole.
For example help fund home offices, maybe set up a lawn care company or home cleaning company
Run the business on Thelemic principles and use the profits of the business to aid the members.
Use the profits as interest free loan or grants for education, to pay the health bills of the elderly and sick,
to buy art supplies for the artists, etc.Providing each individual with what he or she needs to contribute to the whole community according to his or her Will. Thus the initial investment in the property will pay for itself with a snow ball effect of interest. (The original investments can be collected from members or by loans from outside investors who can be paid back at an interest rate).
Perhaps this camp might expand and buy more land build more houses, etc. Also it would be one local body, you could have several of these connected. The accumulative wealth, generated from several such cells could put the OTO on par with large corporation, giving a degree of political influence. It does not seem infeasible that such a net work expanded to global size, over time might become the economic match of the Roman Catholicism.
If you doubt this is possible, might I direct you to the history of a little general store called Wal-mart.
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Who decides the business? who controls the money? Who decides who get what room with what view? How will a King tell another King home to run his/her kingdom, and decide the resources or products they can contribute/produce?
Just because someone claims to be a thelemite and has gone through the degrees of say the OTO does not make them a thelemite. I have seen very unthelemic socialization within Thelemic lodges especially when one thinks they know what is best for another or a group.
I don't believe any social paradigm can accommodate Thelema, as it is a philosophic path of the individual. "Every emancipator enslaves." Just because I may be well suited to eat dirt does not mean that my brothers or sisters ought to. A Thelemic Utopia is the same as a Fascist Utopia, a Capitalist Utopia, a Democratic Utopia etc etc etc... No model can encapsulate the masses and the individual, one most be sacrificed for the other.
I can guarantee that no two Kings will have the same conclusion on what is right or even Thelemic for that matter.
Personally, I think that people are wasting to much energy on a relatively pointless topic. I hope that as much energy and thought goes into magical practice...
"As brothers fight ye!"
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@Froclown said
"Here is an Idea as a way to start.
Acquire an apt complex or hotel, apts. are better.
Now, rent out these apt. to thelemites, Say O.T.O members.
Use the rent money to pay off the mortgage, then use the profits to feed back into the system.
Use them to fund a temple and masses.
Once that is taken care of, help members to get started with personal businesses
or business that makes money for the whole.
For example help fund home offices, maybe set up a lawn care company or home cleaning company
Run the business on Thelemic principles and use the profits of the business to aid the members.
Use the profits as interest free loan or grants for education, to pay the health bills of the elderly and sick,
to buy art supplies for the artists, etc.Providing each individual with what he or she needs to contribute to the whole community according to his or her Will. Thus the initial investment in the property will pay for itself with a snow ball effect of interest. (The original investments can be collected from members or by loans from outside investors who can be paid back at an interest rate).
Perhaps this camp might expand and buy more land build more houses, etc. Also it would be one local body, you could have several of these connected. The accumulative wealth, generated from several such cells could put the OTO on par with large corporation, giving a degree of political influence. It does not seem infeasible that such a net work expanded to global size, over time might become the economic match of the Roman Catholicism.
If you doubt this is possible, might I direct you to the history of a little general store called Wal-mart."
I'm not slighting this post in any way, I just want to be clear. I need to get to work, but if I was going to try to communicate this thought/question to you quickly, I would say:
ekklesia -> Acts -> Persecution -> In Hoc Signo Vinces -> Nicea...?
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Personally, I tend to hope for something more like a "93 Theses," but I can't escape the fact that revolutionary ideas are in fact revolutionary - that particular bit of German history to which I'm alluding looking basically the same as the Roman one related above. Even Ra Hoor Khuit is the Lord of the Aeon, I can't help but believe there is such a thing as a Thelemic voice for moderation and peace.
Given, Martin Luther King's voice may not have been so readily accepted if it did not exist as the polar opposite and more preferable future reality to that of Malcolm X. There are circumstances under which the mass mind can be elevated relatively peacefully. At least that is my hope for the future.
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@Frater LA said
"Personally, I tend to hope for something more like a "93 Theses," but I can't escape the fact that revolutionary ideas are in fact revolutionary - that particular bit of German history to which I'm alluding looking basically the same as the Roman one related above. Even Ra Hoor Khuit is the Lord of the Aeon, I can't help but believe there is such a thing as a Thelemic voice for moderation and peace. ."
I think that there will be no "Thelemic" voice of moderation as RaHoor is a god of War and Vengeance. If you buy into the idea that the next Aeon will be of Ma'at then humanity will experience moderation and harmony, but until then the Crowned and Conquering Child most overcome the entropy of the "Old Gods" and the slave religions. If you have a rotten tooth you will have to experience the pain of removal or suffer and die of infection.
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Yes. And now the circle is complete...
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Dissolution into Nuit is peace
Knowledge of Hadit is suffering.
Action of Ra-hoor-Khuit is the manifest world of actuality.The world never has been and never will be at peace. It is the
continuous War of ALL against ALL.
In order to live you have to take the life of plants and animals.
In order to express your will you have to push, shove and slaughter those who get in your way.
The universe is crowded, and is set up so that to the victor go the spoils, Those who refuse to
fight are slaughtered without mercy, by those who desire the other's food, shelter, niche of social influence.There is no such thing as a free lunch. Your liberty to do your WILL is a direct result of your POWER to clear yourself a space in which to act, by might, others will always challenge you and eventually the younger and stronger will win, or the just lucky. That is the world and always will be.
"Every man is King over the circumference of his sword arm, the swords of others will set his limits"
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@Froclown said
"The world never has been and never will be at peace. It is the
continuous War of ALL against ALL. "And the big fish eat the little fish.
Mars is a fact of life and there will always be conflict on planet Earth. Utopian fantasies are just astral dreams. There is no Aeon that is coming that will lift the consciousness of the masses -- the masses must lift themselves up and so far they aren't even lifting a finger, IMHO.
Violence is ubiquitous. I was threatened with a knife and robbed in North Africa. My sister was assaulted at a bus stop and suffered injuries because she tried to hold onto her purse. Those who aren't abusing others are busy abusing themselves with drugs and/or alcohol etc. Those who aren't pursuing direct violence are busy trying to increase their POWER and violate the free will of their fellow man by forcing them to behave according to their own desires.... But these Utopian dreams are really just Power Lust on the part of those who wish to rule and laziness or cowardice on the part of those who prefer to be ruled, rather than take responsibility for creating their own reality.
If a new Aeon is coming that shifts the circumstances of this world such that conflict, negativity, etc. will be significantly reduced the masses of unprepared Souls will make a quick exit. The world is the way it is because the general level of consciousness matches and fits with these conditions. It is not because of external conditions being imposed on innocent souls by dastardly forces, it is the external conditions manifesting to match the level of consciousness of the general population.
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lol... I know, and who can argue against any of your thoughts without themselves embodying them, right?
But, sincerely...
What do the Shepherds of Hermes preach? How can I teach a person to individuate, and thus take their own Divine Rank and role in the living Body of Nuit, if I can't ever affirm their impulses to motherliness, mercy, and compassion? If I can't describe an individual's True Will in those terms, where will the mothers of the Warriors come from? How will families be made stable enough to survive and thrive without any room made for water and salt?
I'm concerned about adaptability of response. If all you have is a hammer, then, yeah, everything might as well be a nail. When it's all said and done, I need to hear a little more about some of the other tools in the psychic medicine bag of the Aeon besides Ra Hoor Khuit. Yes, a hammer is a primary tool, but I'm trying to cut a diamond here...
For Esau sold his birthright for just a bowl of beans
While Jacob wrestled with his Angel and won everything.