HGA - within or without?
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So what do you all think?
Is the HGA the Higher or True Self or is it a separate being?Is the HGA an aspect of consciousness (yourself perfected) or is it an external being?
I know Crowley referred to the HGA in both forms and I think Jim said that his response would vary depending on the needs of the specific questioner.
What do you think?
And more importantly, does it matter?
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@Mahanta70 said
"And more importantly, does it matter?"
I say that it's totally irrelevant. Adepthood is marked (or so I've read) by the reception of Briatic consciousness, when it is seen that there is absolutely no separation between any thing and any other thing. It is not a rational vision and the rational mind is not equipped to theorize about it without experiencing it.
Crowley gave different answers to different people in different situations - read Magick Without Tears and then read Liber Samekh and see if there is a difference in tone and what is assumed.
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For now, my perspective is that it is a seperate being and not the higher self. Do I know why, nope. My reason gets befuddled the more I try think of why so,I leave it at that and if one day some new knowledge contradicts it, I'll deal with it then.
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From the point of view of the average adult, who's entire "self" consists of ruach and nephesh (thoughts, feelings, and sensations) then the HGA is very much "without". A big mistake is to equate the HGA with some mental conception that is "within" that concept of self. From what I can see, doing so often results in fanaticism.
Another line of reasoning involves the imaginary line separating me and another person. "Inside" my head, I have my personal monologue that runs during conscious hours. That's personal; others generally don't hear it or share the same monologue. I also have the personal unconscious; which I only get to by retreating from the distracting and limiting factors of conscious thought and sensation. But it's still highly individual, because my dreams are filled with personal memory associations.
When I go further "inward", I get to a point where it's no longer just my personal associations; it's more universally human. It's a collective unconscious. It's "within" in the sense that I travel there via introspection (although the term "within" seems based on an irrelevant assumption). At the same time, I've crossed a line between the individual and the collective, and what I perceive in this realm is no longer "me".
And this realm is yetziratic. The HGA is briatic, and exists further "upstream", or deeper "within", this world of the collective reality.
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
"From the point of view of the average adult, who's entire "self" consists of ruach and nephesh (thoughts, feelings, and sensations) then the HGA is very much "without". A big mistake is to equate the HGA with some mental conception that is "within" that concept of self. From what I can see, doing so often results in fanaticism."
I really like this post, Av; this is something that I think I need to try to remember more often.
I am fairly intelligent and that causes me to get ahead of myself oftentimes - even if I don't know what something is, I tend to grasp things so quickly that I will wrongly assume that I do, in fact, know what's going on, even though I don't.
It's so easy to relegate anything to a logical concept - "oh, my HGA is the seed of my being, and His voice is the thread that runs through my actions? Got it. Don't need to think any deeper on it, I have a mental concept formed and that's that. Anything that contradicts that is incorrect. I'm not fanatic or anything."
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@Ash said
"I really like this post, Av"
Thanks!
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@sphinx666 said
"Av-your post un-befuddled me-thanks, 93!"
To re-befuddle you: they were just the yetziratic reasonings of a person with minimal briatic experience, and are, at best, lies (and at worst, unhelpful lies!).
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@Mahanta70 said
"So what do you all think?
Is the HGA the Higher or True Self or is it a separate being?Is the HGA an aspect of consciousness (yourself perfected) or is it an external being?
I know Crowley referred to the HGA in both forms and I think Jim said that his response would vary depending on the needs of the specific questioner.
What do you think?
And more importantly, does it matter?"
I would like to make a statement first.....your questions are great...NO ONE can EVER find knowledge unless they SEEK first. even a divine gift is gifted cause deemed worthy.
My HGA is interesting and i believe it to be unique. I am my own HGA, we are combined, but at the same time he is a individual. We can operate seperately or at a whole of one force. We do not share thoughts, for they are mine, they are his. I remember his past, as if, it were mine. I know our present for we live it. I "remember" my future, since it is ours.
My HGA and i both always perfer certain things, like the darkness, we work better out of the light and in the night.
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@Qemuel said
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I would like to make a statement first.....your questions are great...NO ONE can EVER find knowledge unless they SEEK first. even a divine gift is gifted cause deemed worthy.My HGA is interesting and i believe it to be unique. I am my own HGA, we are combined, but at the same time he is a individual. We can operate seperately or at a whole of one force. We do not share thoughts, for they are mine, they are his. I remember his past, as if, it were mine. I know our present for we live it. I "remember" my future, since it is ours.
My HGA and i both always perfer certain things, like the darkness, we work better out of the light and in the night."
Thank you for your response. It is not often that someone of your caliber posts such potent words of clear insight regarding the HGA. I have some questions for you if you don't mind. I have not unified with my HGA so I guess I'm stuck with asking questions and doing rituals..
how did you meet your HGA? did you use the bornless ritual?You say you have knoweldge of your HGA's past, do you mean past lives? are they different past lives than the ones that you have had as an individual or are they all shared?
Why do you and your HGA prefer darkness over light?
I hope my questions are not seen as being out of line or disrespectful.
Respectfully,
Larry
seeker of the angels of light and darkness -
@Mahanta70 said
"
Thank you for your response. It is not often that someone of your caliber posts such potent words of clear insight regarding the HGA. I have some questions for you if you don't mind. I have not unified with my HGA so I guess I'm stuck with asking questions and doing rituals..
how did you meet your HGA? did you use the bornless ritual?You say you have knoweldge of your HGA's past, do you mean past lives? are they different past lives than the ones that you have had as an individual or are they all shared?
Why do you and your HGA prefer darkness over light?
I hope my questions are not seen as being out of line or disrespectful.
Respectfully,
Larry
seeker of the angels of light and darkness"I do not perfer rituals at all. I "speak" things into existance. I "see" things into existance". I "Believe" things into existance. A ritual to me would only amplify what I am, who I am, and I would be able to "use" the ones involved in the ritual more effectively.
I do not know many that have joined with thier HGA's, besides myself and Crowley. But I am sure more exist. I did no ritual at all. I always understood that the HGA and myself were connected, and I was 13 years old when it hit me like a ton of bricks. I "accepted" that we were one, I came to terms with understanding. That is the best I can explain it. It is more of a revelation of truth.
How did i meet my HGA? I am gifted/cursed with sight. Since a child I often seen things that were not "there". I was about 13 when I was having a terrible nightmare and my HGA entered my dream and we fought/wrestled. After I was done worn out he said "Be Still". I listened and the nightmare was no longer a thing of terror, but something I realized I was not part of, it was something I was witnessing. That was the first time I heard his words, but I understood than, and now, that he was always talking, just most of the time I was not listening or thought of it as a "inner voice".
My HGA has a past, yes. But you can not consider it a past life. For it to be a past life, one has to die, and he has never died. My life and his life are shared, 2 halves of 2 halves of a whole. We have always been one, time is a interesting thing, it really only exists here in the mortal realm.
We perfer the darkness over the light cause it is easier for us to move and "act". Move, as in, moving between realms and around this world. Act, as in, the act of "Magick". Not all HGA's are like mine. I have found no one living like me either.
Your insight continues to capture my attention. Thanks.